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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - The XB1 wasn't ready for launch in 2013

Landguy said:

I think they didn't really plan to release the XB1 in 2013 and just weren't ready.  The stuff that they have fixed with the first update were things that I was amazed weren't there at launch.  I think they planned either a May 2014 or even November 2014 launch.  It seems that they didn't want Sony to get a year head start and just plowed ahead.  The systems tools for the developers weren't ready, even Killer Instinct only had a couple of characters.  They still don't have one Kinect focused game released yet!!!  The Sports Rivals game looks like a pack in game more than a stand alone.  It should have been included from day one.  They don't even have Direct TV/Charter (large satellite and cable providers in the US) support natively yet.  How about 3D Bluray?  Hell, a $50 bluray player can do that!

Just look at the number of countries they have launched in .They seemed to have a problem with the language/localization issue that is stopping further deployment.  Part of it relates to content providers to do the advanced TV features that they are pushing.   The real answer is the KINECT.  The Kinect forced them into a number of system features they weren't really ready to support language wise or media content wise.

They probably could have come closer to the PS4's price 6 months or a year later also.  Had they let Sony release a few more details of their system first, they might have been able to make some changes to better compete tech wise also.  Or atleast, they could have changed their mind on the forced Kinect pack in.

One way to look at it is, they wouldn't have changed the number of sales that the PS4 has, as it sells every unit available even with the XB1 in the marketplace.  Would it have changed things too much to let Sony have the 6 million sold before they launched?  Maybe not, as they have a 2 million lead anyway already.  Had the XB1 been improved somehow spec wise or price wise, they might have been able to keep pace at launch and kept the gap to 3-4 million on a consistant basis.

Either way, I enjoy my XB1, and don't regret buying it at all.  I guess, I have more to look forward to as far as system updates and game optimizations.  It would have been kind of cool to have Titanfall as a launch title though!

Very well put analysis. I agree, I think they wanted Titanfall as a launch title. Hmmm, well too late now. I think they are done for personally. PS4 will win this gen. 



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Landguy said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
binary solo said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The only reason they launched the console in 2013 was because of Sony. The media was following Sony's dev kits and said a long time ago that Sony was prepared well ahead of Microsoft. People think I am joking when I say that Microsoft is only in this industry to distract Sony from gaining ground in multimedia and from affecting the console realm. MS has only worsened the issue. Microsoft doesn't like leaving Sony with too much breathing room because they know in the gaming industry that Sony is a dominant force.

Well MS must be preparing its exit strategy, because Sony is a shell of what it was in 2000 when PS2 launched. And Consoles are no longer a realistic prospect as the entertainment hub of the house. Apple/Google TV, Smart TVs and and tablets are where control of the home is at now. If MS wan't to dominate the not just the living room buyt the whole house they need to ddrop out of consoles fast and focus on the devices that WILL own the future.

In terms of MS's over all strategy for the consumer electronics market Xb one was the past before it even launched.


Consoles do more than what stand alone TV computerized TV's do. Gaming will always have a place as long as there are people looking for fun  and a challenge. If there was anyone who would willingly drop out of the console race, it would be Microsoft. Its Sony and Nintendos bread and butter.

If M$ dropped out of the console business, they would be giving up all hopes of a unified system to deliver content.  That was the whole point of Windows Phone and Windows 8 and Xbox One.  Soon enough, you will be able to purchase a number of games and content that will play and be usable across all of the M$ platforms.

Gaming isn't Sony's main business.  It just happens to be the only thing making any money for them right now.  They too are trying to keep a foothold in the living rooms.  They also recognize that that isn't enough and are working on systems to sell their vast amount of content through all channels on the internet, not just the PS3/PS4.


Stop saying gaming isn't Sony's main business. It has been a major form of profit for them especially in the wake of their issues. A lot of people investing in MS don't like the gaming industry. Sony historically speaking thought the gaming industry was a joke but today it is their bread and butter just like Nintendo. Microsoft could leave at any time just like they did with the Zune. They jump on companies with multimedia products  when they feel threatened.



