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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo's Conflicting Hardware and Software Philosophies

RolStoppable said:
Scisca said:

Why? When I saw Wii U it was obvious to me that they'll ignore Wii U and not for a single moment did I believe that Wii U is gonna get the support Reggie was bullshitting about. It had everything going against it and nothing going for it. Just one more time Nintendo decided to stay a gen behind - such a decision has its consequences. Don't put the blame on 3rd parties for Nintendo's decisions.

Why is the console expensive? Ask Nintendo why they did such a lousy job. It's barely more powerful than a PS3 and yet is over twice as expensive to manufacture. They messed up. It shouldn't cost more than $249 day 1.

The analog sticks are probably the only change made for the third parties (and it's a bloody good one!), but Wii U already got its fair share of CoDs, ACs, Darksiders, Zombi Us, Batmans and Splinter Cells and Watchdogs to more than justify this one change. And it's not a proof of Nintendo making a 3rd party friendly console, but rather showing just how out of touch with the gaming reality they were while designing it. They had to be reminded of what true analogs should work like.

The actual sales of 3rd party games have all to do with what you have now and why you won't be getting more ports for it. There is no market and there never will be any, cause the console is too underpowered and it's all Nintendo's fault. 3rd parties aren't the ones who should risk their money in order to make a system work. Neither in the case of Wii U, nor Vita.

The Wii U is as anti-3rd party as it gets. Porting games is totally pointless, as they will be massively inferior and nobody will be willing to pick them up over a PS4One version. The only thing that can have any sense is making exclusive games, but then you take a look at the instal base and throw that idea out of the window as soon as possible. It's not 3rd parties fault. Nintendo is responsible for this situation, nobody else.

I am not blaming third parties for Nintendo's idiotic decision to go after third parties. That decision led to what the Wii U is and Nintendo is going to rightfully pay for it. They turned their backs on their audience and it's a betrayal of epic proportions.


You can keep on believing what you want, man. Keep on believing that the most anti-3rd party console on the market is a move after the 3rd parties, or that smart devices aren't stealing casuals from the Wii. Keep on ignoring the fact that 3rd parties are flat out ignoring Vita (a Sony console, if you forgot), keep on ignoring the struggles PS3 went through. You can believe what you want, seriously, it doesn't change the fact that Wii U is yet another Nintendo console that's totally ignoring the needs and expectations of 3rd parties and a weird package that 3rd parties have never asked for.

It's Nintendo that left 3rd parties behind, not the other way round.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

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Honestly, I don't get why people keep harping like the Gamepad is the main reason the Wii U isn't successful.

If Nintendo actually put the effort into making games that used the touch interface well (literally only a handful of games that actually use it extensively outside of acting as a separate viewing device for off tv or multiplayer) or allowed (or built the Wii U to be able to handle) more then one Gamepad at a time, the system might be selling better. At this point, Nintendo went cheap on the system and combined with a weak year 1 software schedule we have the current situation. The software selection itself is pretty much playing it safe with variations of games that had success during the Wii and DS eras rather then Nintendo stepping outside the box like they did with early DS and Wii games.

Also Nintendo SHOULD make their system something 3rd parties find attractive, they get more money when 3rd parties find success on their system then they would if that was the case. Although sadly the Wii U seems more aimed at the Japanese 3rd party studios that don't want to spend as much rather then 3rd parties in general but in truth it is all about Nintendo thinking about themselves rather then trying to extend themselves.



RolStoppable said:
Purple said:

I think we can all agree the gamepad has been a disaster for Nintendo. It serves a minimal function in most games, adds a huge cost in system production, increases the price of the system for consumers and alienates a huge percentage of the market with its awkward unintuitive design. (Sure, off-TV play is handy, but Vita sales should be a fair indication the market doesn't think it's worth hundreds of dollars for.)

Now Nintendo aren't stupid. They would have known of all of these problems prior to release but they must have had a reason for putting it in place regardless.

Yes, they had a reason: Third parties.

Instead of thinking of the Gamepad as a way to realize a touchscreen controller, you have to think of it as a way to have a dual analog controller. Simple question: Who wants or needs a dual analog controller?

