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Forums - Politics Discussion - If Obamacare fails, then what?

Universal Healthcare will never work in the U.S unless sweeping changes were made to the tax code and the abolishment of a ton of government programs and handouts. There also has to be an actual budget plan and EVERYONE has to be in the program. Look what's happened already, government officials, big corporations, and unions are not in Obamacare. Not one of these things will EVER happen so it will not work. Besides, I hate the idea of Universal Health Care anyways but I would be willing to give it a go if all these things were in check.



I went outside once, the graphics were great but the gameplay sucked!

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Mr Khan said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Obama care is the biggest joke I've seen in a while. It proclaims universal and cheap health-care and yet people premiums and the overall expenses of health care are rising through the roof.

*citation needed.

http://tinyurl.com/onsw58w 



If it fail then what? I'm moving to fucking Canada where they actually believe that free education, free medical care and taking care of the elderly is a GOOD thing. Lol



NobleTeam360 said:
Mr Khan said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Obama care is the biggest joke I've seen in a while. It proclaims universal and cheap health-care and yet people premiums and the overall expenses of health care are rising through the roof.

*citation needed.

http://tinyurl.com/onsw58w 

"policy advisor to Mitt Romney"

hmm...



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

I don't know. I guess if you were sick and you had a pre-existing condition and couldn't get insurance ( basically the boat I'm in ) you would have to take a gun to a hospital, take one of the docs hostage and demand that he treat you or die trying. It's what the Republicans want you to do any way, Funny how they always say they're the people that cherishes freedom, so much, yet they're always against a little anarchy. I wonder why.



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Mr Khan said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Mr Khan said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Obama care is the biggest joke I've seen in a while. It proclaims universal and cheap health-care and yet people premiums and the overall expenses of health care are rising through the roof.

*citation needed.

http://tinyurl.com/onsw58w 

"policy advisor to Mitt Romney"

hmm...

lol... I missed that but I do still believe there is truth behind this as I've seen several senators say the same thing on CSPAN. 



SlayerRondo said:
Tigerlure said:
sc94597 said:
Tigerlure said:

For my Republican friends, please note that leaving it to the free market is not a good answer.

Yep, it's not a good answer, it's the best answer. Unfortunately we haven't had a free-market in most of healthcare since the 50's. Just look at eye-care and its low-costs and you can see how a free-market (free from government priveleged insurance companies) can reduce prices and make something affordable.  


I shudder at the thought of a true "free-market". Insurance companies hiking up prices whenever they want, dropping people off insurance, refusing to cover medical treatments at a whim. 

The free-market you're talking about won't happen because there is simply not enough competition. In my area, we're almost monopolized with Blue Cross Blue Shield. Imagine if they were completely unregulated.

You seem to have a poor understanding of the free market if that's your opinion of what would happen if insurance companies went that way. If an insurance company dropped people off for no reason, refused to provide promised coverage and just hicked up prices for no reason, the free market allows for people to switch to a better insurance company. 

The problem is that we as a society have continualy had personal responsibility taken away from us by the state creating a class of reliant people who receive welfare in return for their votes essentially. People have the ability to question insurance companies, learn what they offer (actually reading your insurance contract) and spread their opinions and review them so that we can judge insurance companies by their reputation and not because they had a snappy advertisement on tv.

And while there may be a need for more insurance companies, the primary reason why we have so few new entries is the overwhelming regulatory burden that the government has created preventing new entries into the industry. The government proclaims a love of competition but puts up massive barriers so new entries cant bear the cost, which of course the big companies love and the regulatory cost is nothing for them compared to the cost of competing.

Also the additional cost of Obamacare is likely to increase the government debt to GDP ratio that has toped 100% as we slowly approach the levels seen post World War 2. And unlike Greece we don't have the EU to bail us out.


And you've obviously haven't dealt with an insurance company trying to pay for a surgery like I have, or else you wouldn't make such a ridiculous statement. As I said, in some parts of the country, there is 1 or 2 who controls a market (for example, Alabama). Even if there were no burdens on companies to enter the market, what would stop insurance companies from doing what they already do right now?

Oh, and I suggest you take an Econ 101 course before you start talking about Debt-to-GDP. You'd be surprised at exactly what impact it has on a country like the United States (hint: not much).



NobleTeam360 said:
Mr Khan said:

"policy advisor to Mitt Romney"

hmm...

lol... I missed that but I do still believe there is truth behind this as I've seen several senators say the same thing on CSPAN. 

