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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox One eSRAM Readily Available For Any Purpose, Smooths Out Optimization: Dying Light Tech Director

Vasto on 06 December 2013

A lot has been made out about the Xbox One’s eSRAM. Some have posited that it’s responsible for the limited resolutions being seen in launch titles. However, it has its uses as well. GamingBolt spoke to Techland’s Jakub Klarowicz, Technology Director for Dying Light and asked how the upcoming free run survival horror game takes advantage of eSRAM.

Does it cause any bottleneck or actually help simplify the process? According to Klarowicz, “We haven’t played around with the eSRAM much yet. Currently, we use it for storing the zbuffer and shadowmaps. The full potential of eSRAM, like the Xbox 360′s eDRAM, is yet to be realized but for now, it appears the developer is finding a number of uses for it. “It’s especially helpful because the memory is readily available for any purpose and unit: the CPU, the GPU, textures, render targets, etc. It really smoothes out the optimization process.”

We had earlier reported on the potential of the Xbox One’s eSRAM storing up to 6GB of tiled textures using a tool like Granite SDK. But as with every hardware cycle it will take time before the developers get themselves acquainted with the console’s unique benefits.

Dying Light is currently scheduled to release in 2014 for Xbox One, Xbox 360, PS3, PS4 and PC.


Read more at http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-one-esram-readily-available-for-any-purpose-smooths-out-optimization-dying-light-tech-director#sHc3tzpMR2eiI68y.99



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drkohler on 06 December 2013
Vasto said:

We had earlier reported on the potential of the Xbox One’s eSRAM storing up to 6GB of tiled textures ..

insert{doublefacepalm.gif}



gergroy on 06 December 2013
drkohler said:
Vasto said:

We had earlier reported on the potential of the Xbox One’s eSRAM storing up to 6GB of tiled textures ..

insert{doublefacepalm.gif}


why?  Honestly, I don't know anything about this stuff, but reading the source they talk about using some game engine with directx to do this.  I'm guessing this would require compression?  I don't know, but apparently it is theoretically possible, but probably not practical...



Panicnausia on 06 December 2013

More esram fud....Another game that will look better on PS4.



RenCutypoison on 06 December 2013
gergroy said:
drkohler said:
Vasto said:

We had earlier reported on the potential of the Xbox One’s eSRAM storing up to 6GB of tiled textures ..

insert{doublefacepalm.gif}


why?  Honestly, I don't know anything about this stuff, but reading the source they talk about using some game engine with directx to do this.  I'm guessing this would require compression?  I don't know, but apparently it is theoretically possible, but probably not practical...


6GB > 32mb, compression or not. It can store 6GB of tiled textures, just one 32mb tiled at a time lolz



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gergroy on 06 December 2013
RenCutypoison said:
gergroy said:
drkohler said:
Vasto said:

We had earlier reported on the potential of the Xbox One’s eSRAM storing up to 6GB of tiled textures ..

insert{doublefacepalm.gif}


why?  Honestly, I don't know anything about this stuff, but reading the source they talk about using some game engine with directx to do this.  I'm guessing this would require compression?  I don't know, but apparently it is theoretically possible, but probably not practical...


6GB > 32mb, compression or not. It can store 6GB of tiled textures, just one 32mb tiled at a time lolz

do you not understand how compression works?  I'm not saying that is what is happening here, because honestly I have no clue.  However, I do know that if you compress a file, you can reduce the amount of total memory that file takes to make it faster to transfer and then you can unpack it back to its original size once it has been moved.  

For example, I could download a zip file off the internet, and it is only 100 mb, when I unzip and install it, it could be over a gig or something like that.  



DD_Bwest on 06 December 2013

DDR3 + eSRAM > just DDR3

are we supposed to be surprised? this is like saying crutches make it easier to get around with a broken leg.



