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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Seriously, Nintendo is not THAT Important

Ocilayton said:
To your third statement I will say this: I have played many games by many developers. NO ONE can top nintendo when their at their best. See Mario Galaxy A Link Between Words. and Ocarina of Time.

Because most developers usually don't attempt to develop a game similar to those.  I could list games I personally think are better, and most people would agree on them being good games, maybe even better, and I'd receive a counter that "that's not at all like [x]."

As great of a game as Ocarina of Time is, it's not that it hasn't already been dethroned by a few games since it's been released, it's that no one who is a Nintendo fan will admit to it.  You can go ahead and point out that Metacritic has the remake sitting at 94, not 99 like it originally received, but also many of those scores were perfect to appease fans, rather than the game actually being perfect. There are many portions of Ocarina of Time that are flawed, the incredibly slow pacing of the early parts of the game as well as some others, the controls, while very good even today, have some noticeable issues, etc.  The amount of flaws the game has yet it receives all those perfect scores.

A game like Darksiders comes along and gets called out on each and every one of its flaws no matter the review.  I'm not going to say Darksiders is a better game, but I am going to say it's not fair that one publisher gets so many free rides that people ignore their games' problems because of all the fan backlash they know they'd get if they didn't.



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I really cant agree with your post, and here is why.
(1) Sony's 1st party line up out matches Nintendo's in my opinion. Sony has all the genre bases cover, and not only that, their 1st games are all outstanding.

Action adventure - Uncharted/ Ratchet & Clank
Racing - Gran Turismo/ Motorstorm/ Wipeout/ ModNation Racer
1st Person Shooter - Killzone/ Resistance
Shooters - M.A.G/ Starhawk/ Socom
Action - God Of War/ inFAMOUS/ Twisted Metal
Platforming - LBP/ Sly Cooper
Sports - MLB:The Show

And every year we see a vast array of unique ip's come to Playstation. This year alone we got,
Beyond Two Souls, Puppeteer, The Last Of Us and Ni No Kuni.
All of which were well received by gamer's and reviewers alike.

I do think that Nintendo has its place in gaming. Lets be honets here,They do have a knack of creating games that kids just love, but when it comes to pushing technology within their consoles, their dead last in that department.
15 years ago you could get away with the whole "the strongest consoles have not won a generation ".BS. But in this era that we are in now, with smartphones, tablets, pc's all being super powerful, the video game console needs to keep up. There is no reason for Nintendo to not create a console that is on par with the other guys.

There are always going to be the gamer's that want super massive graphically powerful games and the ones that are just happy with ok graphics and stellar gameplay. But we need to give developers the machines to create both.

I do agree with you that they are not what some make them out to be.
I haven't bought a Nintendo console for myself since the Super Nintendo, and frankly, I'm very happy.



curl-6 said:
Mythmaker1 said:  

3. Nintendo makes the best games, period. I can only imagine that the ones pushing this idea either have very narrow interests or very little exposure. Nintendo makes fun, highly polished games, but they aren't the only ones, and many of those other fun, highly polished games have the depth and maturity (actually maturity, not M-rated, etc..) that Nintendo games often lack. I'm not saying that Nintendo needs depth and maturity, there's nothing wrong with what they make, but the lack of these does not make their games any better either. And maybe, every once in a while, when the moon is full, and the stars are aligned, they put out a mediocre title, or even a flat-out bad game.

So much incorrect assumption here.

I do not have narrow interests or little exposure. I enjoy everything from FPS games to platformers to racers, and I've owned and enjoyed non-Nintendo consoles in the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th gens.

And I yet I still hold that Nintendo make the best games in the industry bar none.

That's you. Tastes are not an universal measure of quality.



leyendax69 said:
curl-6 said:
Mythmaker1 said:  

3. Nintendo makes the best games, period. I can only imagine that the ones pushing this idea either have very narrow interests or very little exposure. Nintendo makes fun, highly polished games, but they aren't the only ones, and many of those other fun, highly polished games have the depth and maturity (actually maturity, not M-rated, etc..) that Nintendo games often lack. I'm not saying that Nintendo needs depth and maturity, there's nothing wrong with what they make, but the lack of these does not make their games any better either. And maybe, every once in a while, when the moon is full, and the stars are aligned, they put out a mediocre title, or even a flat-out bad game.

