Forums - Sales Discussion - Generation 8 Prediction Time Worldwide

The_Liquid_Laser said:

Uhm, let's just forget most of this discussion, and focus on your concept of generations and game library.  You know that the PS4 runs lots of generation 7 games like GTA5 and the Last of Us right?  That doesn't make it generation 7.  It also has plenty of games unique to it like God of War 4 and Spider-Man and Horizon Zero Dawn.  That is what makes it a different generation.  Some of the games have to be unique, but not all.

Oh this one is easy.

Yes the PS4 has some PS3 ports. But thats akin to saying something is BC. If it were fully BC like say the XB1 that doesn't make it a 7th gen machine or the 360 an 8th gen machine.

The difference is that while the NS will run a good number of PS4/XB1 games. All that ends with the PS5/XB4. So if we find that it doesnt get a single game from the generation of the PS5/XB4, how can we say its in the same generation with them when the games it does/did get were from the PS4/XB1 generation?

Another way to look at it is using whatever the lead platform is for any given gen. Come the next gen, the lead platform for games will be either a PS5/XB4. And if games are made to run on those consoles with their specs in mind, it will be practically impossible to port that game to the NS. The tech divide is just too great. Its one thing hacking a game down from running on like 5GB of RAM to like 3GB. Its another thing hacking it down from like 12GB-16GB or even 20GB down to 3GB.

Last way to look at it..... if it gets like say 90% of its multiplats from the 8th gen library of games and only like 10% from the 9th gen, then its an 8th gen machine. Especially when its successor ends up getting 100% of its multiplats from the 9th gen library of games. 

Last edited by Intrinsic - on 21 December 2018

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The_Liquid_Laser said:
Intrinsic said:

If its all of the above then I fear you are very wrong.

By definition of generations

Video game generations are defined by the dominant game console in their marketplace. Anytime there is a significant shift in the marketplace leader to a new hardware model' that signals the start of a new generation.

The WiiU was the start of a new generation because nintendo was the market leader of the previous one. The PS4 is the market leader in this current generation and the hardware nintendo has brought forward will in no way drive game design technology forward because its based on on 5 yr old tech.  

Secondly you have to look at the software, the NS shares its game library with 8th gen platforms. And chances are when those platforms release 9th gen hardware NS will probably not et a single game from them. Until the NS2 that is. But lets see.. the NS can play games like oblivion and doom and fortnite. All games that arent available on the WiiU. S what happens when it cant play the iterations of those games on other "9th gen" hardware when they come? Does that make them 10th gen hardware instead?

If a Vita 2 launched this year and was getting the same games that the Switch and PS4/XB1 are getting then its an 8th gen machine too. 

But if you want to really be anal abut all this? This is how its really supposed to look like.


- NS is nintendo's first generation hybrid console or their 7th generation home console or their 5th generation handheld console. Depending on how yu see the switch.

- PS4 is sony's 4th generation console and XB1 is microsofts 3rd gen console.

But if you are gonna group them' then the only sensible thing to do is group them by what they all share in common (which is and always is games) and not something as arbitrary as when its released. Cause that were the case we really shuld be in the 12th gen by if you look at what happened with the atari 2600. Its successor was released around 4yrs after it but didnt catch on so they just grouped it into the same generation. Kinda what happened with the WiiU and Switch.......

Sorry to break it t you, but nintendo released two consoles in the 8th gen. Their 9th gen console will show up sometime in 2023 or so.

Uhm, let's just forget most of this discussion, and focus on your concept of generations and game library.  You know that the PS4 runs lots of generation 7 games like GTA5 and the Last of Us right?  That doesn't make it generation 7.  It also has plenty of games unique to it like God of War 4 and Spider-Man and Horizon Zero Dawn.  That is what makes it a different generation.  Some of the games have to be unique, but not all.

Playstation 4's game library is primarily made up of Generation 8 titles. (Not counting old classic/emulated PS1 games, etc.)

So to figure out in which generation a console belongs, I'd say you can look at where the majority of it's new releases come from.
That is the best definition of a console generation I have come across, as it will most certainly always pan out this way every time, meaning it won't run into the same contradictions that other definitions tend to.

For instance, "Power is irrelevant" is a popular one. This is not entirely true. And we can see that by making an extreme example. If Sony's Playstation 5 is an 8-bit console, while the next Xbox and Nintendo systems are around as powerful as XBO and Switch are now, Playstation 5 will get 0 current gen games from third parties.

