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Forums - Politics Discussion - George Takei’s Ripping Letter to AZ about ‘Turn Away the Gay’ Bill

irstupid said:
Marks said:
Somebody call the WHAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE......oh no imagine that, a state is RESTORING THE FREEDOM to businesses to serve who they want.

Okay I haven't read the bill, so I can only go by what was said in this article. But if all this bill does is allow business owners to discriminate AS THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO...then I have no problem with it.

Okay so say you're a gay guy visiting Arizona. You try to stop in at Restaurant A for a nice dinner but they refuse you service...then tell them to go fuck themselves, and go across the street to Restaurant B, or down the road to Restaurant C....whichever one will serve gays, and give that non-homophobic restaurant owner your money instead!!!

Look, I don't support discrimination or hate. But what I do support is RIGHTS and FREEDOMS of business owners. If they want to be a douchebag and refuse service based on personal hate then so be it....and watch as your business gets negative press, loses reputation, loses customers, and hopefully go out of business. This new bill is actually a good thing for gays, it'll help put homophobic businesses out of practice.

While i do agree with you, it is a slippery slope.  I mean right now we allow business to deny service to people for not wearing shirts, not wearing a tie, waring a baseball cap backwards, ect.  Bascially for not fitting their dress code.

But if we start getting into denying people for religious beliefs, or sexual orientation, how long until we are back onto having white only water fountains, ect.

If this law does get passed I hope for one that the business that refuse gays go out of business. i  hope that the capitlistic envirionment makes this law pointless.  The consumers cast their own vote by not eating or going to establishments that refuse gay entry.  

I'm all for giving business' rights, but I hope that us consumers are smart enough to vote our wallets away from stupid laws.  

Heck let this law pass, then let every business who is stupid enough to deny gays loose a shit ton of money and go out of business.  That would almost be the best.  The law may acutally benefit mankind by putting those idiots out of business and take away thier money.


I certainly agree, it is a slippery slope. Right now it's homosexuals, tomorrow it's hispanics, blacks, etc. Hell there could even be a law where all discrimination is allowed and Black business owners can refuse whites if they want. 

But I'm glad you saw the point I was making, and didn't just call me a homophobe for saying I support this law (in a sense). I hope the true nature of capitalism, and the desire to make money (by having a full hotel, restaurant, etc.) is more important than one's irrational hate of gays. 

I bolded your paragraph that I really agree with! Not only will the businesses that utilize this law lose gay customers...but they will lose straight customers who boycott it. 



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TruckOSaurus said:
My respect for Apple just went up a whole lot: http://business.time.com/2014/02/25/how-apple-went-to-war-over-arizona-anti-gay-bill/

It's really nice to see them take a stand against this state-sanctioned discrimination law.


So basically what this tells us is....

 

Tim cook is a much nicer guy then Steve Jobs, who only wanted to take up for peoples rights when it wouldn't cost him any money.



Kasz216 said:
curl-6 said:
Justagamer said:
Pardon my ignorance, but, what is lgbt? I only have one thing I want to say, I don't beleive a law can exist like this in this day and age, love who you want, it has never bothered me. I have a gay cousin, never bothered me. If there is one thing that had bothered me is this: gay parades.... Seriously, they don't need to go and have a parade to proclaim their sexuality! Straight people don't have straight parades. Just my 2 cents... Maybe it's worth only 1 cent, but, it is what it is.... Not trying to be offensive, that's just how I feal about that one thing in particular.....

LGBT = Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transexual

Well, the prefrered term is just trangender or just trans lately.

As trans status doesn't really correlate with sexual preference.

A Trans man may be attracted to men, may be attracted to women.

Additionally the term reinforces gender with biological gender, which are two different things.

 

So Iot of trans people get offended by everything.

I don't really want to be too insensitive here, but isn't that really the MO? 



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

Kane1389 said:

This is nothing like segregation or jim crow, where institutions and people were forced by the goverment to discriminate against people. This law simply gives buisness owners  the freedome to deny service to someone they dont want have any buisness with. 

And you can fight ''bigotry and discrimination'' on an a federal level, but not on a private level. People should be allowed to have whatever beliefs they want, regardless of how you precieve them

Really? Nothing like segregation? If you're God fearing Christian it's against your religious belief to serve single mothers, divorced people, atheists, agnostics, muslims, jews, pagans, mormons... not just LGBT people. And do you really think that a business owner can afford to express his religious belief and deny sevices to all people against whom Bible has something to say. Of course not. They'll only hate on gays, because it's the most convenient. Like always good Christian hypocrisy.