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
kabamarutr said:
Agreed. Sony's PS4 announcement last February caught them off-guard and started a series of hasty decisions, alterations of plans and politics and confusion regarding the original plan.

More amazing is the fact that Sony was that ready to launch and suffered absolutely no leaks.



True story. It's on video now! :P



This, I stole from grandpa...It's called soap.

reggin_bolas said:
Landguy said:

I think they didn't really plan to release the XB1 in 2013 and just weren't ready.  The stuff that they have fixed with the first update were things that I was amazed weren't there at launch.  I think they planned either a May 2014 or even November 2014 launch.  It seems that they didn't want Sony to get a year head start and just plowed ahead.  The systems tools for the developers weren't ready, even Killer Instinct only had a couple of characters.  They still don't have one Kinect focused game released yet!!!  The Sports Rivals game looks like a pack in game more than a stand alone.  It should have been included from day one.  They don't even have Direct TV/Charter (large satellite and cable providers in the US) support natively yet.  How about 3D Bluray?  Hell, a $50 bluray player can do that!

Just look at the number of countries they have launched in .They seemed to have a problem with the language/localization issue that is stopping further deployment.  Part of it relates to content providers to do the advanced TV features that they are pushing.   The real answer is the KINECT.  The Kinect forced them into a number of system features they weren't really ready to support language wise or media content wise.

They probably could have come closer to the PS4's price 6 months or a year later also.  Had they let Sony release a few more details of their system first, they might have been able to make some changes to better compete tech wise also.  Or atleast, they could have changed their mind on the forced Kinect pack in.

One way to look at it is, they wouldn't have changed the number of sales that the PS4 has, as it sells every unit available even with the XB1 in the marketplace.  Would it have changed things too much to let Sony have the 6 million sold before they launched?  Maybe not, as they have a 2 million lead anyway already.  Had the XB1 been improved somehow spec wise or price wise, they might have been able to keep pace at launch and kept the gap to 3-4 million on a consistant basis.

Either way, I enjoy my XB1, and don't regret buying it at all.  I guess, I have more to look forward to as far as system updates and game optimizations.  It would have been kind of cool to have Titanfall as a launch title though!

Very well put analysis. I agree, I think they wanted Titanfall as a launch title. Hmmm, well too late now. I think they are done for personally. PS4 will win this gen. 


No, this would be a stupid decision.

You people dond´t have a clue how custom IC manufacture work. You can´t just ask for a new dice with a bigger GPU to the foundry and the next day you have a fully functional APU ready to test and code. It takes months for a new IC design to be approved and forged... and it costs hundres of thousands for each minor revision.

The XOne was planned to 2013 since 2011, the first SDKs were distributed at early 2012, with a very similar configuration we ended up with.

One year, or six months delay woudn´t make any good for Microsoft but lose milions in development and market share and software sales.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
Landguy said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
binary solo said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The only reason they launched the console in 2013 was because of Sony. The media was following Sony's dev kits and said a long time ago that Sony was prepared well ahead of Microsoft. People think I am joking when I say that Microsoft is only in this industry to distract Sony from gaining ground in multimedia and from affecting the console realm. MS has only worsened the issue. Microsoft doesn't like leaving Sony with too much breathing room because they know in the gaming industry that Sony is a dominant force.

Well MS must be preparing its exit strategy, because Sony is a shell of what it was in 2000 when PS2 launched. And Consoles are no longer a realistic prospect as the entertainment hub of the house. Apple/Google TV, Smart TVs and and tablets are where control of the home is at now. If MS wan't to dominate the not just the living room buyt the whole house they need to ddrop out of consoles fast and focus on the devices that WILL own the future.

In terms of MS's over all strategy for the consumer electronics market Xb one was the past before it even launched.


Consoles do more than what stand alone TV computerized TV's do. Gaming will always have a place as long as there are people looking for fun  and a challenge. If there was anyone who would willingly drop out of the console race, it would be Microsoft. Its Sony and Nintendos bread and butter.

If M$ dropped out of the console business, they would be giving up all hopes of a unified system to deliver content.  That was the whole point of Windows Phone and Windows 8 and Xbox One.  Soon enough, you will be able to purchase a number of games and content that will play and be usable across all of the M$ platforms.

