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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo's Conflicting Hardware and Software Philosophies

STRYKIE on 15 December 2013
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:
I do admit that the Gamepad didn't WoW me as much as motion controls did but what would be the other option? Make a regular game console and have all 3 consoles be virtually the same? Nintendo did that with the Gamecube where it was more powerful than the ps2 with the best Controller ever... Did it sell? Hardly... which is what they are afraid of...

The gamepad to me is like the 3d on the 3ds... Neither really enhances to experience but its nice to have as a luxury item... Not a day has passed when I wake up and without getting up from bed, I turn on the wiiU and play games on it and I never regretted it since... Sure the gamepad isn't zomfg but I don't think its bad by any means...

Its the first "tablet" where it felt comfortable playing games with it... In terms of experience wise... I am glad Nintendo made this decision... In terms of business wise... They should have thought of something else

I think its too soon to say that the wiiU has been defeated... Lets see how well Smash and Kart sells before we pass that judgement





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Soundwave on 15 December 2013

The system library is actually not much like the GameCube's first year at all.

The GameCube had: Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Wave Race: Blue Storm, Star Wars: Rogue Squadron II, Super Smash Bros. Melee, NBA Courtside 2002, Eternal Darkness, Star Fox Adventures, Super Mario Sunshine, Animal Crossing, Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 0 and REMake as notable exclusives.

The Wii U has: New Super Mario Bros. U, Nintendo Land, LEGO City, Sing Party!, Pikmin 3, Wii Party U, Wii Fit U, Wii Sports Club, Wonderful 101, Super Mario 3D World, Game & Wario, Mario & Sonic Sochi Olympics, Zelda: Wind Waker HD, Zombi U, as notable exclusives.

The Wii U has considerably less diversity -- tons of emphasis on party/mini-games (about 50% of their exclusives!).

It's obvious to me Nintendo was trying to recreate the Wii launch with Wii U. NSMB is supposed to be the big Nintendo IP that brings in Nintendo fans (like Zelda: TP). Nintendo Land is supposed to bring in the Wii Sports audience and demo the controller. Zombi U was the token third party 'hardcore' game (see: Red Steel). 

In actuality the Wii U is not performing anything like any previous Nintendo console. It's far worse than the GameCube right now. 



Zero999 on 15 December 2013
Fusioncode said:
Zero999 said:

"It serves a minimal function in most games, adds a huge cost in development, increases the price of the system for consumers"

I stopped reading after that.

Too many facts huh? 

crap/lies would be a more apropriate word.



Zero999 on 15 December 2013
RolStoppable said:

Yes, they had a reason: Third parties.

Instead of thinking of the Gamepad as a way to realize a touchscreen controller, you have to think of it as a way to have a dual analog controller. Simple question: Who wants or needs a dual analog controller?

1) The Wii audience? Obviously not. An important part of the Wii's success is that the dual analog controller was rejected as the standard. There's no good reason why people who were happy about that decision would want a dual analog controller for the follow-up console.

2) Nintendo's developers? When looking at their released and upcoming games, the answer is no. It's not just that they have no real use for the touch or dual screen setup, they don't need a second analog stick either.

3) Third parties? You can bet on it.

So the starting point for the Wii U controller idea was not how to put a touchscreen on a controller, but how to sell a dual analog controller which was required to make third parties consider the system. But from the consumers' perspective, Nintendo knew that they couldn't go straight back to the controller they had rejected as the standard input device, so they had to come up with something to make a dual analog controller more appealing. The Gamepad is the best they could come up with.

"But, but, but... third parties didn't ask for the Gamepad!"

Indeed, they didn't. But it's not like it is a lot of work to write the code to get some tertiary functions displayed on the Gamepad screen, so the Gamepad is far from being a hassle to developers. It's not even close to as much work as making a game playable with an entirely different controller like the Wiimote/Nunchuk setup.

"But, but, but... there's also the lack of processing power. Third parties didn't ask for such a weak console either!"

Indeed, they didn't. But approximately 75% of PS3/360 multiplatform games scheduled to release around or after Wii U launch weren't announced for the Wii U, so anyone with half a brain should be able to realize that controllers, processing power and the like just so happen to be convenient excuses for third parties. This held true in the past, it holds true in the present and it will continue to hold true in the future.

Anyway, the Wii U's mission was to get third parties on board above everything else. That's why such a flawed console was conceived and launched. Nintendo's software choices were flawed, but they pale in comparison with the hardware decisions. There is no Nintendo software that necessitated the creation of the Gamepad; and what's there just tried to desperately make use of it.

bolded: utterly ridiculous. no one rejected a second analog. it simply weren't there and many missed it.



zorg1000 on 15 December 2013
Aielyn said:
zorg1000 said:
Why? Name the games that absolutely need the gamepad and I believe Miyamoto stated it adds close to $100 on the console. There is nothing inherently wrong with that statement.

"Absolutely need" is a different issue, but games that use the Gamepad in meaningful ways include...

