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Forums - Sony - So what's the big deal with Playstation Now?

jacks81x on 08 January 2014
archer9234 said:
jacks81x said:
archer9234 said:

All under controlled conditions. I rather wait till normal people get a hold of this. Rather then Sony have things all setup at optium upload and download rates. It be like compairing people who live 1 mile from your ISP main building. VS people 50+ miles away. My ISP offers grabage upload rate (1Mbps, Down 20, used to be .5Mbps) which hampers Skype. Ofcourse I'm gonna be worried about game input lag.


There's no point in even trying this service if your internet connection is subpar.  If you're having problems with even Skype, you're probably not even able to stream HD movies from Netflix without lag.  Complaints are going to come even if the service is great, because there will be people who try the service whose broadband speed doesn't meet the minimum requirements.  It's like someone who buys Crysis 3, tries to run it on a crappy PC, then complains about it.  What're you supposed to do with people like that?  

The thing is I can upgrade my PC. I can't upgrade my ISP. They do not offer anything better. Which is the bad part of streaming stuff.

And that's unfortunate.  My area at least has the option of Cable or FIOS.  



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bugrimmar on 08 January 2014
jacks81x said:
bugrimmar said:
jacks81x said:
1. The Games

2. Because OnLive failed. Do you think Sony would come out this confidently if they didn't solve the problems that OnLive encountered?

3. Technology advances very quickly. You don't actually think Sony is using the same 3 year old technology that OnLive was using right?

4, The key to the solution is not to overhaul the network infrastructure in the US, because that's not happening anytime soon nor would a company like Sony have anything to do with that. Rather, it is to develop new ways of compressing data such that it can be delivered under low bandwidth. This is exactly what YouTube is doing when they announced that they would start streaming 4K videos in the coming months. Our bandwidth isn't improving the next few months. So how is that possible when 4K videos are 4 times the size of a 1080P video? Answer: better compression and faster/more efficient video decoding.


1. Assumption - You don't even know what games and how many will be offered.

2. Assumption - Sony has failed with gadgets and features in the past.

3. Assumption - Sony is using Blu-ray in PS4, which is at least 7 years old.

4. Assumption - Which compression and decoding technology are you talking about?

All of your reasons are assumptions and none are based on facts. The only fact in this whole case is that Onlive and Playstation Now are identical services. That's it.

1.  Fact - It will have Beyond, TLOU, Puppeteer, and GOW: Ascension.  None of which OnLive had.

2.  Fact - they have failed AND succeeded in the past.  So unless you can see the future, you can't tell me that it's a fact that this will fail.

3.  Fact - Blu-ray is still the standard high-def medium today, whereas data compression and streaming technology have improved in the last few years.

4.  Fact - Sony hasn't announced that so obviously I don't know the technology on which Gaikai is built upon, but one thing we do know is that Sony loves to use proprietary technology.  So my "guess" is that they're not using the same technology that OnLive was using.

5.  I did not say as fact that this will succeed.  This is merely my opinion.  If you feel otherwise, that's your perogative.  No one is pointing a gun at your head to support this.  I will try this when this becomes available to the general public.  If it sucks, I'll no problem saying that it sucks.  However, I'm not going to be the one who say categorically that something that's not even out for another 6 months will fail.  

1. By saying "The Games", you basically stated that there will be a lot of them. 4 games is all you could come up with to justify your "The Games" point? Assumption.

2. By saying that "Sony will likely have solved the problems", you assumed that in this particular case, they have solved the problems, without bothering to think of the position that they haven't solved the problems, and I merely pointed out that in other situations, the company has shown that they have failed to do so. Assumption.

3. By saying that "Sony will likely not be using 3 year old technology", you assumed that Sony indeed is using newer technology, which you do not have any proof of whatsoever, and I merely pointed out that in the past, the company has shown that they are willing to use older technology, and therefore, this new product may very well be using older technology. Assumption.