People are allowed to believe in whatever nonsense they want to believe. That's their PRIVATE right, and that right should stay there and be PRIVATE. Your freedom, doesn't give you right to reduce my FREEDOM. That's the fundamental difference that bigots like yourself don't understand. 



Tom3k said:

Really? Nothing like segregation? If you're God fearing Christian it's against your religious belief to serve single mothers, divorced people, atheists, agnostics, muslims, jews, pagans, mormons... not just LGBT people. And do you really think that a business owner can afford to express his religious belief and deny sevices to all people against whom Bible has something to say. Of course not. They'll only hate on gays, because it's the most convenient. Like always good Christian hypocrisy.

People are allowed to believe in whatever nonsense they want to believe. That's their PRIVATE right, and that right should stay there and be PRIVATE. Your freedom, doesn't give you right to reduce my FREEDOM. That's the fundamental difference that bigots like yourself don't understand.

It's not a big secret that large groups of Christians really like to cherry-pick their stuff when it comes to the Bible huh. Whatever happened to "love thy neighbour" or even "hate the sin, not the sinner". Maybe it's for the better or stoning and the like would be commonplace.

Regarding the gay-parades mentioned before: it's just one day in a year. There are also things like the Mardi Gras and Carnival, let people have their fun those couple of days. I simply do not attend... (Well I did once and it was nice but it's not for me)



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Kane1389 said:
curl-6 said:

You just confirmed what I said. You would be okay with businesses being able to turn away blacks for being black.

You really are amazing. I simply adore how you single out blacks to make me appear racist and a bad person.

No, but seriously, can your strawman sink any lower?

realize from your other comments you have a very limited understand of the United State, it's values, foundation and history.  It’s a direct reference that most would understand from an awful time when people tried legally separate people based on perceived skin color and race.  Most all accept that this was wrong (except for the bigots.)

The point is institutionalized discrimination is wrong.  If you don’t understand that then, I guess you will have to wait till it hits you, your family, or someone you care/know about to understand.

We should not go back to these times.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Justagamer said:
Pardon my ignorance, but, what is lgbt? I only have one thing I want to say, I don't beleive a law can exist like this in this day and age, love who you want, it has never bothered me. I have a gay cousin, never bothered me. If there is one thing that had bothered me is this: gay parades.... Seriously, they don't need to go and have a parade to proclaim their sexuality! Straight people don't have straight parades. Just my 2 cents... Maybe it's worth only 1 cent, but, it is what it is.... Not trying to be offensive, that's just how I feal about that one thing in particular.....

I think you get it.  It's not that gay people will not longer support Arizona business, but most everybody with means will join in a boycott.  Any anti-gay legation is attacking your family (as your cousin is gay.)  It is saying your family has less value than others.  Most people have a gay friend, family member or know someone.

And as far as parades, I've talked to many LGBT people that don't like them either. It's like a frat party, not ever strait person goes to a frat party or a crazy 'spring break'.  As I see it some LGBT people have been treated really poorly - look at how many vicious and cruel things that have been said on this thread alone.  I think some LGBT people need those parades and stuff to feel better about themselves.  Just imagine if you have someone tell you that you were worthless, better off dead, and they hope you get AIDS and die.  It's got to get to anyone after a while.  Standing with others and getting a chance to be yourself has to be a good thing.

I remember a gay friend of mine saying that his boyfriend (I think he was Japan) just so moved he cried at one.  He thought it was so great that it could happen and it meant quite a bit to him.

Also, remember the media looks for the most zany stuff.  Some people make it like halloween.  And others, just people showing others that's who they are.  Like these in Utah: Scout Leaders and Scouts, Mom's and Cops:

 

 

 

 



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

I'm curious if this law would actually effect anything or anyone. Outside of the few documented cases we have, like a bakery not wanted to make a wedding cake for a gay couple and thus closing, I don't think your sexuality comes up when you sit down for a lunch.

I'm just getting hypothetical of course, mostly because my experiences tend to differ greatly from VGC.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

vetoed!
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/politics/arizona-brewer-bill/index.html?hpt=hp_t1



This bill was far worse than turn away the gays. If you read and understand the language of the bill is allows discrimination of _any_ group. Businesses could turn away blacks, whites, gays, republicans, whoever they want. It is also highly unconstitutional.

 

Congrats on the Arizona Governor for seeing it for what it was.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.