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Forums - Gaming Discussion - It's not about the framerate!

lt_dan_27 on 25 January 2014
theprof00 said:

I don't know how detractors have managed to control a debate to such a point that it no longer makes sense arguing, but it's happened. At this point, both sides are arguing whether you can see the 1080 vs 720 difference, whether fuzziness lends a more cinematic experience, and if too much AA makes things too hard to see.

It's all nonsense.

The argument was never about whether CoD had better shacks, or whether AC4 had "just the right amount of smoke", or if Lara's skin looked 'so lifelike'.

It was about the undeniable FACT of these differences within multiplats PROVES the massive power difference.

People would say, I don't see much of a difference in the resolutions. It doesn't matter what you think...it takes a massive amount of power to go from 720 to 1080. They would think that is a legitimate argument within the context of power! It's like every single new thread that pops up about this is addressing it from such a skewed perspective. And about multiplats no less, where console optimization is likely minimal at best.

Just because you don't think the visual fidelity looks much better, it doesn't mean the capabilities are equal! It doesn't mean that those little differences will be the only difference you'll ever see. Launch multiplat unoptimized ports showing PROVEN difference immediately should tell you that.

I am so tired of reading this garbage everyday. I just want these framerate threads to end. It's so incessant and mindless.

well i'll just leave it at that.


I opened this thread expecting to see another idiot. Everything you said is right. Now maybe 720p doesn't necesarrily look twice as good, but it takes that much more power. Whether xbots like it ot not, the ps4 is about twice as strong. I'm so tired of people saying that the resolution difference. If you can't tell the difference between over 2,073,600 pixels vs 921,600. You're not better than everybody, you just have bad eyes. 



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dsage01 on 25 January 2014

I still enjoy games such as Halo 1, Halo 2, Super Mario 64, Starhawk, Battlefield 2 and most games today even with the most dazzling visuals.



Mr Puggsly on 25 January 2014
theprof00 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Hmmmm? What are you babbling about? Did you respond to the wrong post?

I anticipated the differences between many X1 and PS4 games will be resolution and/or frame rate and its been true thus far.

If they can put a game on PS4, they can put it on X1. The PS4 version will just always have a visual and/or frame rate advantage. At the end of the day, I guarantee the average consumer doesn't care about graphics as much as forum dwellers. Average consumers certainly aren't counting pixels or frames either.

My "babbling" just goes to show what you anticipated is pretty short-sighted. You think these early games are confirming your viewpoint, but it's really just coincidence.


I made an educated guess, you're reaching to give it a negative spin.

I feel like you're anticipating some amazing visuals to come out of the PS4 that trounce the X1. But I assure you this will not be another Xbox vs PS2 in regards to graphics.



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Aielyn on 26 January 2014
theprof00 said:
You're one of the people the OP is addressed at. You think that the minimal differences you see on a visual level on a multiplat is all there is, and that diminishing returns confirms that the power difference really means nothing....confirmed by your own two eyes.

The differences you're seeing now in multiplats are the tip of the iceberg for the differences you'll be seeing later on.

Thanks for telling me what I think, because I am incapable of thinking for myself, and I am incapable of simultaneously understanding both sides of the argument. And I certainly couldn't possibly be trying to impart wisdom upon you about why those on the other side say what they say.

I particularly like the part where you suggest that minimal differences now will necessarily become bigger differences later. You'll have to let me know how to be psychic like you, because it would be so great to know what the future holds with such certainty.



kayoss on 26 January 2014
TruckOSaurus said:
Xen said:
TruckOSaurus said:
theprof00 said:

Why did you bother showing them side by side multiplat resolution comparisons in the first place?
I think youre also distorting my message.
Im not saying go out there and praise ps4. Im saying stop talking nonsense.
Jet li could not take bruce lee ot jackie vhan in a fight simply because they look similar.

Jet Li couldn't take Bruce Lee in a fight mainly because Bruce Lee is dead.

Bruce Lee couldn't take Jet Li in a fight mainly because Bruce Lee is dead.

I guess it does make more sense like that.

I guess we have to wait until jet li is dead to find out.



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Kane1389 on 26 January 2014
RazorDragon said:
theprof00 said:

You're one of the people the OP is addressed at. You think that the minimal differences you see on a visual level on a multiplat is all there is, and that diminishing returns confirms that the power difference really means nothing....confirmed by your own two eyes.

The differences you're seeing now in multiplats are the tip of the iceberg for the differences you'll be seeing later on.


Both consoles run on the same CPU, have same GPU architecture(kinda) and both will get optimised in the future, so it's not like the difference will be bigger when PS4 games get optimised because X1 games will also get optimised. The difference will be the same as it is right now in multiplatform games.


Not true, the games so far have all been cross gen, fairly easy to handle (except for Wii U). Once more demanding games come out, the difference in power will be more noticable, as always



RazorDragon on 26 January 2014
Kane1389 said:
RazorDragon said:
theprof00 said:

You're one of the people the OP is addressed at. You think that the minimal differences you see on a visual level on a multiplat is all there is, and that diminishing returns confirms that the power difference really means nothing....confirmed by your own two eyes.