Gaming isn't Sony's main business.  It just happens to be the only thing making any money for them right now.  They too are trying to keep a foothold in the living rooms.  They also recognize that that isn't enough and are working on systems to sell their vast amount of content through all channels on the internet, not just the PS3/PS4.


Stop saying gaming isn't Sony's main business. It has been a major form of profit for them especially in the wake of their issues. A lot of people investing in MS don't like the gaming industry. Sony historically speaking thought the gaming industry was a joke but today it is their bread and butter just like Nintendo. Microsoft could leave at any time just like they did with the Zune. They jump on companies with multimedia products  when they feel threatened.

Your theory of M$'s fear of Sony is well documented in your comments throughtout many threads.  I disagree with it and that will lead to nowhere for us to comment on each others ideas.



It is near the end of the end....

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Dark_Feanor said:
reggin_bolas said:
Landguy said:

I think they didn't really plan to release the XB1 in 2013 and just weren't ready.  The stuff that they have fixed with the first update were things that I was amazed weren't there at launch.  I think they planned either a May 2014 or even November 2014 launch.  It seems that they didn't want Sony to get a year head start and just plowed ahead.  The systems tools for the developers weren't ready, even Killer Instinct only had a couple of characters.  They still don't have one Kinect focused game released yet!!!  The Sports Rivals game looks like a pack in game more than a stand alone.  It should have been included from day one.  They don't even have Direct TV/Charter (large satellite and cable providers in the US) support natively yet.  How about 3D Bluray?  Hell, a $50 bluray player can do that!

Just look at the number of countries they have launched in .They seemed to have a problem with the language/localization issue that is stopping further deployment.  Part of it relates to content providers to do the advanced TV features that they are pushing.   The real answer is the KINECT.  The Kinect forced them into a number of system features they weren't really ready to support language wise or media content wise.

They probably could have come closer to the PS4's price 6 months or a year later also.  Had they let Sony release a few more details of their system first, they might have been able to make some changes to better compete tech wise also.  Or atleast, they could have changed their mind on the forced Kinect pack in.

One way to look at it is, they wouldn't have changed the number of sales that the PS4 has, as it sells every unit available even with the XB1 in the marketplace.  Would it have changed things too much to let Sony have the 6 million sold before they launched?  Maybe not, as they have a 2 million lead anyway already.  Had the XB1 been improved somehow spec wise or price wise, they might have been able to keep pace at launch and kept the gap to 3-4 million on a consistant basis.

Either way, I enjoy my XB1, and don't regret buying it at all.  I guess, I have more to look forward to as far as system updates and game optimizations.  It would have been kind of cool to have Titanfall as a launch title though!

Very well put analysis. I agree, I think they wanted Titanfall as a launch title. Hmmm, well too late now. I think they are done for personally. PS4 will win this gen. 


No, this would be a stupid decision.

You people dond´t have a clue how custom IC manufacture work. You can´t just ask for a new dice with a bigger GPU to the foundry and the next day you have a fully functional APU ready to test and code. It takes months for a new IC design to be approved and forged... and it costs hundres of thousands for each minor revision.

The XOne was planned to 2013 since 2011, the first SDKs were distributed at early 2012, with a very similar configuration we ended up with.

One year, or six months delay woudn´t make any good for Microsoft but lose milions in development and market share and software sales.

Not having a clue is where you are at.  It has been clear in my OP and comments that I too thought that changing the GPU would not have been an option. 

Either way, losing 50 million up front because of a design change whatever that may have been would be peanuts if you sell 40-50 million less consoles throughout a generation.



It is near the end of the end....

Not having a clue is where you are at.  It has been clear in my OP and comments that I too thought that changing the GPU would not have been an option. 

Either way, losing 50 million up front because of a design change whatever that may have been would be peanuts if you sell 40-50 million less consoles throughout a generation.


No, the losses would be far bigger than 50mi up front.