Any company can technically, if they want to, re-enter the same generation again with a new piece of hardware. Neo Geo did that at one point with a CD based console replacing their cartridge based system. The specs were still the same, but that's not the point. There's no unwritten rule the console manufacturers have to follow. They can essentially release whatever system they want, but they will always want to strike a balance between cost efficiency, and what developers want to work with.
PS4 Pro has better specs than PS4, but is designed to primarily take advantage of the same exact games on the market, as it's weaker version.
But unlike PS4 Pro which was planned from the start, Nintendo did not plan on WiiU being so poorly received, causing them to undoubtedly escalate the release of their next gen console. Because of that they ended up with a system that's primarily designed to handle games developed with Gen 8 technology. (And it struggles to do that most of the time, since it's also a handheld, which is the tradeoff.)
It's fair to say that Switch is Nintendo's next gen system, but when we look at what games it is designed for, it's not made for next generation games.

What's mostly relevant in these situations is the game library.
Sony can release an 8-bit system based PS5 seven years after PS4 was launched, and people can call it a Generation 9 system. But if it can't run Generation 9 games, there's no point in calling it that.
So where do you draw the line? If it has 1 single 'Generation 9' game, and 1000 'Gen 8' games?
Or 5 'Gen 9' games, and 995 'Gen 8' games?

That's why I think 'the majority' is a fair assessment.
If you have a better definition, that none of the previous systems contradict, then by all means, I'd very much like to hear it.

Last edited by Hiku - on 21 December 2018

Hiku said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Uhm, let's just forget most of this discussion, and focus on your concept of generations and game library.  You know that the PS4 runs lots of generation 7 games like GTA5 and the Last of Us right?  That doesn't make it generation 7.  It also has plenty of games unique to it like God of War 4 and Spider-Man and Horizon Zero Dawn.  That is what makes it a different generation.  Some of the games have to be unique, but not all.

Playstation 4's game library is primarily made up of Generation 8 titles. (Not counting old classic/emulated PS1 games, etc.)

So to figure out in which generation a console belongs, I'd say you can look at where the majority of it's new releases come from.
That is the best definition of a console generation I have come across, as it will most certainly always pan out this way every time, meaning it won't run into the same contradictions that other definitions tend to.

For instance, "Power is irrelevant" is a popular one. This is not entirely true. And we can see that by making an extreme example. If Sony's Playstation 5 is an 8-bit console, while the next Xbox and Nintendo systems are around as powerful as XBO and Switch are now, Playstation 5 will get 0 current gen games from third parties.

Any company can technically, if they want to, re-enter the same generation again with a new piece of hardware. Neo Geo did that at one point with a CD based console replacing their cartridge based system. The specs were still the same, but that's not the point. There's no unwritten rule the console manufacturers have to follow. They can essentially release whatever system they want, but they will always want to strike a balance between cost efficiency, and what developers want to work with.
PS4 Pro has better specs than PS4, but is designed to primarily take advantage of the same exact games on the market, as it's weaker version.
But unlike PS4 Pro which was planned from the start, Nintendo did not plan on WiiU being so poorly received, causing them to undoubtedly escalate the release of their next gen console. Because of that they ended up with a system that's primarily designed to handle games developed with Gen 8 technology. (And it struggles to do that most of the time, since it's also a handheld, which is the tradeoff.)
It's fair to say that Switch is Nintendo's next gen system, but when we look at what games it is designed for, it's not made for next generation games.

What's mostly relevant in these situations is the game library.
Sony can release an 8-bit system based PS5 seven years after PS4 was launched, and people can call it a Generation 9 system. But if it can't run Generation 9 games, there's no point in calling it that.
So where do you draw the line? If it has 1 single 'Generation 9' game, and 1000 'Gen 8' games?
Or 5 'Gen 9' games, and 995 'Gen 8' games?

That's why I think 'the majority' is a fair assessment.
If you have a better definition, that none of the previous systems contradict, then by all means, I'd very much like to hear it.

The problem with this definition, is that it is very common for consoles to get a ton of ports during the first couple of years.  Every console is going to look "last gen" at first if you look at it's early library of games.  Really after the first year or so the PS4 would be called a generation 7 console using this definition.

The clearest definition that works in every situation not related to the video game crash is this:  If a company waits 4-7 years and then releases a successor, then it is a next generation system.  This definition has worked for a very long time.  Why change now?