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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Will the X1 ever be able to pass the Wii U?

Turkish on 05 January 2014

Yeah, probably by the end of the summer lol.



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IsawYoshi on 05 January 2014
zorg1000 said:
bonzobanana said:
There is one huge factor in wii u's favour that people are overlooking. The wii u is an incredibly cheap design with low manufacturing costs.

Nintendo have tried to sell the wii u at an inflated price and its struggled but ultimately the wii u will have lower manufacturing costs than a hard drive equipped ps3 or 360. The wii u is fully capable of being sold at a very low price.

There is hardly anything of value in the wii u component wise and they have not used functionality that requires licensing.

1. The chipset is on a 40/45nm process. GPU 40nm and cpu 45nm this is the same or worse than 360 and PS3. The xbox one and ps4 are on a much more expensive 28nm process.

2. There is no hard drive and only a small amount of low speed flash memory.

3. It requires far less power than 360 or PS3 and hence all power components are of lower spec and cheaper.

4. The gamepad screen is just a very low cost resistive screen probably only costing a few dollars.

5. The DDR memory chips are very low speed basic chips, below the memory bandwidth of 360 and PS3 (wii u uses embedded 32MB of memory to compensate for this).

6. Optical drives are not expensive now even higher density drives and there is no support for multiple layers on wii u.

7. They have no licensed royalties to pay. The wii u will not output dolby or dts 5.1 or 7.1 it just uses 5.1 lpcm. It does not have any bluray movie playback or media centre functionality requiring licensed codecs.

8. The radeon gpu is near entry level mobility spec with low licensing costs.

9. The gamepad is missing some functionality like analogue triggers and they use a very low spec battery pack that lasts only 4-5hrs.

10, Obviously the case etc is very basic, minimal size and the circuit board for both the console and gamepad is very low cost.

I'm just making the point Nintendo can price the wii u far more aggressively than ps4 and xbox one. Lets not forget the wii u on average performs lower than 360 and PS3 and the design is using very low cost technology of today. Nintendo have very cleverly used very low cost components in a way that maximises their performance.

Will people be predicting the xbox one will outsell the wii u if the wii u is priced at £99 or £129 etc, maybe $150 in the states. The wii u is fully capable of reaching a budget price point for next christmas that would be impossible for ps4 and xbox one without absolutely huge losses.

Clearly Nintendo loves to make huge profits on weak hardware but they have a card they can play if they have to.

Also the wii u is the only console which is an upgrade route. For current wii owners who basically only use their wii casually, fitness games etc. The wii u represents an upgrade path where they can still use all their old wii software. The pricing of the wii u console may not be right yet but of those 100 million wii users I think many will upgrade when the wii u console hits the right price.

The key thing is at the moment the wii u doesn't represent a fair performance level for its current pricing but that can change.

I think the ps4 is the almost definite winner of this generation but its harder to tell with xbox one vs wii u. I mean the ps4 can basically do anything the xbox one can do but better with the exception of kinect features which most people don't want. The xbox 360 was the king of multiformat gaming vs ps3 but this time around the ps4 beats xbox one considerably by a far higher margin.

Ultimately either could beat the other depending on console pricing, marketing and their exclusive games. Both companies have been poorly managed recently with a lot of poor decisions made. I'm still amazed at how low Nintendo set the wii u spec to the point where it struggles to match ps3 and 360 for multiformat games.

Wii U is sold at a loss at $299 they arent in any position to drastically reduce price

Unless they drop the gamepad that is. 



zorg1000 on 05 January 2014
IsawYoshi said:
zorg1000 said:
bonzobanana said:
There is one huge factor in wii u's favour that people are overlooking. The wii u is an incredibly cheap design with low manufacturing costs.

Nintendo have tried to sell the wii u at an inflated price and its struggled but ultimately the wii u will have lower manufacturing costs than a hard drive equipped ps3 or 360. The wii u is fully capable of being sold at a very low price.

There is hardly anything of value in the wii u component wise and they have not used functionality that requires licensing.

1. The chipset is on a 40/45nm process. GPU 40nm and cpu 45nm this is the same or worse than 360 and PS3. The xbox one and ps4 are on a much more expensive 28nm process.