Sony alone lost more than 3bi with PS3 problems and Microsoft face a similar figure with RROD. Consoles are not easy or cheap things to build, or why do you think there are only 3 major manufacture on the market?

Without competition PS4 could sell way more than 15mi this year (if the price was the same). How could Xbox division would justify investiment 4 major studios building AAA games for a whole year, also the exclusive contrats for Titanfall, Ryse, Dead Rising, Quantun Break and  others?

Of course the XOne was rushed, of course there are things missing, but the 2013 release was the target date as far back as early 2011.



Landguy said:

The 6 month delay would have allowed some hardware changes.  Remember, both Sony and M$ announced the basic system specs almost 6 months before launch.  I think they wouldn't have bothered to change the look of the system, but they could have certainly made some memory changes.  That alone would have had an impact on the overall system performance quite a bit.  They also might have had a chance to change the GPU, but not as likely.  The gap would have been much smaller just with the memory change.

As far as a domination by Sony if they hadn't launched goes.  Haven't they dominated even with the launch of the XB1?  Sony will have sold close to 7 million(or more) units by May 1.  The XB1 will be behind by 3 million or more by that point.  If the had delayed their launch, they could have had the focus on them all alone.  They would have probably closed the gap from 7 million to 3-4 million by Christmas anyway. THey would have been ready to sell the system in more than 13 countries.  Also, they wouldn't be fighting such an uphill battle perception wise.  They would have a lot of heavy hitters for games and the abilities of the machine would have been up to speed with more time to work on all of the software issues.  It would have had a much better ability to "Wow" people with not having to fight Sony's launch PR and Christmas keeping the focus off of it's machine.  They could have probably launched for $50 less too, losing $20 or so per machine vs. making $10-15 now.  Again, making the machine more appealing.  People don't mind spending a little more for a "newer" thing.

The only thing they could have changed is the amount of RAM.. and it would not have made any difference.. RAM is already more than enough.. Changing anything inside the SOC or APU would have needed entire re-validation of the system... I read that Intel go with 6 months validation for all of their chips...  they build 10,000 processor server farm which does automated testing on these chips.. Its not so easy and simple solution.. You are building a chip which you cannot change for 6 - 8 yrs.. so you have to be very extensive on its testing.. Plus how much extra R&D it would have added would really made it worthless effort...

Problem is not about the gap, problem would have been that all the hardcores would have shifted on PS4.. this means many of their friends who might not be that much of gamer would have obviously gotten PS4 too.. and it would have automatically become a default system of choice for multi platform gaming, and you are not realising how much terrible it would have been for MS because multiplatform gaming is the dominant form of gaming now a days. 

Also they would  not have been able to reduce the price, because they are already using DDR3 which was at its lowest price, Blu-Ray and Custom Built APU are also fixed cost and Kinect would have costed them same as its a dedicated pieace of hardware which no one else is using.. they might have saved some 5$ - $10 on network and other chips but i dont think it would have given them much more than that.

Last thing is that XBOX ONE releasing along side PS4 gave them much  more hype and visibility. Launching later would not have given it so much hype. 

Check this link to see the RAM price trend on DDR3

It could only have worked if they have totally re-vision the system and recreated a much powerful box.. 



Dark_Feanor said:

Not having a clue is where you are at.  It has been clear in my OP and comments that I too thought that changing the GPU would not have been an option. 

Either way, losing 50 million up front because of a design change whatever that may have been would be peanuts if you sell 40-50 million less consoles throughout a generation.


No, the losses would be far bigger than 50mi up front.

Sony alone lost more than 3bi with PS3 problems and Microsoft face a similar figure with RROD. Consoles are not easy or cheap things to build, or why do you think there are only 3 major manufacture on the market?

Without competition PS4 could sell way more than 15mi this year (if the price was the same). How could Xbox division would justify investiment 4 major studios building AAA games for a whole year, also the exclusive contrats for Titanfall, Ryse, Dead Rising, Quantun Break and  others?

Of course the XOne was rushed, of course there are things missing, but the 2013 release was the target date as far back as early 2011.