So much incorrect assumption here.

I do not have narrow interests or little exposure. I enjoy everything from FPS games to platformers to racers, and I've owned and enjoyed non-Nintendo consoles in the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th gens.

And I yet I still hold that Nintendo make the best games in the industry bar none.

That's you. Tastes are not an universal measure of quality.

There is no universal measure of quality.



Look at it this way, if you're making a anti-Nintendo thread on saturday afternoon they must be important to you.



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

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curl-6 said:
leyendax69 said:
curl-6 said:
Mythmaker1 said:  

3. Nintendo makes the best games, period. I can only imagine that the ones pushing this idea either have very narrow interests or very little exposure. Nintendo makes fun, highly polished games, but they aren't the only ones, and many of those other fun, highly polished games have the depth and maturity (actually maturity, not M-rated, etc..) that Nintendo games often lack. I'm not saying that Nintendo needs depth and maturity, there's nothing wrong with what they make, but the lack of these does not make their games any better either. And maybe, every once in a while, when the moon is full, and the stars are aligned, they put out a mediocre title, or even a flat-out bad game.

So much incorrect assumption here.

I do not have narrow interests or little exposure. I enjoy everything from FPS games to platformers to racers, and I've owned and enjoyed non-Nintendo consoles in the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th gens.

And I yet I still hold that Nintendo make the best games in the industry bar none.

That's you. Tastes are not an universal measure of quality.

There is no universal measure of quality.

It's just an expression. What I meant is, if you think Nintendo's games are better than the rest of industry... ok. But Nintendo fans usually say that like a general consensus.



Sony's gaming division is not that important

MS's gaming division is not that important

Steam is not that important

Overall the world will live happy without the video games, they can't without movies, music, etc. Unless you take Candy Crush out of people's life, that will cause some riots.



Nintendo and PC gamer

leyendax69 said:

It's just an expression. What I meant is, if you think Nintendo's games are better than the rest of industry... ok. But Nintendo fans usually say that like a general consensus.

Well, it tends to be one of the reasons they're fans in the first place. ;)



Mr Khan said:
Points 1 and 2 are valid, and point 3 is all a matter of taste (although history helps to demonstrate that you're largely incorrect). The industry certainly kept growing even when Nintendo was doing poorly (though i still contend we'll reach a plateau this generation).

The key to Nintendo's importance in the industry isn't that they are the *only* one innovating, certainly not. Innovation happens all the time and there are few publishers (outside the shovelware pushers) who can say that they've never upset the formula either in terms of game design in some genre, or business model, etc. The key is that nobody else pursues the kinds of games Nintendo pursues, or does so with such vigour. Sony commendably makes an effort in high-quality, retail-grade platformers, though cannot quite capture the mystique of Mario, DK, or Kirby. Ubisoft keeps Rayman around (though for how much longer after what Legends sold?). Nobody consistently puts their best foot forward in games that aren't violent or adult-oriented in some form (unless you're talking about sports or racing games), so Nintendo's loss would leave a large gap in the industry, similar to if Disney went belly-up tomorrow (and, for the sake of argument, Pixar went down in flames with them), there's nobody that can quite replace their imaginative brand of family entertainment or overall focus on quality in their specific field. Moviegoing, even family movies, would persist, but be noticeably diminished for quite some time.

To compare in terms of the "absence of Nintendo" factor, if Activision left the industry altogether, there would still be military shooters. If Capcom left, there would still be zombie action games and fighting games (though that would be a hard blow to the already-anemic genre) and ARPGs. If EA left, 2K would fill the sports gap. If 2K and Rockstar disappeared, you could still get open-world crime games.

Who replaces Mario? Who replaces Pokemon, Zelda, Metroid, or Kirby? This is where the difference lies.

