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Forums - Sony - Low clock speed a challenge for PS4 development too (Project CARS dev)

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fatslob-:O on 23 December 2013
Hynad said:
fatslob-:O said:
Hynad said:

@Bold: Indeed. Your comments everywhere on VGC, and you signature there, points to that effect.

Open GL ES was supported from day one by the PS3 as one of its official API. Mantle isn't officially supported by the PS4. Could they add support for it? Probably. Is it really needed? I don't think so. Especially when you hear devs express how easy it is to develop for the PS4. Yeah, some devs like Slightly Mad may have some learning to curve to go through before they're totally comfortable with the architecture, but the tools will improve as the gen goes on.

@Bold LMAO My bait just keeps on working. 

About your signature? That's nothing next to your behaviour on the forums. 

You sound awfully mad. My behaviour ain't nothing like a PC elitist. #Dealwithit

Your attempts to vilify PC gamers in general is nothing but disrespectful. Keep up with the ad hominem attacks. 



Around the Network
fatslob-:O on 23 December 2013
zarx said:
Pemalite said:


The CPU clockspeed isn't actually the problem.
It's the IPC or Instructions Per Clock, Jaguar falls flat on it's face in that regard.
For example... Jaguar might be able to execute 1 instruction per mhz, where-as AMD's Trinity might be able to execute 4 instructions per mhz, thus at the same "mhz/ghz" rating, Trinity would be 4x as fast. (This is why the Pentium 4/D fell on it's face.)

But that's to be completely expected.
Console manufacturers haven't taken CPU performance seriously for a long time, it's the graphics that sells the games so they tend to throw everything at Bandwidth and GPU power.
Microsoft and Sony would have actually had far better performance if they wen't with a Trinity/Llano based Quad-Core CPU, but that's a story for another day...

However, the difference between this generation and last generations CPU's is that despite them all being pathetically slow... With this new generation the GPU is going to be taking on some more of the tasks that is traditionally handled by the CPU, this is something that will take time for developers to get used to having to do and play with as really, only PC developers have done anything of the sorts.


The trouble with uing the GPGPU to make up for the weakness of the CPU is that GPGPU is only good at tasks that can be highly parallelized. Which leaves the serialised tasks which the Jaguar CPU is weak at.

This times a 1000. GPUs will only excel in terms of embarrassingly parrallel problems according to amdahl's law. 



Hynad on 23 December 2013
fatslob-:O said:
Hynad said:
fatslob-:O said:
Hynad said:

@Bold: Indeed. Your comments everywhere on VGC, and you signature there, points to that effect.

Open GL ES was supported from day one by the PS3 as one of its official API. Mantle isn't officially supported by the PS4. Could they add support for it? Probably. Is it really needed? I don't think so. Especially when you hear devs express how easy it is to develop for the PS4. Yeah, some devs like Slightly Mad may have some learning to curve to go through before they're totally comfortable with the architecture, but the tools will improve as the gen goes on.

@Bold LMAO My bait just keeps on working. 

About your signature? That's nothing next to your behaviour on the forums. 

You sound awfully mad. My behaviour ain't nothing like a PC elitist. #Dealwithit

Your attempts to vilify PC gamers in general is nothing but disrespectful. Keep up with the ad hominem attacks. 

But, I don't attack PC gamers. I call you out on your behaviour. But of course, you won't admit that. You're perfect. Just like everyone of us on VGC. ^_-

And by the way, I'm also a PC gamer. Doesn't make me shove it down everyone's throat in every single thread about console graphics.



fatslob-:O on 23 December 2013
Hynad said:
fatslob-:O said:
Hynad said:
fatslob-:O said:
Hynad said:

@Bold: Indeed. Your comments everywhere on VGC, and you signature there, points to that effect.

Open GL ES was supported from day one by the PS3 as one of its official API. Mantle isn't officially supported by the PS4. Could they add support for it? Probably. Is it really needed? I don't think so. Especially when you hear devs express how easy it is to develop for the PS4. Yeah, some devs like Slightly Mad may have some learning to curve to go through before they're totally comfortable with the architecture, but the tools will improve as the gen goes on.

@Bold LMAO My bait just keeps on working. 

About your signature? That's nothing next to your behaviour on the forums. 

You sound awfully mad. My behaviour ain't nothing like a PC elitist. #Dealwithit

Your attempts to vilify PC gamers in general is nothing but disrespectful. Keep up with the ad hominem attacks. 

But, I don't attack PC gamers. I call you out on your behaviour. But of course, you won't admit that. You're perfect. Just like everyone of us on VGC. ^_-

And by the way, I'm also a PC gamer. Doesn't make me shove it down everyone's throat in every single thread about console graphics.

When did I ever act like a PC elitist ? When ?! I know I'm not perfect but it's certainly a whole lot better than to just keep pulling off worthless ad hominem attacks like you do. 

Am I not allowed to have an opinion on console graphics then ? What gives you the right to judge me when your clearly being very selective about my posts. 



Hynad on 23 December 2013
fatslob-:O said:
Hynad said:
fatslob-:O said:

You sound awfully mad. My behaviour ain't nothing like a PC elitist. #Dealwithit

Your attempts to vilify PC gamers in general is nothing but disrespectful. Keep up with the ad hominem attacks. 

