I suggest you read my last post, directly above this one.

And yes, if someone had posted at the time of the PS2 launch that the Dreamcast was the better system at that point in time, I probably would have agreed with them then, too. Because it is entirely possible for one system to be the better purchase at a certain point in time, with a given amount of knowledge, but for it to be the wrong choice in the long term. Of course, you're not going to admit that it's possible for the Wii U to have the better library in a year's time, or two year's time, etc, so in the end, there's not much point continuing this debate - you have already decided on the "truth", which is a problem for me, because I deal in facts, not truths.

You know, I've noticed something about console warmongers - they like to invoke the Dreamcast to prove their arguments, quite a bit. It's like the gamer equivalent of invoking the Nazis. From now on, if someone points to Dreamcast and goes "that would have applied to the Dreamcast, too", I'm going to mock the hell out of them for having just lost the argument, in the exact same way that a person who invokes the Nazis to win an argument necessarily loses the argument (unless it's an argument about the Nazis to begin with, of course).

@Bold Do you have any statistics to prove that they go looking for reviews ? (Not from the forums but from the so called "soccer moms" because I am looking for non biases all around.) You clearly demonstrated that you obviously don't understand how masses will buy a game. The masses do NOT impulsively buy games immediately. The way a game can be successful towards the masses is that a small fraction of them are willing to try them. If they deem the game as a high quality title then they will spread words to others and you get a wild fire affect of demand. Games like mario kart and NSMBWII did not sell upon tens of millions on release. The reason they have attained these legs is through the words of other parts of the masses. Your assumption that they impulsively buy is incorrect and disingenuous at best. 

The masses do not care about review scores, it's as simple as that otherwise their wouldn't be such distortions in sales across each games. 

You see the problem with "experienced gamers" is that they are biased by their own defintion of what a defines a "quality" game. The reality of it all is that the market responds differently. The market simply has the greater presence in comparison to the "experienced gamer". What the "market" thinks about the "experienced gamer" is simply irrelevant to the amount of votes that were shown. 

@Bold The problem with that logic is your equating opinions that pertains to games compared to a financial adviser that has credentials to do the jobs.

The votes or opinions of a "soccer mom" and a "gamer" is equal as far as the market is concerned, it's as simple as that. The recommendation of a financial adviser is incomparable to that of a stoner because a financial adviser is trained to manage something as objective as financial wealth and for that your example was definitely far fetched.

Marketing will do nothing if the masses do not realize you definition of quality pertaining to a game. Therefore these games deserve low sales because the masses just simply do not have anything worthwhile to mention about these games. If the WII U truly had worthwhile exclusives then they wouldn't be having non existant legs. Again I have to keep telling you that "SOFTWARE SELLS HARDWARE". What exactly is so hard to understand about this statement ? Price can be an issue but all it comes down to a gaming console is the games. Would you rather a console with all your favourite game that cost $1000 for a console or would you rather a $100 console with absolutely no games ? The masses know what the WII U is, it's just that they don't want it as you can clearly see for a year now. SM3DW didn't move alot of hardware because the market thought it was a low quality title. In other words SM3DW is a flop compared to other mario titles. 

It’s rather amusing. You’re asking me to provide statistics, claiming my views are incorrect yet you have absolutely nothing to back up your opinion which in fact is just an opinion; however an article I found showed that in 1998 (it’s obviously gotten worse) showed that impulse buying contributed to $4Billion in North America alone. http://www.usaweekend.com/article/20130712/MONEY01/307120006/ The Wii being the “hot item” for a few years…. Well, you get the picture. Please provide any other system where a game with a universal rating of 5 that garnered multi millions in sales, for any other system…..oh wait, you cant! You can’t because it did not exist prior to the Wii. You’re also falsely grouping everyone together. The masses are divided into groups and prior to the Wii, the soccer mom “was not” buying the console for herself. This type of demographic did not really exist. Your also forgetting a lot of shovel ware was being moved off the shelves when the Wii was introduced. The system itself was a phenomenon and people were “impulsively buying” any piece of software from what they could get their hands on, especially during the holidays, the shelves were bare. Did you not visit the stores during the first 2 years of it’s existence?  Instead of claiming I’m being disingenuous, back up your opinion please.