4. Lol, you basically admitted that you're GUESSING.

Do you even know the definition of fact and assumption? All of your points are guesses and assumptions and I'm merely pointing that out.



jacks81x on 08 January 2014
bugrimmar said:
jacks81x said:
bugrimmar said:
jacks81x said:
1. The Games

2. Because OnLive failed. Do you think Sony would come out this confidently if they didn't solve the problems that OnLive encountered?

3. Technology advances very quickly. You don't actually think Sony is using the same 3 year old technology that OnLive was using right?

4, The key to the solution is not to overhaul the network infrastructure in the US, because that's not happening anytime soon nor would a company like Sony have anything to do with that. Rather, it is to develop new ways of compressing data such that it can be delivered under low bandwidth. This is exactly what YouTube is doing when they announced that they would start streaming 4K videos in the coming months. Our bandwidth isn't improving the next few months. So how is that possible when 4K videos are 4 times the size of a 1080P video? Answer: better compression and faster/more efficient video decoding.


1. Assumption - You don't even know what games and how many will be offered.

2. Assumption - Sony has failed with gadgets and features in the past.

3. Assumption - Sony is using Blu-ray in PS4, which is at least 7 years old.

4. Assumption - Which compression and decoding technology are you talking about?

All of your reasons are assumptions and none are based on facts. The only fact in this whole case is that Onlive and Playstation Now are identical services. That's it.

1.  Fact - It will have Beyond, TLOU, Puppeteer, and GOW: Ascension.  None of which OnLive had.

2.  Fact - they have failed AND succeeded in the past.  So unless you can see the future, you can't tell me that it's a fact that this will fail.

3.  Fact - Blu-ray is still the standard high-def medium today, whereas data compression and streaming technology have improved in the last few years.

4.  Fact - Sony hasn't announced that so obviously I don't know the technology on which Gaikai is built upon, but one thing we do know is that Sony loves to use proprietary technology.  So my "guess" is that they're not using the same technology that OnLive was using.

5.  I did not say as fact that this will succeed.  This is merely my opinion.  If you feel otherwise, that's your perogative.  No one is pointing a gun at your head to support this.  I will try this when this becomes available to the general public.  If it sucks, I'll no problem saying that it sucks.  However, I'm not going to be the one who say categorically that something that's not even out for another 6 months will fail.  

1. By saying "The Games", you basically stated that there will be a lot of them. 4 games is all you could come up with to justify your "The Games" point? Assumption.

2. By saying that "Sony will likely have solved the problems", you assumed that in this particular case, they have solved the problems, without bothering to think of the position that they haven't solved the problems, and I merely pointed out that in other situations, the company has shown that they have failed to do so. Assumption.

3. By saying that "Sony will likely not be using 3 year old technology", you assumed that Sony indeed is using newer technology, which you do not have any proof of whatsoever, and I merely pointed out that in the past, the company has shown that they are willing to use older technology, and therefore, this new product may very well be using older technology. Assumption.

4. Lol, you basically admitted that you're GUESSING.

Do you even know the definition of fact and assumption? All of your points are guesses and assumptions and I'm merely pointing that out.


You're asking our opinions on why Playstation.Now is a big deal to us.  I gave you my opinions.  I'm not an insider.  I don't know all the details about the service.  I can only speak for myself why I think it's a big deal.  I don't speak for you and I don't speak for anyone else here.  If you think that it's going to be exactly the same as OnLive, you're more than welcome to.  I don't agree with you, but I'm also not here to convince you.  It's not out for another 6 months.  No one here knows exactly  what the final product will be like.  And that I can say it's a FACT.   Either way, we'll find out in time. 



archer9234 on 08 January 2014
kitler53 said:
archer9234 said:
...

All under controlled conditions. I rather wait till normal people get a hold of this. Rather then Sony have things all setup at optium upload and download rates. It be like compairing people who live 1 mile from your ISP main building. VS people 50+ miles away. My ISP offers grabage upload rate (1Mbps, Down 20, used to be .5Mbps) which hampers Skype. Ofcourse I'm gonna be worried about game input lag.


i, a normal person with decent internet, used gaikai to play rayman orgins right after the acquisition was announced.   it worked great, far better than my test with onlive.