1) The Wii audience? Obviously not. An important part of the Wii's success is that the dual analog controller was rejected as the standard. There's no good reason why people who were happy about that decision would want a dual analog controller for the follow-up console.

2) Nintendo's developers? When looking at their released and upcoming games, the answer is no. It's not just that they have no real use for the touch or dual screen setup, they don't need a second analog stick either.

3) Third parties? You can bet on it.

So the starting point for the Wii U controller idea was not how to put a touchscreen on a controller, but how to sell a dual analog controller which was required to make third parties consider the system. But from the consumers' perspective, Nintendo knew that they couldn't go straight back to the controller they had rejected as the standard input device, so they had to come up with something to make a dual analog controller more appealing. The Gamepad is the best they could come up with.

"But, but, but... third parties didn't ask for the Gamepad!"

Indeed, they didn't. But it's not like it is a lot of work to write the code to get some tertiary functions displayed on the Gamepad screen, so the Gamepad is far from being a hassle to developers. It's not even close to as much work as making a game playable with an entirely different controller like the Wiimote/Nunchuk setup.

"But, but, but... there's also the lack of processing power. Third parties didn't ask for such a weak console either!"

Indeed, they didn't. But approximately 75% of PS3/360 multiplatform games scheduled to release around or after Wii U launch weren't announced for the Wii U, so anyone with half a brain should be able to realize that controllers, processing power and the like just so happen to be convenient excuses for third parties. This held true in the past, it holds true in the present and it will continue to hold true in the future.

Anyway, the Wii U's mission was to get third parties on board above everything else. That's why such a flawed console was conceived and launched. Nintendo's software choices were flawed, but they pale in comparison with the hardware decisions. There is no Nintendo software that necessitated the creation of the Gamepad; and what's there just tried to desperately make use of it.

Hmm very interesting theory and you may be right. All things considered they actually did well in encouraging a variety of third parties to be there for launch. Even EA had a good selection of games available. 

I think if you're right it corresponds with my point though. That the hardware division isn't engaging with the software devs and the result is a console with a vision that isn't being supported with the software.



The Wii was never a repeatable formula. That was the problem all along.

The whole concept doesn't work unless you have a NEW incredible type of gimmick/hook to sell the system and Nintendo's R&D failed to supply it (and to be fair, to ask them to replicate that every 5-6 years is unfair, even Apple is having a hard time finding something new with the same impact as the iPod > iPhone > iPad run they've had).



zorg1000 said:
JazzB1987 said:
zorg1000 said:
Zero999 said:

"It serves a minimal function in most games, adds a huge cost in development, increases the price of the system for consumers"

I stopped reading after that.


Why? Name the games that absolutely need the gamepad and I believe Miyamoto stated it adds close to $100 on the console. There is nothing inherently wrong with that statement.

Name a game that absolutely needs analog sticks.   And if you now tell me "racing games need them" I will tell you that every SHOOTER needs a mouse and keyboard combo.


I may have worded that badly, I mean what games truly show off what the gamepad is capable of and makes u go wow I cant imagine playing this with any other control scheme. Kinda like Mario 64 did for the analog stick and Wii Sports did for motion controls.


For a launch title ZombiU was pretty cool it was and is like no other game.
Sonic allstar racing gave us 5 player coop on a single system.
Nintendoland also has (I know everyone hates the term)  asymetrical gameplay. 
Wii Party U also has cool stuff that wont work on PS4 or X1.   
Call of duty on 2 screens while playing online was great too.

The gamepad also allows me to play my games in my bedroom instead of my living room.

The Gamepad is not really a control scheme  especially not a new one since it just mimics DS controls thats another point.  For the most part It just adds minor upgrades to a single player experience but can totally change multiplayer.

Nintendos efforts so far are just little "tech demos" for the most part.  The real deal is in development

Games like the Division (which wont come to WiiU) or WatchDogs could show what the controller is capable of but I doubt they will.

The reason why most people wont see a WOW effect with Wiiu is because the DS is almost 9 years old and when you think about it the analog stick was also not that WOOOOOW. I mean 3d games worked with 8 directional movement before. The analog stick just improved it. And flight simulators already had a joystick controls before.  It was just new for a home console thats also true for the WiiU gamepad



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Soundwave said:
The Wii was never a repeatable formula. That was the problem all along.