Yes we are biased. A good game is one that can provide a rich experience and enjoyment, however, that doesn’t mean that I would recommend Dark Souls for my 7 year old daughter or for my mom because they would not enjoy the experience. Due to my gaming experience I have the ability to discern what someone would enjoy, its simple psychology that you can apply when you’re knowledgeable with games. The rest of your response is absolute nonsense and at this point I believe you are just grasping at straws in order to keep it going. You talk about the market yet, you do not go into how it changes. Take a brief look at the history of Carnival games when the “impulse buying “ stopped and the Wii was no longer a hot commodity (New carnival games only moved 540,000 copies).
What job I use an analogy for is irrelevant. As stated previously, for some people “A GAME IS AN INVESTMENT”. This holds true especially if the consumer is on an income that only allows a limited number of purchases.  The gamer vote is also more relevant as the game will continue purchasing down the road where the soccer mom wont. Companies loose money due to this or have terrible sales such as described above.

Again as describe previously, that statement is incorrect. The value of the Wii was the motion control and the ease of use. In this case the console itself and its design was the significant contributor to the success of it’s games. Impulse buying as stated early played a major factor in games that were quite terrible selling overly well which when he hype died down, so did the shovel ware sales. I do not believe you have clearly read my responses. I never argued that software does not sell hardware. You seem to digress from the actual debate quite often. The masses do not know what the Wii U is, hell there were articles where employees of stores did not know the difference. The Wii U has been dead for quite some time and it will take more than Mario to get the heart beat going. For a console to increase its user base by 13% in two weeks since Mario’s release means thatit’s moving console and by your numbers is not a low quality title

@Bold I disagree with this. If they truly only cared about wii sports then why does the WII have more 5+ million software sales compared to the PS360 ? 

Exactly, with only few good games, nintendo fans devored the offer, had there been more good options, then there would have been less million sellers

@Bold Oh but I absolutely do have data to back up my claim. Where's your end of the bargain ? I simply asked where do you have data claiming that the masses actually look for reviews ? I refuted your incorrect claim that the masses will purchase a game based off of review scores simply because there are distortions of game sales everywhere else around the market. If a survey is 10 or so years old then it holds no relevance to representing anything so you pretty much shot yourself in the foot on this one. Just 4 billion dollars ? That's actually small in comparison to the rest of the population.If we assume that it got 10x worse (That's being generous.) , it's still a small amount.

Didn't your data above you say that impulse buying accounts for very little of the sales that happen ? If anything the data above you just furthers against your point that the masses will just go on any impulse buying spree. It sounds like you made a poorly thought out post on your part. 

@Bold If it was truly nonsense then why didn't you go about challenging it then ? The market is based off of human nature if you hadn't noticed. Much like humans, the market is always finding a better way to strive towards better products so the market is clearly the better way of telling where what the better product is. The "experienced gamers" votes are essentially just as equal as the rest of the market so none of them takes precedence over another. The new carnival games probably isn't a "better" product according to the market so why should they buy it ? If the gamer vote was truly more relevant then why is the gaming market not doing so hot ? Why are we gonna suffer a decrease in game sales ? Why are we going into a new generation of contraction ? How do you know that the WII was an artificial growth if there is literally no one willing to take up the job of getting them back ? Nintendo as well as the rest of the gaming industry is contracting simply because they are refusing to get them back. YOU WOULD HAVE BEING RIGHT HAD THERE BEING A WII 2 BUT INSTEAD WERE LEFT WITH A GAMECUBE 2. 

IN THE END YOUR LEFT WITH THE NULL AND VOID POINT THAT THE WII WAS CREATED DUE TO IMPULSE.