Was this tested in your personal houses net? And it also needs to be under fully loaded servers. Real tests need all real life conditions. Which is why I don't like controlled conditions. I want PS Now to work. That means I can ditch buying future PS consoles.



bugrimmar on 08 January 2014
jacks81x said:

You're asking our opinions on why Playstation.Now is a big deal to us.  I gave you my opinions.  I'm not an insider.  I don't know all the details about the service.  I can only speak for myself why I think it's a big deal.  I don't speak for you and I don't speak for anyone else here.  If you think that it's going to be exactly the same as OnLive, you're more than welcome to.  I don't agree with you, but I'm also not here to convince you.  It's not out for another 6 months.  No one here knows exactly  what the final product will be like.  And that I can say it's a FACT.   Either way, we'll find out in time. 


Exactly. That means, you admit, that all the things you said are your opinions, and therefore your assumptions.

So I just find it funny that you put "Fact" in front of all your points in response to mine, when you already know that you know nothing about this service as well.

"No one here knows exactly  what the final product will be like.  And that I can say it's a FACT." --> So that further reinforces the fact that your points were indeed assumptions, since you don't know anything about the product, right?

 

Anyway, it's good we've established together that you're just full of assumptions. moving on..



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jacks81x on 08 January 2014
archer9234 said:
kitler53 said:
archer9234 said:
...

All under controlled conditions. I rather wait till normal people get a hold of this. Rather then Sony have things all setup at optium upload and download rates. It be like compairing people who live 1 mile from your ISP main building. VS people 50+ miles away. My ISP offers grabage upload rate (1Mbps, Down 20, used to be .5Mbps) which hampers Skype. Ofcourse I'm gonna be worried about game input lag.


i, a normal person with decent internet, used gaikai to play rayman orgins right after the acquisition was announced.   it worked great, far better than my test with onlive.

Was this tested in your personal houses net? And it also needs to be under fully loaded servers. Real tests need all real life conditions. Which is why I don't like controlled conditions.

I tried Remote Play at my Folks' home 65 miles away and it worked fine.  We both have FIOS so I'm sure the speeds were well above the minimum requirement. 



superchunk on 08 January 2014

1. Onlive game library was just ok. Sometimes not getting big stuff.
2. PS games specifically have some appeal. TLOU alone makes me want to give it a try.
3. Onlive pricing wasn't really all that great. Sony needs to pay attention to Netflix. Offer a subscription rate for access to everything. Yes, onlive has something similar... but for really meh content only.

Keep in mind at this point it seems this is just a merge of what Netflix and Nintendo (VC) have done in their own respective areas. Difference is Sony has a large VC type library plus a large movie/music library as well.

Imagine different tiers.
Games only, Movies only, Music only or some combination of the three. All for one price point.

Only issue I see is if its only old games. Then it needs to be cheap. But if it gets new games too, then it could cost a lot more or new games would only be priced individually, but that would cause an issue vs the PS4.

It'll be interesting to see more.



jacks81x on 08 January 2014
bugrimmar said:
jacks81x said:

You're asking our opinions on why Playstation.Now is a big deal to us.  I gave you my opinions.  I'm not an insider.  I don't know all the details about the service.  I can only speak for myself why I think it's a big deal.  I don't speak for you and I don't speak for anyone else here.  If you think that it's going to be exactly the same as OnLive, you're more than welcome to.  I don't agree with you, but I'm also not here to convince you.  It's not out for another 6 months.  No one here knows exactly  what the final product will be like.  And that I can say it's a FACT.   Either way, we'll find out in time. 


Exactly. That means, you admit, that all the things you said are your opinions, and therefore your assumptions.

So I just find it funny that you put "Fact" in front of all your points in response to mine, when you already know that you know nothing about this service as well.

