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Forums - Sports Discussion - Hogan.. Michaels.. Austin.. Rock.. Cena.. Next, Daniel Bryan

bugrimmar said:

Hulkamania didn't start until later. That was a significant amount of time because as you mentioned, territories. Still counts in this example since Bryan has only been solo for 6 months.

Rock was mid-card for a loooong time with the Nation of Domination, hanging around with the IC title in a feud with HHH, etc. He only got the push later on when he got involved with Austin and McMahon.

Michaels wasn't the super super star he became until DX came about, which was much later in his career.

Austin could never get that shot because the McMahon storyline kept forcing him to lose. Bryan is getting the exact same storyline right now with HHH causing him to lose over and over again.

Hulkamania didn't start until later than what? His defeating the Iron Sheik in early '84 was the birth of Hulkamania. Hogan spent like two years in the territories before his first stint in the WWF, and he wasn't even a full time wrestler during that time.

Rock was only in the NOD for about a year. That's not a very long time at all, especially when he was still a rookie who was coming off of a disastrous stint as a face. From greenhorn to WWF champion in three years is the definition of a meteoric rise.

As for Michaels, again your sense of time is probably distorted by your youth as he was in DX for less than a year before he retired for a few years. His career year in terms of a push was '96. But during that year he proved to be so unreliable as a top guy that he was demoted, probably very willingly. Of course he had a long path to being The Man, owing to the fact that he is a small guy who broke in at a time when being a very large guy meant everything. It was only after he upstaged Diesel at WrestleMania XI that Vince fell madly in love with him and decided he was the next "it" boy.

Austin was by far the biggest star the WWF has ever had by the time he started feuding with McMahon, and you shouldn't confuse his being scripted to lose or his not having the belt at a certain point in time (although he had numerous title reigns) with his not being pushed. The whole storyline was that he was constantly being screwed by Vince, so whether he won or not there was no doubt in any fan's mind that he was the top guy and that he should have won. In fact, Austin was so big that putting the belt on him was completely redundant. The belt is in many regards just a prop to say, "Hey, look at this guy! He's the best!" Austin didn't need that.



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You think WWE knows how to make a star. Cute.



mZuzek loves Smeags. 😢

People still watch wrestling? lol.



d21lewis said:
You think WWE knows how to make a star. Cute.

That's true. Vince's genius was to see a path to the mainstreaming of pro wrestling, but he has pitifully few truly homegrown stars to his name. With his dream of monopolization finally achieved, he has no one left whose roster he can raid and the past decade-plus of decline has been the result of that.



D21lewis said all that needs to be said. I dont think the mind of McMahon and the Steph/HHH duo are that far apart. Out of all the people they are going to rise to the top they choose Reigns, the worst of the Shield likely because he is jakked.



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pokoko said:
Quite honestly, there is no reason to give the WWE the benefit of the doubt. Their recent track record has more cases of mismanagement than success stories. The attempt to make The Miz a main event guy, the failure to push Ziggler when he was hot, pushing ADR over and over, squandering Ryback's momentum--there are a lot of mistakes there. Perhaps you still have faith after all of that but I'm afraid I do not.


The irony of that all is that Daniel Bryan is the biggest star the WWE has produced since John Cena. He's bigger than even CM Punk now. So the WWE is doing something right. Winning the Championship doesn't make a star. Getting entire stadiums at other sporting events to chant "Yes! Yes! Yes!" and getting the Super Bowl champs to shout a wrestler out after winning the Super Bowl. That is what a star is. The WWE has made Daniel Bryan a star. 



Daniel Bryan is over, but he's not over to the point that Hogan, Austin, or even Rock were. He has a ways to go.



RVDondaPC said:
pokoko said:
Quite honestly, there is no reason to give the WWE the benefit of the doubt. Their recent track record has more cases of mismanagement than success stories. The attempt to make The Miz a main event guy, the failure to push Ziggler when he was hot, pushing ADR over and over, squandering Ryback's momentum--there are a lot of mistakes there. Perhaps you still have faith after all of that but I'm afraid I do not.


The irony of that all is that Daniel Bryan is the biggest star the WWE has produced since John Cena. He's bigger than even CM Punk now. So the WWE is doing something right. Winning the Championship doesn't make a star. Getting entire stadiums at other sporting events to chant "Yes! Yes! Yes!" and getting the Super Bowl champs to shout a wrestler out after winning the Super Bowl. That is what a star is. The WWE has made Daniel Bryan a star. 

He's a star in spite of the WWE.  He already had fans from his debut in NXT due to his indie exposure.  They fired him when the Nexus became a thing.  After he came back due to fan outrage, the guy showed he could do no wrong.  As a face we loved him.  As a heel, we loved him.  When he turned on AJ, we loved him.  When he won Elimnation Chamber we loved him.  When he lost to Sheamus we loved him.  The guy is just over as hell.  The WWE tried to buy him but the fans wouldn't allow it.  Like they've said in documentaries of The Rock, Austin, HHH, and others--the fans pick who the stars are and the fans are always right.

Thing is, despite doing a lot of things I don't agree the higher ups in the WWE are really quite smart.  I've been watching WWE Network and the various shows on there.  There's one where Sgt. Slaughter, Jim Ross, Michael Hayes, and somebody I can't remember just sit around discussing the business.  The things they say, I just sit there in awe and drink it in like a young student learning from the wise sensei.



mZuzek loves Smeags. 😢

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d21lewis said:

He's a star in spite of the WWE.  He already had fans from his debut in NXT due to his indie exposure.  They fired him when the Nexus became a thing.  After he came back due to fan outrage, the guy showed he could do no wrong.  As a face we loved him.  As a heel, we loved him.  When he turned on AJ, we loved him.  When he won Elimnation Chamber we loved him.  When he lost to Sheamus we loved him.  The guy is just over as hell.  The WWE tried to buy him but the fans wouldn't allow it.  Like they've said in documentaries of The Rock, Austin, HHH, and others--the fans pick who the stars are and the fans are always right.

Thing is, despite doing a lot of things I don't agree the higher ups in the WWE are really quite smart.  I've been watching WWE Network and the various shows on there.  There's one where Sgt. Slaughter, Jim Ross, Michael Hayes, and somebody I can't remember just sit around discussing the business.  The things they say, I just sit there in awe and drink it in like a young student learning from the wise sensei.


That's my favorite show too. Legends of Wrestling. I hope they release more, they have like 40 episodes or so of it that they have shot over the years. I love listening to old wrestlers talk. I've listened to so many interviews and shoot videos that I should have some sort of degree in Wrestling history. I don't enjoy the wrestling business nearly as much as in the territory days and during the monday night wars. 

And you can say it's in spite of the WWE, and initially yeah it probably was them not thinking Bryan couldn't be the top guy at first and were trying to push other wrestlers. But they have put Bryan in 8 PPV title matches over the last 2 years. They also let him pin John Cena and Randy Orton. Their most decorated World champions of the past 10 years for the Title on PPV.