@Bold Again you keep forgetting that "software sells hardware". No matter how well designed the console is, it is going to be the GAMES that determine it's future. What else do you buy a GAMING CONSOLE for ? I thought so ... Don't need to go over your null and void point of impulse buying again. 

The increase is only big relative to it's small install base. The increase is actually small. That's like saying the install base increased from 10 to 11 which is by 10%. In other words the sales is still not to healthy levels even in comparison to gamecube so SM3DW IS A LOW QUALITY TITLE. 

I think I'm done here for the most part. 

You didn't refute anything. You just babbled and diverge from the actual topic and start going on about something else when you cannot refute my statements. It seems to be a trend in your posts. I provided you data with the impulse shopping, and showed you that besides the Wii, low rated games match sales. You were not able to provided one single refernce whatsoever to any of your claims. $4 Billion (approx 6 Billion today) 15 years ago was significant and yes I assume it probably has increased dramtically Some sources claim 50% https://uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/handle/10012/912, others estimate $38 Billion yearly http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/impulse/201312/splurchase and this is not on a global aspect.Unlike you I can see here all day and provide you with references. You obviously read the article incorrectly as no where did it say "impulse buying accounts for very little" Lying does not make your argument credible! Also you state you have data to back up your claims? Well where the hell is it?

Again please thoroughly read my responses. I did challenge your response and called out where I believe you were innacurate. Instead of properly answering any of my questions you attempt to drown it out with questions of your own. Your reasoning about the market makes absolutely no sense and I am beggining to think your account is either purely for trolling or else you truly have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about. You want data for my argument regarding reviews and there relation to sales, well go look through metacritic or IGN and then go into the VGC database and look through sales. Majority of the time with the odd instance) reviews reflect sales.  Never did I state a purchase is greater than the other ( a sale is a sale) , you decided to add that on your own and make those claims however as I advised earlier the opinion to review a game and recommend is greater than that of a casual/soccer mom and I'm not going to regurgitate the reasoning as you can go back through my previous arguments.  Your incredibly naive if you believe "the market" decided that Carnival Games was of better quality than New Carnival games. The fact of the matter is which the majority will agree or as you call "the masses" that Wii began to fall from grace after 2010. As I stated the hype was gone and the impulse shovel ware buys died like the Dinosaurs. Due to the fact that the "masses" would agree with me, if we once again go by your logic, that means your wrong! Plain and simple. You have also yet to provide a game on any different console with a universal low rating that managed to sell in the same fashion as carnival games. Just so you know.....BOLDING WITH CAPS MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT! YOUR ARGUMENT HAS BEEN RENDERED MOOT!!!!

Honest to god I'm suprised you were not beaten as a child. Seriously, did I ever argue that games do not sell consoles? No. However, in the case of the Wii, the console itself CONTRIBUTED to the success of it's games due to it's unique style. There were quality games that propelled it to 100mill sales but like I've stated numerous times already, due to the unique style of the console, shovelware for the first time was able to sell at the level it did those first few years. 
500,000 sales since Mario's release on a console that had sold 800-900K or so since Janaury is significant therefore destroys your argument of SM3DW being a low quality title.

Nirvana_Nut85 said:

Yes you should be done, before you further embarass yourself.

For a mario title that's pretty pathetic in comparison to other 3D marios. Galaxy 2 was able to pull off a million copies easily at it's first week aligned and that was the seccond lowest selling 3D mario so SM3DW was truly a low quality title. BTW it's first week aligned sales were around 400K so yea it's low quality. 

Or before you keep making more crappy points for me to rip apart. Your done here. Just admit that SALES = QUALITY and leave it at that because you clearly ran out of garbage to throw at. 

So, you're determining that 3D World is low quality by comparing its debut sales on a console with around a 4m install base to Galaxy 2's debut sales on a console with a then 70m install base?  And you accuse his points of being crappy?  That's rich.