"No one here knows exactly  what the final product will be like.  And that I can say it's a FACT." --> So that further reinforces the fact that your points were indeed assumptions, since you don't know anything about the product, right?

 

Anyway, it's good we've established together that you're just full of assumptions. moving on..

Well not really.  The ones that I did put as facts are facts.  We know those 4 games were announced at CES yesterday.  We know Sony have failed and succeeded with various ventures in the past.  We know BD is still the standard medium for HD.  And we know that Sony hasn't released all the details on the service.

But yes, moving on...



kitler53 on 08 January 2014
archer9234 said:
kitler53 said:
archer9234 said:
...

All under controlled conditions. I rather wait till normal people get a hold of this. Rather then Sony have things all setup at optium upload and download rates. It be like compairing people who live 1 mile from your ISP main building. VS people 50+ miles away. My ISP offers grabage upload rate (1Mbps, Down 20, used to be .5Mbps) which hampers Skype. Ofcourse I'm gonna be worried about game input lag.


i, a normal person with decent internet, used gaikai to play rayman orgins right after the acquisition was announced.   it worked great, far better than my test with onlive.

Was this tested in your personal houses net? And it also needs to be under fully loaded servers.

i tried it in my home (ATT DSL; pay for 5Mbs but typically get 1-2Mbs).   impossible for me to know if it was fully loaded but sony/gaikai said immediatly following the acquisition announcement there was a huge spike in usage (from guys like me that wanted to know what the hell sony bought).

they had dozens of games up at the time.  i played rayman orgins specfically because that was the game i was playing in vita at the time so it was a good test imo.  there was a noticable hit in resolution but i couldn't feel any lag.  i'm sure there was more lag than on vita but the amount of lag (or lack thereof) was very impressive to me.

 

listen, there will be growing pains.  there always are.  that's the reason there are beta periods.  ..but the technology is real, practical, and impressive.



bugrimmar on 08 January 2014
jacks81x said:
bugrimmar said:
jacks81x said:

You're asking our opinions on why Playstation.Now is a big deal to us.  I gave you my opinions.  I'm not an insider.  I don't know all the details about the service.  I can only speak for myself why I think it's a big deal.  I don't speak for you and I don't speak for anyone else here.  If you think that it's going to be exactly the same as OnLive, you're more than welcome to.  I don't agree with you, but I'm also not here to convince you.  It's not out for another 6 months.  No one here knows exactly  what the final product will be like.  And that I can say it's a FACT.   Either way, we'll find out in time. 


Exactly. That means, you admit, that all the things you said are your opinions, and therefore your assumptions.

So I just find it funny that you put "Fact" in front of all your points in response to mine, when you already know that you know nothing about this service as well.

"No one here knows exactly  what the final product will be like.  And that I can say it's a FACT." --> So that further reinforces the fact that your points were indeed assumptions, since you don't know anything about the product, right?

 

Anyway, it's good we've established together that you're just full of assumptions. moving on..

Well not really.  The ones that I did put as facts are facts.  We know those 4 games were announced at CES yesterday.  We know Sony have failed and succeeded with various ventures in the past.  We know BD is still the standard medium for HD.  And we know that Sony hasn't released all the details on the service.

But yes, moving on...


And how are those "facts" relevant to my question - how is Playstation Now different from Onlive? They aren't relevant at all.

1. 4 games = useless info.

2. Sony has failed and succeeded = useless info. The fact that they have failed counters your entire argument in the first place.

3. BD is the standard medium = useless info. So what? I was merely pointing out that Sony is more than willing to use old technology.

4. Sony hasn't released all the details = correct, but that counters your entire argument, stating that Playstation Now is going to be great, since YOU DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS.

Seriously, you're like a machine going round and round in circles. A little logic would be nice from time to time yknow? Nevermind. Sorry I responded again, I just couldn't help needing to clarify your intense error in judgment. I'll stop now.