2. There is no hard drive and only a small amount of low speed flash memory.

3. It requires far less power than 360 or PS3 and hence all power components are of lower spec and cheaper.

4. The gamepad screen is just a very low cost resistive screen probably only costing a few dollars.

5. The DDR memory chips are very low speed basic chips, below the memory bandwidth of 360 and PS3 (wii u uses embedded 32MB of memory to compensate for this).

6. Optical drives are not expensive now even higher density drives and there is no support for multiple layers on wii u.

7. They have no licensed royalties to pay. The wii u will not output dolby or dts 5.1 or 7.1 it just uses 5.1 lpcm. It does not have any bluray movie playback or media centre functionality requiring licensed codecs.

8. The radeon gpu is near entry level mobility spec with low licensing costs.

9. The gamepad is missing some functionality like analogue triggers and they use a very low spec battery pack that lasts only 4-5hrs.

10, Obviously the case etc is very basic, minimal size and the circuit board for both the console and gamepad is very low cost.

I'm just making the point Nintendo can price the wii u far more aggressively than ps4 and xbox one. Lets not forget the wii u on average performs lower than 360 and PS3 and the design is using very low cost technology of today. Nintendo have very cleverly used very low cost components in a way that maximises their performance.

Will people be predicting the xbox one will outsell the wii u if the wii u is priced at £99 or £129 etc, maybe $150 in the states. The wii u is fully capable of reaching a budget price point for next christmas that would be impossible for ps4 and xbox one without absolutely huge losses.

Clearly Nintendo loves to make huge profits on weak hardware but they have a card they can play if they have to.

Also the wii u is the only console which is an upgrade route. For current wii owners who basically only use their wii casually, fitness games etc. The wii u represents an upgrade path where they can still use all their old wii software. The pricing of the wii u console may not be right yet but of those 100 million wii users I think many will upgrade when the wii u console hits the right price.

The key thing is at the moment the wii u doesn't represent a fair performance level for its current pricing but that can change.

I think the ps4 is the almost definite winner of this generation but its harder to tell with xbox one vs wii u. I mean the ps4 can basically do anything the xbox one can do but better with the exception of kinect features which most people don't want. The xbox 360 was the king of multiformat gaming vs ps3 but this time around the ps4 beats xbox one considerably by a far higher margin.

Ultimately either could beat the other depending on console pricing, marketing and their exclusive games. Both companies have been poorly managed recently with a lot of poor decisions made. I'm still amazed at how low Nintendo set the wii u spec to the point where it struggles to match ps3 and 360 for multiformat games.

Wii U is sold at a loss at $299 they arent in any position to drastically reduce price

Unless they drop the gamepad that is. 

Yes but his post never said anything about getting rid of it



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

IsawYoshi on 05 January 2014
zorg1000 said:
IsawYoshi said:
zorg1000 said:
bonzobanana said:
There is one huge factor in wii u's favour that people are overlooking. The wii u is an incredibly cheap design with low manufacturing costs.

Nintendo have tried to sell the wii u at an inflated price and its struggled but ultimately the wii u will have lower manufacturing costs than a hard drive equipped ps3 or 360. The wii u is fully capable of being sold at a very low price.

There is hardly anything of value in the wii u component wise and they have not used functionality that requires licensing.

1. The chipset is on a 40/45nm process. GPU 40nm and cpu 45nm this is the same or worse than 360 and PS3. The xbox one and ps4 are on a much more expensive 28nm process.

2. There is no hard drive and only a small amount of low speed flash memory.

3. It requires far less power than 360 or PS3 and hence all power components are of lower spec and cheaper.

4. The gamepad screen is just a very low cost resistive screen probably only costing a few dollars.

5. The DDR memory chips are very low speed basic chips, below the memory bandwidth of 360 and PS3 (wii u uses embedded 32MB of memory to compensate for this).

6. Optical drives are not expensive now even higher density drives and there is no support for multiple layers on wii u.

7. They have no licensed royalties to pay. The wii u will not output dolby or dts 5.1 or 7.1 it just uses 5.1 lpcm. It does not have any bluray movie playback or media centre functionality requiring licensed codecs.

8. The radeon gpu is near entry level mobility spec with low licensing costs.

9. The gamepad is missing some functionality like analogue triggers and they use a very low spec battery pack that lasts only 4-5hrs.