Pikmin 3
NintendoLand
New Super Mario Bros U
Wii Fit U
Wii Sports Club Golf
Game & Wario
Wii Party U
Wonderful 101
ZombiU
Rayman Legends

Note that this isn't a comprehensive list. It's a listing of games I can think of off the top of my head.

Ya I know there are some games that use it but no game thats like wow I cant imagine playing this without the gamepad. Wii had Wii Sports right off the bat and that game would have been 1/100th as popular had it used a standard controller. Many of those games u listed dont even require the gamepad and in Pikmins case the gamepad isnt even the most popular option.

So like the op said, Nintendo needs to release a game that fully utilizes the gamepad and shows off its full potential. If they dont then its basically a device for off TV play and map/inventory, which im fine with but many consumers may feel differently.



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Aielyn on 15 December 2013
zorg1000 said:
Ya I know there are some games that use it but no game thats like wow I cant imagine playing this without the gamepad. Wii had Wii Sports right off the bat and that game would have been 1/100th as popular had it used a standard controller. Many of those games u listed dont even require the gamepad and in Pikmins case the gamepad isnt even the most popular option.

So like the op said, Nintendo needs to release a game that fully utilizes the gamepad and shows off its full potential. If they dont then its basically a device for off TV play and map/inventory, which im fine with but many consumers may feel differently.

It all depends on your perspective. NSMB U, when played as a single-player game, sure, doesn't need the gamepad. But when you have another person to operate the gamepad, it becomes a different story, changing up how you play the game. A similar thing arises in the case of Rayman Legends.

Other games on the list I provided can be played with traditional controls, but they just don't feel the same when you do so. There are modes in NintendoLand, Game&Wario, and Wii Party U that are designed around the gamepad. Wii Fit U has multiple modes that use the gamepad in a way that just wouldn't work with traditional controls. Wii Sports Club Golf, from what I can see, will be using the Gamepad as a real target to aim the Wiimote at - meaning, the Wiimote will "see" the gamepad through its inbuilt Sensor Bar.

And yes, sometimes it's used for map/inventory. But in some cases, that's part of making the game significantly better. For instance, ZombiU uses the gamepad as an inventory screen... which, in most games, you'd pull up by pausing the game. No pausing in ZombiU - you have to do it on-the-fly, with Zombies all around. The game was lauded for this feature, which escalates the feel of it being a survival horror, something which games like Resident Evil have been eschewing in recent times.

Now, I admit that Nintendo has yet to truly provide the "killer app" for the Gamepad, the one that proves definitively that the gamepad can make a game far, far better than it would otherwise be. But they and Ubisoft have both been providing games that make innovative and significant use in ways that definitely improve those games. And I'm quite confident that Nintendo is working on such a title - I'm betting that it's simply not ready to show off.



jonathanalis on 15 December 2013

The big problem is that nintendo games are multiplayer games, and wii U have only one gamepad for console.
In games like DK, MK, smash, they have to keep the same controls, so good gamepad usage mustnt be done.



Soundwave on 15 December 2013

Nintendo tried to manufacture the "new" feeling the DS/Wii had by having the 3D screen and GamePad attempt to replicate the freshness the touchscreen (DS) and motion gaming (Wii) ... but basically they failed ... miserably.

They were able to salvage the 3DS by falling back and repositioning it as basically a new-age GBA-PSP hybrid with Monster Hunter for the Japanese market and tons of Mario/Zelda/DK until they could get Pokemon out.

The Wii U has been much harder for them, because Nintendo consoles previous to Wii were never near as strong as their recent handhelds, indeed their console business had been whittling away each successive generation outside of the Wii. They can't really fall back and reposition it as a new age GameCube, because the GameCube was never that popular in the first place (though the Wii U is even less so thus far).

You just can't manufacture things like the DS touchscreen and Wii motion crazes like clockwork. These things happen on their own time line, Nintendo was just incredibly blessed that they were able to get two of them almost side by side, but asking your R&D to replicate that is kind of like saying "well make me another franchise as popular as Mario."



bananaking21 on 15 December 2013
Zero999 said:

"It serves a minimal function in most games, adds a huge cost in development, increases the price of the system for consumers"

I stopped reading after that.


i honestly want to know what you think the reason for the low WiiU sales is then. 



Metallicube on 15 December 2013

Agreed. This is a different way of wording the argument I've been posing that Wii U is essentially a Gamecube disguised as a Wii. The games resemble the quirky and more "hardcore" games that frequented the Gamecube, and thus the Gamecube-esque sales follow. Thankfully it seems like Nintendo is starting to release the more "Wii" style games now and in 2014, with games such as Wii Sports Club, Wii Fit U, Mario Kart 8, Smash Bros, DKC, etc.. Problem is, even these are merely SEQUELS to already existing Wii games, so I can't help but feel as they too will have a more limited appeal as they will only appeal to (some) of the fanbase of the original games. What Nintendo really needs if they want to return to the sales phenomenon type games is games with entirely NEW content, if not new genres that bring in non gamers and lapsed gamers, much like Wii Fit was back in the day. Perhaps it's time for Nintendo too revive the Vitality Sensor and get to work on that relaxation game?