The rebuttals to point 1 and point 2 (while acknowledging the validity of your arguments, to be sure) lay the grounds for rebuttal to point three. Nintendo's pursuit of basically neglected genres means that for people who like these game-types and are gaming largely amongst them alone (yo!), there's really no true alternative. I can and do enjoy non-Nintendo games of diverse types, but would I really enjoy *gaming*, as a whole, with Nintendo out of the picture?

I was all prepared to type up a long spiel...and then I read this. Thank you for saving me the trouble. This is spot on. :)



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Mr Khan said:
Points 1 and 2 are valid, and point 3 is all a matter of taste (although history helps to demonstrate that you're largely incorrect). The industry certainly kept growing even when Nintendo was doing poorly (though i still contend we'll reach a plateau this generation).

The key to Nintendo's importance in the industry isn't that they are the *only* one innovating, certainly not. Innovation happens all the time and there are few publishers (outside the shovelware pushers) who can say that they've never upset the formula either in terms of game design in some genre, or business model, etc. The key is that nobody else pursues the kinds of games Nintendo pursues, or does so with such vigour. Sony commendably makes an effort in high-quality, retail-grade platformers, though cannot quite capture the mystique of Mario, DK, or Kirby. Ubisoft keeps Rayman around (though for how much longer after what Legends sold?). Nobody consistently puts their best foot forward in games that aren't violent or adult-oriented in some form (unless you're talking about sports or racing games), so Nintendo's loss would leave a large gap in the industry, similar to if Disney went belly-up tomorrow (and, for the sake of argument, Pixar went down in flames with them), there's nobody that can quite replace their imaginative brand of family entertainment or overall focus on quality in their specific field. Moviegoing, even family movies, would persist, but be noticeably diminished for quite some time.

To compare in terms of the "absence of Nintendo" factor, if Activision left the industry altogether, there would still be military shooters. If Capcom left, there would still be zombie action games and fighting games (though that would be a hard blow to the already-anemic genre) and ARPGs. If EA left, 2K would fill the sports gap. If 2K and Rockstar disappeared, you could still get open-world crime games.

Who replaces Mario? Who replaces Pokemon, Zelda, Metroid, or Kirby? This is where the difference lies.

The rebuttals to point 1 and point 2 (while acknowledging the validity of your arguments, to be sure) lay the grounds for rebuttal to point three. Nintendo's pursuit of basically neglected genres means that for people who like these game-types and are gaming largely amongst them alone (yo!), there's really no true alternative. I can and do enjoy non-Nintendo games of diverse types, but would I really enjoy *gaming*, as a whole, with Nintendo out of the picture?

Just for reference, with regards to point 3, does history refer to sales, reception, or endurance?

I'm not as conversant with the Film industry as I'd like to be, but I'd think that Dreamworks would actually be in a pretty good position to fill in for Pixar, at least, though Disney is a much more difficult beast because they're such a far-reaching conglomerate. Their family films are actually largely overshadowed by their partnership with Marvel in recent years. I'd actually say someone like Warner Brothers would be in a good position to take over for them, given the way they've been working with DC the last decade or so.

In terms of the gaming industry, Metroid and Kirby are iconic, but not really irreplaceable. Their releases are infrequent enough and at the lower end, sales wise, that they wouldn't leave as much of a void. Mario and Zelda, however, are different, thought he latter doesn't really define its genre anymore. Zelda is an institution, but there are a lot of third-person medieval action games with puzzle elements. Its important more because of its active fanbase, rather than its actual importance as an institution (only supposing here, the precedent doesn't really exist). It would definitely affect the industry, but probably not in an immediate, business sense.

Mario is probably the only one that really sticks, but I think a lot of the way other publishers neglect the genre is because Mario has a stranglehold on it. Everyone knows you can't compete with Mario, so no one tries. Yet look at all of the indie-platforming games that have flooded the market in recent years, outside of that competition. For a couple of years, there might be a void, but I don't expect it would have serious long-term consequences. It's sort of like World of Warcraft. If WoW fell tomorrow, just about every company would leap at the chance to take its place.

As fara s things go, you're response is probably the strongest rebuttal to my argument, and I can't write it off. I don't think I really agree with it, but it's a hard nut to crack without more research on my part, I think.



I believe in honesty, civility, generosity, practicality, and impartiality.