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Ha.. i won my bet, but i wasnt around to gloat because im on a better forum!  See ya guys on Viz

RenCutypoison on 06 December 2013
gergroy said:
RenCutypoison said:
gergroy said:
drkohler said:
Vasto said:

We had earlier reported on the potential of the Xbox One’s eSRAM storing up to 6GB of tiled textures ..

insert{doublefacepalm.gif}


why?  Honestly, I don't know anything about this stuff, but reading the source they talk about using some game engine with directx to do this.  I'm guessing this would require compression?  I don't know, but apparently it is theoretically possible, but probably not practical...


6GB > 32mb, compression or not. It can store 6GB of tiled textures, just one 32mb tiled at a time lolz

do you not understand how compression works?  I'm not saying that is what is happening here, because honestly I have no clue.  However, I do know that if you compress a file, you can reduce the amount of total memory that file takes to make it faster to transfer and then you can unpack it back to its original size once it has been moved.  

For example, I could download a zip file off the internet, and it is only 100 mb, when I unzip and install it, it could be over a gig or something like that.  


You made my day.

I know how compression works, that said, if a texture is possible to compress WITHOUT loss, it's already done.

And if you can compress a 6 GB texture to 32 mb, trust me, it will look like N64. Seriously.



RenCutypoison on 06 December 2013
shikamaru317 said:
gergroy said:
RenCutypoison said:


6GB > 32mb, compression or not. It can store 6GB of tiled textures, just one 32mb tiled at a time lolz

do you not understand how compression works?  I'm not saying that is what is happening here, because honestly I have no clue.  However, I do know that if you compress a file, you can reduce the amount of total memory that file takes to make it faster to transfer and then you can unpack it back to its original size once it has been moved.  

For example, I could download a zip file off the internet, and it is only 100 mb, when I unzip and install it, it could be over a gig or something like that.  

From what I've read about DX 11.2 and Tiled Resources, this is pretty much how it works. High res textures are compressed and stored onto graphics memory, or in the case of the Xbox One, likely the eSRAM due to it's higher bandwidth compared to the DDR3. These compressed textures are split into multiple layers, or tiles, and then the engine decides in real-time the priority level for each tile based on the exact scene being rendered, and then quickly uncompresses and streams each tile one by one from the memory to the GPU, where they are rendered. Theoretically the high speed of the Xbox One's eSRAM should allow high-res textures with minimal texture pop-in, theoretically. So far we haven't seen this technology in practice except in tech demos, but if it works as advertised, it should be a very useful tool for Xbox One developers.


Better bandwith is nice, but still, working with only 32mb at a time will be a pain in the ass. I still think that will be slow as fuck. But I'm not skilled enough to know this stuff. I hate hardware shit.

Edit : It's also not only about the bus speed, I think an algorithm would work faster treating a full picture at once, not tile per tile.



thewayofthepath on 06 December 2013
gergroy said:
RenCutypoison said:
gergroy said:
drkohler said:
Vasto said:

We had earlier reported on the potential of the Xbox One’s eSRAM storing up to 6GB of tiled textures ..

insert{doublefacepalm.gif}


why?  Honestly, I don't know anything about this stuff, but reading the source they talk about using some game engine with directx to do this.  I'm guessing this would require compression?  I don't know, but apparently it is theoretically possible, but probably not practical...


6GB > 32mb, compression or not. It can store 6GB of tiled textures, just one 32mb tiled at a time lolz

do you not understand how compression works?  I'm not saying that is what is happening here, because honestly I have no clue.  However, I do know that if you compress a file, you can reduce the amount of total memory that file takes to make it faster to transfer and then you can unpack it back to its original size once it has been moved.  

For example, I could download a zip file off the internet, and it is only 100 mb, when I unzip and install it, it could be over a gig or something like that.  

ETC2 texture compression, which is now part of the OpenGL standard, gives six times lossy compression for 24 bit textures.  32MB would only yeild the equivalent of 192MB.

Overview:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ericsson_Texture_Compression

Detailed paper:  https://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/developers/library/2012-siggraph-opengl-es-bof/Ericsson-ETC2-SIGGRAPH_Aug12.pdf

Of course, XBox One most likely uses something based off S3TC.

Zip would be useless as it takes too long to decompress in a 60 fps realtime setting.  (Or 30 fps, if you prefer.)