10, Obviously the case etc is very basic, minimal size and the circuit board for both the console and gamepad is very low cost.

I'm just making the point Nintendo can price the wii u far more aggressively than ps4 and xbox one. Lets not forget the wii u on average performs lower than 360 and PS3 and the design is using very low cost technology of today. Nintendo have very cleverly used very low cost components in a way that maximises their performance.

Will people be predicting the xbox one will outsell the wii u if the wii u is priced at £99 or £129 etc, maybe $150 in the states. The wii u is fully capable of reaching a budget price point for next christmas that would be impossible for ps4 and xbox one without absolutely huge losses.

Clearly Nintendo loves to make huge profits on weak hardware but they have a card they can play if they have to.

Also the wii u is the only console which is an upgrade route. For current wii owners who basically only use their wii casually, fitness games etc. The wii u represents an upgrade path where they can still use all their old wii software. The pricing of the wii u console may not be right yet but of those 100 million wii users I think many will upgrade when the wii u console hits the right price.

The key thing is at the moment the wii u doesn't represent a fair performance level for its current pricing but that can change.

I think the ps4 is the almost definite winner of this generation but its harder to tell with xbox one vs wii u. I mean the ps4 can basically do anything the xbox one can do but better with the exception of kinect features which most people don't want. The xbox 360 was the king of multiformat gaming vs ps3 but this time around the ps4 beats xbox one considerably by a far higher margin.

Ultimately either could beat the other depending on console pricing, marketing and their exclusive games. Both companies have been poorly managed recently with a lot of poor decisions made. I'm still amazed at how low Nintendo set the wii u spec to the point where it struggles to match ps3 and 360 for multiformat games.

Wii U is sold at a loss at $299 they arent in any position to drastically reduce price

Unless they drop the gamepad that is. 

Yes but his post never said anything about getting rid of it

And that's why I wrote "Unless they drop the gamepad that is." :D



bonzobanana on 05 January 2014
zorg1000 said:
bonzobanana said:
There is one huge factor in wii u's favour that people are overlooking. The wii u is an incredibly cheap design with low manufacturing costs.

Nintendo have tried to sell the wii u at an inflated price and its struggled but ultimately the wii u will have lower manufacturing costs than a hard drive equipped ps3 or 360. The wii u is fully capable of being sold at a very low price.

There is hardly anything of value in the wii u component wise and they have not used functionality that requires licensing.

1. The chipset is on a 40/45nm process. GPU 40nm and cpu 45nm this is the same or worse than 360 and PS3. The xbox one and ps4 are on a much more expensive 28nm process.

2. There is no hard drive and only a small amount of low speed flash memory.

3. It requires far less power than 360 or PS3 and hence all power components are of lower spec and cheaper.

4. The gamepad screen is just a very low cost resistive screen probably only costing a few dollars.

5. The DDR memory chips are very low speed basic chips, below the memory bandwidth of 360 and PS3 (wii u uses embedded 32MB of memory to compensate for this).

6. Optical drives are not expensive now even higher density drives and there is no support for multiple layers on wii u.

7. They have no licensed royalties to pay. The wii u will not output dolby or dts 5.1 or 7.1 it just uses 5.1 lpcm. It does not have any bluray movie playback or media centre functionality requiring licensed codecs.

8. The radeon gpu is near entry level mobility spec with low licensing costs.

9. The gamepad is missing some functionality like analogue triggers and they use a very low spec battery pack that lasts only 4-5hrs.

10, Obviously the case etc is very basic, minimal size and the circuit board for both the console and gamepad is very low cost.

I'm just making the point Nintendo can price the wii u far more aggressively than ps4 and xbox one. Lets not forget the wii u on average performs lower than 360 and PS3 and the design is using very low cost technology of today. Nintendo have very cleverly used very low cost components in a way that maximises their performance.

Will people be predicting the xbox one will outsell the wii u if the wii u is priced at £99 or £129 etc, maybe $150 in the states. The wii u is fully capable of reaching a budget price point for next christmas that would be impossible for ps4 and xbox one without absolutely huge losses.

Clearly Nintendo loves to make huge profits on weak hardware but they have a card they can play if they have to.

Also the wii u is the only console which is an upgrade route. For current wii owners who basically only use their wii casually, fitness games etc. The wii u represents an upgrade path where they can still use all their old wii software. The pricing of the wii u console may not be right yet but of those 100 million wii users I think many will upgrade when the wii u console hits the right price.