I agree that the number could be much larger than 50 million.  Or, it could be 10 million.  Neither of us have any real idea what it would cost to change only one aspect of a system and delay it's launch 6-12 months.  It doesn't increase the costs to advertsie or even software development costs, as they were costs that would be spent either way.  The cost impact have more to do with contract obligations to suppliers of parts. 

As far as the 15 million lead?  Maybe or maybe not.  Maybe a bunch of the buyers would sit on the fence waiting for the final reveal of the XB1 specs, mayb not.  All of this is speculation and can't be definitive as you seem to imply.  Especially when it comes to release dates...



It is near the end of the end....

Landguy said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Landguy said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
binary solo said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The only reason they launched the console in 2013 was because of Sony. The media was following Sony's dev kits and said a long time ago that Sony was prepared well ahead of Microsoft. People think I am joking when I say that Microsoft is only in this industry to distract Sony from gaining ground in multimedia and from affecting the console realm. MS has only worsened the issue. Microsoft doesn't like leaving Sony with too much breathing room because they know in the gaming industry that Sony is a dominant force.

Well MS must be preparing its exit strategy, because Sony is a shell of what it was in 2000 when PS2 launched. And Consoles are no longer a realistic prospect as the entertainment hub of the house. Apple/Google TV, Smart TVs and and tablets are where control of the home is at now. If MS wan't to dominate the not just the living room buyt the whole house they need to ddrop out of consoles fast and focus on the devices that WILL own the future.

In terms of MS's over all strategy for the consumer electronics market Xb one was the past before it even launched.


Consoles do more than what stand alone TV computerized TV's do. Gaming will always have a place as long as there are people looking for fun  and a challenge. If there was anyone who would willingly drop out of the console race, it would be Microsoft. Its Sony and Nintendos bread and butter.

If M$ dropped out of the console business, they would be giving up all hopes of a unified system to deliver content.  That was the whole point of Windows Phone and Windows 8 and Xbox One.  Soon enough, you will be able to purchase a number of games and content that will play and be usable across all of the M$ platforms.

Gaming isn't Sony's main business.  It just happens to be the only thing making any money for them right now.  They too are trying to keep a foothold in the living rooms.  They also recognize that that isn't enough and are working on systems to sell their vast amount of content through all channels on the internet, not just the PS3/PS4.


Stop saying gaming isn't Sony's main business. It has been a major form of profit for them especially in the wake of their issues. A lot of people investing in MS don't like the gaming industry. Sony historically speaking thought the gaming industry was a joke but today it is their bread and butter just like Nintendo. Microsoft could leave at any time just like they did with the Zune. They jump on companies with multimedia products  when they feel threatened.

Your theory of M$'s fear of Sony is well documented in your comments throughtout many threads.  I disagree with it and that will lead to nowhere for us to comment on each others ideas.

Anyone who has done their reasearch on Microsoft should know about Microsofts issues with Sony or anyone who has endeavors of being a multimedia company. Microsoft has a monopolistic train of thought and they cannot stand competition. Sony wanted nothing to do with Microsoft so Microsoft decided to take them out, especially since Sony threatened the PC market. I have no clue how you can look at Microsofts movements and not seen how almost all of it outside of OS has been a response to the movements of Sony.

The Ex VP of Microsoft. 

Every move Microsoft makes in the gaming industry is primarily focused on downing Sony.

"The main reason was to stop Sony," he said in an interview with IGN.

"You see, Sony and Microsoft... they never had a very friendly relationship, okay? And this wasn't because Microsoft didn't want that."

The way Kempin tells it, Bill Gates himself had concerns that a future PlayStation could evolve into something that might threaten Microsoft's bread and butter, the home PC. And there was an element of unrequited love.

"Sony was always very arm's length with Microsoft. Yeah, they bought Windows for their PCs but when you really take a hard look at that, they were never Microsoft's friend. And Microsoft in a way wanted them to be a friend because they knew they had a lot of things we could have co-operated on because they are, in a way, an entertainment company, you know?"

 

http://whttp://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-02-07-ex-microsoft-vp-xbox-was-to-stop-sonyww.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-02-07-ex-microsoft-vp-xbox-was-to-stop-sony