The differences you're seeing now in multiplats are the tip of the iceberg for the differences you'll be seeing later on.


Both consoles run on the same CPU, have same GPU architecture(kinda) and both will get optimised in the future, so it's not like the difference will be bigger when PS4 games get optimised because X1 games will also get optimised. The difference will be the same as it is right now in multiplatform games.


Not true, the games so far have all been cross gen, fairly easy to handle (except for Wii U). Once more demanding games come out, the difference in power will be more noticable, as always


Not really. Cross gen games aren't optimised and are running quite badly considering they should be "fairly easy to handle", if they try to get better graphics at playable framerates engines will need to be adapted to use the strenghts of both consoles. Since CPUs are the same and GPUs too(kinda, since XOne has ESRAM, so that'll need to be worked out), optimizations will work similarly on both consoles, therefore, differences should be the same.



theprof00 on 29 January 2014
Aielyn said:
theprof00 said:
You're one of the people the OP is addressed at. You think that the minimal differences you see on a visual level on a multiplat is all there is, and that diminishing returns confirms that the power difference really means nothing....confirmed by your own two eyes.

The differences you're seeing now in multiplats are the tip of the iceberg for the differences you'll be seeing later on.

Thanks for telling me what I think, because I am incapable of thinking for myself, and I am incapable of simultaneously understanding both sides of the argument. And I certainly couldn't possibly be trying to impart wisdom upon you about why those on the other side say what they say.

I particularly like the part where you suggest that minimal differences now will necessarily become bigger differences later. You'll have to let me know how to be psychic like you, because it would be so great to know what the future holds with such certainty.

Oops, I meant to apologize for this a few days ago, but I see I missed it.

Your post was really just trying to be informative.

I guess, (I'm sorry) it just kind of seemed patronizing, like I hadn't considered something so obvious as diminishing returns.

To really respond correctly to your post, you're right about diminishing returns. Despite a massive difference in power, at a certain level, a massive difference results in very little visual difference. What my point was, especially in the OP....is that we shouldn't be looking at these visual aspects of the games and confirming that the massive power difference is negligible. The current visual differences is merely coming from settings calibration. Ie; you have a pc game. Some computers can run it at better settings, but it's still the same game. A console is a specially customized and optimized pc. AMD has confirmed that the APUs in both systems are not off the shelf. They are specialized. Tailor made. They will require 'optimized software' to take advantage of these systems. Games with last gen platforms as lead hardware shouldn't really be what we use for comparison. Notice that all next-gen exclusives look and run better than the multiplats (asscreed, cod, bf4, etc).

Secondly, most major devs are using the ps4 as their lead platform, meaning the x1 will be receiving ports via engine. This will inevitably result in non-optimized software. It will be like last gen, where exclusives really show how much better a system can perform versus multiplats (ps3).

With the combination of optimized ps4, unoptimized x1, power difference, massive RAM difference, you will be seeing a bigger difference than now. I'm not saying I can predict the future, but I can see where potentials are not being met.



Kane1389 on 30 January 2014
RazorDragon said:
Kane1389 said:
RazorDragon said:
theprof00 said:

You're one of the people the OP is addressed at. You think that the minimal differences you see on a visual level on a multiplat is all there is, and that diminishing returns confirms that the power difference really means nothing....confirmed by your own two eyes.

The differences you're seeing now in multiplats are the tip of the iceberg for the differences you'll be seeing later on.


Both consoles run on the same CPU, have same GPU architecture(kinda) and both will get optimised in the future, so it's not like the difference will be bigger when PS4 games get optimised because X1 games will also get optimised. The difference will be the same as it is right now in multiplatform games.


Not true, the games so far have all been cross gen, fairly easy to handle (except for Wii U). Once more demanding games come out, the difference in power will be more noticable, as always


Not really. Cross gen games aren't optimised and are running quite badly considering they should be "fairly easy to handle", if they try to get better graphics at playable framerates engines will need to be adapted to use the strenghts of both consoles. Since CPUs are the same and GPUs too(kinda, since XOne has ESRAM, so that'll need to be worked out), optimizations will work similarly on both consoles, therefore, differences should be the same.

In Tomb Raider's case, it should have been easier to optimise it for Xbone instead of PS4*, yet it still failed significatly in resolution, framerate and textures. And GPU is most certanly not the, PS4's is conisderably more powerfull and not burdened as much by OS, and it has a superior RAM to go with it, not to mention is also easier to work with. 

*What's curious from our perspective is that United Front Games on Xbox One would have benefited from a reasonably straightforward porting process from the original PC DirectX 11 code since both platforms use the same API, while Nixxes would have needed to translate the original PC version across to the PS4's LibGNM API - not exactly a walk in the park based on this presentation from Ubisoft Reflections, who are handling the PS4 version of The Crew, ported across from the PC DirectX 11 codebase. Another development source we reached out to suggests that the DX11 'driver' for the Xbox One still requires a lot of work.


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-tomb-raider-definitive-performance-analysis