I'll admit i was attempting to deflect there, though it brings up a valid point as the article definitely reads biased. The problem that we have to examine is about more than costs, but about levels of coverage. There are a few metrics that need to be considered before we say "premiums are increasing," and condemn that. One, is the amount of your coverage increasing at least proportionally to the increase in premiums? A lot of these substandard plans that are being canceled were very bad plans that would really leave you in the lurch if you got a bad disease. Are the plans on the exchanges more expensive compared to the coverage that you're getting vs the coverage you received before? What level of federal subsidies do you qualify for? Has your state participated in the medicaid expansion and do you, in fact, now qualify for medicaid?

There's going to be a lot of FUD floating around because the nature of the law makes it easy to spread FUD about it, but the degree of people who are really going to be worse off under the law is not nearly as large as some would have us believe.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Dump the insurance companies and their CEO's and stuff that make multi million dollar profits of cutting people out of their health insurance.

Anyone who thinks 'free market' and 'health care' should go together has been drinking too much koch.

So much of the world has better health care than the USA and they pay many times less. Fact USA's health care is only slightly better than Mexico's yet cost 7 times as much.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Tigerlure said:
SlayerRondo said:
Tigerlure said:
sc94597 said:
Tigerlure said:

For my Republican friends, please note that leaving it to the free market is not a good answer.

Yep, it's not a good answer, it's the best answer. Unfortunately we haven't had a free-market in most of healthcare since the 50's. Just look at eye-care and its low-costs and you can see how a free-market (free from government priveleged insurance companies) can reduce prices and make something affordable.  


I shudder at the thought of a true "free-market". Insurance companies hiking up prices whenever they want, dropping people off insurance, refusing to cover medical treatments at a whim. 

The free-market you're talking about won't happen because there is simply not enough competition. In my area, we're almost monopolized with Blue Cross Blue Shield. Imagine if they were completely unregulated.

You seem to have a poor understanding of the free market if that's your opinion of what would happen if insurance companies went that way. If an insurance company dropped people off for no reason, refused to provide promised coverage and just hicked up prices for no reason, the free market allows for people to switch to a better insurance company. 

The problem is that we as a society have continualy had personal responsibility taken away from us by the state creating a class of reliant people who receive welfare in return for their votes essentially. People have the ability to question insurance companies, learn what they offer (actually reading your insurance contract) and spread their opinions and review them so that we can judge insurance companies by their reputation and not because they had a snappy advertisement on tv.

And while there may be a need for more insurance companies, the primary reason why we have so few new entries is the overwhelming regulatory burden that the government has created preventing new entries into the industry. The government proclaims a love of competition but puts up massive barriers so new entries cant bear the cost, which of course the big companies love and the regulatory cost is nothing for them compared to the cost of competing.

Also the additional cost of Obamacare is likely to increase the government debt to GDP ratio that has toped 100% as we slowly approach the levels seen post World War 2. And unlike Greece we don't have the EU to bail us out.


And you've obviously haven't dealt with an insurance company trying to pay for a surgery like I have, or else you wouldn't make such a ridiculous statement. As I said, in some parts of the country, there is 1 or 2 who controls a market (for example, Alabama). Even if there were no burdens on companies to enter the market, what would stop insurance companies from doing what they already do right now?

Oh, and I suggest you take an Econ 101 course before you start talking about Debt-to-GDP. You'd be surprised at exactly what impact it has on a country like the United States (hint: not much).

If there were more competition and people actually paid more attention to the companies they were engaging the services of then they would create massive incentives for companies to avoid negative PR, loss of customers by offering a superior service which would not fight people on surgery claims like the one you were engaged with. I dont understand why people care so much about things like game reviews but so little about the reputation of their insurance provider.

I don't know how you are able to claim that an increasing debt to GDP ratio would not have a devestating effect on a nation like America as the only time we ever came close to 100% before was WW2 and after that we were able to reduce spending because we were not fighting a war. 

And yes the problem with the debt to GDP ratio is that their is no severe impact on the American people other than an increasing portion of government revenue going to servicing the debt. Just like someone who has a credit card seems to be doing fine, even well spending large amounts of borrowed money in ever increasing amounts. But things go wrong very quickly when the idiot with huge amounts of debt (the US government) can no longer service the massive amounts of debt they have accumulated and Default. 

Greece had far too much Dept to GDP and defaulted, forcing them to beg the EU for bailouts, TWICE. If America defaults, who is going to bail us out?



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