The whole concept doesn't work unless you have a NEW incredible type of gimmick/hook to sell the system and Nintendo's R&D failed to supply it (and to be fair, to ask them to replicate that every 5-6 years is unfair, even Apple is having a hard time finding something new with the same impact as the iPod > iPhone > iPad run they've had).

There's no doubt Nintendo were trying to repeat it though. You don't put in a controller that makes up 33% of the total cost of the console unless you have a very good reason. (And I'm guessing here, but a lot of the Wii U's best tech is streaming related, so R&D for it wouldn't have been cheap).

I wonder if EAD just realised there was nothing revolutionary they could do with it from day one. The fact we haven't seen any gamepad features for upcoming games makes me think it may just be an off-tv play accessory from here on out.



bananaking21 said:
Zero999 said:
bananaking21 said:
Zero999 said:

"It serves a minimal function in most games, adds a huge cost in development, increases the price of the system for consumers"

I stopped reading after that.


i honestly want to know what you think the reason for the low WiiU sales is then. 

I honestly want to know the relation you think that exists between my post and yours.

its not hard really. the OP states there is a conflicitng philosophies between hardware and software. of course you dont need to be a genius to see that the end result is the WiiUs current failure. but since you shot down the OP's reasoning, i want to hear yours. unless, you dont have one that is. 

check the quote a few times. see this part "It serves a minimal function in most games, adds a huge cost in development, increases the price of the system for consumers"?

It was enough to know the kind of bullshit that was coming afterwards. and as I said, i didn't read.




All you have to do is play nintendoland to see what kinds of games it's capable of. Once again, it will be up to nintendo to show everyone how to be creative.



Purple said:
Soundwave said:
The Wii was never a repeatable formula. That was the problem all along.

The whole concept doesn't work unless you have a NEW incredible type of gimmick/hook to sell the system and Nintendo's R&D failed to supply it (and to be fair, to ask them to replicate that every 5-6 years is unfair, even Apple is having a hard time finding something new with the same impact as the iPod > iPhone > iPad run they've had).

There's no doubt Nintendo were trying to repeat it though. You don't put in a controller that makes up 33% of the total cost of the console unless you have a very good reason. (And I'm guessing here, but a lot of the Wii U's best tech is streaming related, so R&D for it wouldn't have been cheap).

I wonder if EAD just realised there was nothing revolutionary they could do with it from day one. The fact we haven't seen any gamepad features for upcoming games makes me think it may just be an off-tv play accessory from here on out.

bolded: sinapses said hello.



Purple said:
Soundwave said:
The Wii was never a repeatable formula. That was the problem all along.

The whole concept doesn't work unless you have a NEW incredible type of gimmick/hook to sell the system and Nintendo's R&D failed to supply it (and to be fair, to ask them to replicate that every 5-6 years is unfair, even Apple is having a hard time finding something new with the same impact as the iPod > iPhone > iPad run they've had).

There's no doubt Nintendo were trying to repeat it though. You don't put in a controller that makes up 33% of the total cost of the console unless you have a very good reason. (And I'm guessing here, but a lot of the Wii U's best tech is streaming related, so R&D for it wouldn't have been cheap).

I wonder if EAD just realised there was nothing revolutionary they could do with it from day one. The fact we haven't seen any gamepad features for upcoming games makes me think it may just be an off-tv play accessory from here on out.

The gamepad was probably the best new gimmick/hook that they could come up with. 

The vitality sensor apparently fizzled out in development. Maybe they pondering virtual reality for a while, but that was probably an easy no as it doesn't fit with Nintendo's idea of a "happy, engaged" family room (one person locked off into their own little world in a helmet) and would be far more expensive than the Game Pad even. 

They probably figured people like the touchscreen on the DS and casuals seem to be able to deal with that just fine, so lets build a system around that as the new hook. Maybe it'll save the Japanese console market too. 

A lot of these decisions were probably made around 2010 as well, back before the iPad/tablet revolution had really impacted the full market.