The key thing is at the moment the wii u doesn't represent a fair performance level for its current pricing but that can change.

I think the ps4 is the almost definite winner of this generation but its harder to tell with xbox one vs wii u. I mean the ps4 can basically do anything the xbox one can do but better with the exception of kinect features which most people don't want. The xbox 360 was the king of multiformat gaming vs ps3 but this time around the ps4 beats xbox one considerably by a far higher margin.

Ultimately either could beat the other depending on console pricing, marketing and their exclusive games. Both companies have been poorly managed recently with a lot of poor decisions made. I'm still amazed at how low Nintendo set the wii u spec to the point where it struggles to match ps3 and 360 for multiformat games.

Wii U is sold at a loss at $299 they arent in any position to drastically reduce price

Nintendo claimed the wii was sold at a very small profit but later figures showed this to be a complete lie and was sold at a huge profit. Nintendo know we don't have access to their manufacturing costs and they are under no obligation to give them out. They can say what they like for marketing purposes. Yes I'm stating they are lieing but any statistic can be manipulated. They could clarify it and say that wanted to re-coup all R&D costs on the first 2 million sold or 4 million etc.

Just have a look elsewhere what your $299 will buy with regard a desktop pc or laptop and then look at how much hardware and silicon you are getting for your money then remember such items are manufactured in 10,000s not millions of units and they include seperate parts (desktop pcs) each by different manufacturers requiring their own profit and final assembly. Then you have large licensing costs etc for PCs. Remember the wii u bypasses the need for a huge number of components by being integrated all into a single small PCB.

The  mobility radeon hd 6400 m gpu series the wii u is likely based on is actually a 32nm fabrication process for pc but the wii u is on a cheaper 40nm process.

There is no way any sane person could believe Nintendo's figures. Every significant component in wii u is low end, low cost.

 

 

 

 



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fps_d0minat0r on 05 January 2014

Yeah but anyone who wants a cheap console, could just get a ps3 or 360 and play more games than the wii U.
Anyone who already has a ps3 or 360 are more likely to upgrade to PS4 or XB1, even if they might not upgrade anytime soon.



Hamister on 05 January 2014

I'd say it will be a close call this year. Wii U's chances to stay ahead i 2014 comes down to what impact Mario Kart 8 will have in the US. IF that game can be released early in Q2 and have legs to carry it and its hardware through the rest of the year, then I think Wii U will see quite a large sales boost well before XboxOne gets its holiday boost. That could very well mean Wii U can fend off XboxOne in 2014.

Eventually XboxOne will pass Wii U though, based on Microsoft's long term strategy for their plattform. A strategy I don't see in Nintendo's Wii U plattform.



bonzobanana on 05 January 2014

There is nothing that significant cost wise about the wii u gamepad. Compared to dualshock wireless controller. Android tablets are sold with 7" capacitance screens for £30 at retail and the screen cost of those is probably something like $5. The resistive screen the wii u gamepad uses will be even cheaper. Remember all gamepad screen processing is done in the main console. The gamepad just decompresses and displays. Something easily done by a small low power arm chip. All the wireless functionality is much the same. The gamepad manufacturing cost is probably in the region of $15-25 with $25 being very generous. They have removed analogue triggers from the gamepad but did add a Near field chip but those aren't expensive. People need to realise there is nothing cutting edge about the wii u. The gamepad is great but a low res resistive screen, a few extra chips and a bigger case is not state of the art in anyway.

Surely most people here have seen basic android tablets that while lacking as many buttons or analogue sticks do include everything within including much more powerful cpus, gpus, memory, storage, ports and a better screen. They include a psu and a more powerful lithium battery pack and these retail as low as £30-40 in the UK. Thats full retail price with VAT, shop profit, shipping costs and numerous other costs. They probably leave the factory door at $20 so why are on earth would a wii u gamepad cost more to make than that?



gcube2000 on 05 January 2014

i dont know. Xbox One is going to fail in Japan so its hard to say



DerNebel on 05 January 2014

Japan: No
Europe: I see X1 sales dropping like a rock here, but the UK and some other countries should still get it above the U
Usa: Will healthily outsell it
Overall: Yeah it will