But, I don't attack PC gamers. I call you out on your behaviour. But of course, you won't admit that. You're perfect. Just like everyone of us on VGC. ^_-

And by the way, I'm also a PC gamer. Doesn't make me shove it down everyone's throat in every single thread about console graphics.

When did I ever act like a PC elitist ? When ?! I know I'm not perfect but it's certainly a whole lot better than to just keep pulling off worthless ad hominem attacks like you do. 

Am I not allowed to have an opinion on console graphics then ? What gives you the right to judge me when your clearly being very selective about my posts. 

No. I'm not being selective. But if you want to discuss this further, I invite you to contact me via PM.

If you don't realise your own behaviour, I expect this to take a while.



Around the Network
fatslob-:O on 23 December 2013
Hynad said:
fatslob-:O said:
Hynad said:
fatslob-:O said:

You sound awfully mad. My behaviour ain't nothing like a PC elitist. #Dealwithit

Your attempts to vilify PC gamers in general is nothing but disrespectful. Keep up with the ad hominem attacks. 

But, I don't attack PC gamers. I call you out on your behaviour. But of course, you won't admit that. You're perfect. Just like everyone of us on VGC. ^_-

And by the way, I'm also a PC gamer. Doesn't make me shove it down everyone's throat in every single thread about console graphics.

When did I ever act like a PC elitist ? When ?! I know I'm not perfect but it's certainly a whole lot better than to just keep pulling off worthless ad hominem attacks like you do. 

Am I not allowed to have an opinion on console graphics then ? What gives you the right to judge me when your clearly being very selective about my posts. 

No. I'm not being selective. But if you want to discuss this further, I invite you to contact me via PM.

If you don't realie your own behaviour, I expect this to take a while.

Just go and contact me through PM. 



Cobretti2 on 23 December 2013

well this was an interesting thread.

about 3% relevant posts
about 5% saying misleading title
about 10% blaming the developer for being lazy (but for some reason they only try their hardest on Wii U)
the rest a side discussion about pc api that turned into an argument lol.



 

 

curl-6 on 24 December 2013
zarx said:
Pemalite said:


The CPU clockspeed isn't actually the problem.
It's the IPC or Instructions Per Clock, Jaguar falls flat on it's face in that regard.
For example... Jaguar might be able to execute 1 instruction per mhz, where-as AMD's Trinity might be able to execute 4 instructions per mhz, thus at the same "mhz/ghz" rating, Trinity would be 4x as fast. (This is why the Pentium 4/D fell on it's face.)

But that's to be completely expected.
Console manufacturers haven't taken CPU performance seriously for a long time, it's the graphics that sells the games so they tend to throw everything at Bandwidth and GPU power.
Microsoft and Sony would have actually had far better performance if they wen't with a Trinity/Llano based Quad-Core CPU, but that's a story for another day...

However, the difference between this generation and last generations CPU's is that despite them all being pathetically slow... With this new generation the GPU is going to be taking on some more of the tasks that is traditionally handled by the CPU, this is something that will take time for developers to get used to having to do and play with as really, only PC developers have done anything of the sorts.


The trouble with uing the GPGPU to make up for the weakness of the CPU is that GPGPU is only good at tasks that can be highly parallelized. Which leaves the serialised tasks which the Jaguar CPU is weak at.

Out of curiosity, what kind of tasks are serialised or parallelized?



fatslob-:O on 24 December 2013
curl-6 said:
zarx said:
Pemalite said:


The CPU clockspeed isn't actually the problem.
It's the IPC or Instructions Per Clock, Jaguar falls flat on it's face in that regard.
For example... Jaguar might be able to execute 1 instruction per mhz, where-as AMD's Trinity might be able to execute 4 instructions per mhz, thus at the same "mhz/ghz" rating, Trinity would be 4x as fast. (This is why the Pentium 4/D fell on it's face.)

But that's to be completely expected.
Console manufacturers haven't taken CPU performance seriously for a long time, it's the graphics that sells the games so they tend to throw everything at Bandwidth and GPU power.
Microsoft and Sony would have actually had far better performance if they wen't with a Trinity/Llano based Quad-Core CPU, but that's a story for another day...

However, the difference between this generation and last generations CPU's is that despite them all being pathetically slow... With this new generation the GPU is going to be taking on some more of the tasks that is traditionally handled by the CPU, this is something that will take time for developers to get used to having to do and play with as really, only PC developers have done anything of the sorts.


The trouble with uing the GPGPU to make up for the weakness of the CPU is that GPGPU is only good at tasks that can be highly parallelized. Which leaves the serialised tasks which the Jaguar CPU is weak at.

Out of curiosity, what kind of tasks are serialised or parallelized?

Tasks such as managing the resources of the game engine are usually serialized whereas rendering is parallelized. That is why GPUs have been doing NOTHING BUT GRAPHICS for a very long time until recently.



curl-6 on 24 December 2013
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
zarx said:

The trouble with uing the GPGPU to make up for the weakness of the CPU is that GPGPU is only good at tasks that can be highly parallelized. Which leaves the serialised tasks which the Jaguar CPU is weak at.

Out of curiosity, what kind of tasks are serialised or parallelized?

Tasks such as managing the resources of the game engine are usually serialized whereas rendering is parallelized. That is why GPUs have been doing NOTHING BUT GRAPHICS for a very long time until recently.

Thanks. I'm trying to educate myself on this stuff, haha.