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Forums - Nintendo - NeoGAF: Wii U GPU 160 ALUs, 8 TMUs and 8 ROPs

darkknightkryta on 07 November 2013
forethought14 said:
darkknightkryta said:
There's a certain person on this forum who's currently working on a Wii U title. Maybe if you ask her politely for an "estimate" she might be able to give you one.

I don't think she'll know ALU amounts, because that's not included in documentation. I think a better question would be how it compares to the previous generation. Consensus says that it's a bit more powerful than the 360, however comparisons aren't as easy as looking at the list of "flops, IPC, BW etc", because the architectures of each system is designed very differently. 

Why wouldn't she?  nylevia knew and he wasn't even currently working on a title. 



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fatslob-:O on 07 November 2013
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
forethought14 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Read my edit. :-p

Edit: I almost forgot, the wii u also has more memory to allow it to store better textures so that's one factor for it being able to get better visuals and maybe performance. Oh and I think nylevia would agree with pemalite's and my assessment of the wii u being more "powerful" but technically I would rather use the word more "efficient" because its more appropriate to the situation at hand.

Edit: My attitude was a mix of both negativity and neutral.

Well, memory isn't a metric for determining "power", even 1GB of RAM would do wonders for PS360, but it won't suddenly bust out a bunch more graphics processing power, there will simly be more room for nicer stuff and such with extra RAM. Like Frozenbyte's comments on Wii U's graphics processing power being enough to handle the expansion of Trine 2, while for the PS360 it would need to be downscaled. Several things they added wouldn't be benifited by having more RAM, but by having more raw power, which Wii U had for them. Not a considerable amount, but enough to handle those extra graphics processes. 

Memory isn't a metric for power but the wii u would still lose in terms of the standard metric of power.

 

Do you have a statement of them saying that trine 2 directors cut is limited by "power" ? There are more than one factors for graphics performance other than proceaaing power.

"the Wii U is a truly powerful console. The console is definitely more powerful than the Xbox 360 and PS3" - Julius Fondem, Frozenbyte.

http://gamersxtreme.org/2013/07/08/developer-interview-with-frozenbyte-wii-u-is-a-truly-powerful-console/

How about the line before ?



curl-6 on 07 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

Even if these specs are correct, it should still decidely outperform the PS3 and 360 GPUs due to its DX10/11 features such as geometry shaders, (confirmed by Black Forest Games: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/09/developer_interview_black_forest_games_on_bringing_giana_sisters_twisted_dreams_to_wii_u ) and having 32MB of eDRAM compared to 10MB on 360.

It's not going to give a high end PC or the PS4 a run for their money in terms of tech, but it will show us things we never saw on current gen.

Clearly Nintendo targeted power efficiency, low cost, reliability over power, and I'm okay with that.

As long as it can produce games as beautiful as this, sign me up:

I wouldn't be relying too much on the hd 5000 series of geometey shaders. (They were pretty terrible so don't expext something too different from the amd latte graphics processor.) I would put my money on their compute shader even though it's not that great it's still worlds better than amds geometry shader.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpj8-1Mi0Nc

 

See those nice transparency effects ? 

 

This would be a very hard scene for both the ps360 to handle because they both lack an append buffer to support the type of performance in this demo. The effect shown in this demo you see is order-independent transparency. Alpha blending doesn't cut ot for me. So the WII U should be able to achieve this affect to a smaller degree which is mighty impressive.

 

DX11 features seemed pretty worthwhile to Black Forest Games, they noted their usefulness in the interview.



curl-6 on 07 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
forethought14 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Read my edit. :-p

Edit: I almost forgot, the wii u also has more memory to allow it to store better textures so that's one factor for it being able to get better visuals and maybe performance. Oh and I think nylevia would agree with pemalite's and my assessment of the wii u being more "powerful" but technically I would rather use the word more "efficient" because its more appropriate to the situation at hand.

Edit: My attitude was a mix of both negativity and neutral.

Well, memory isn't a metric for determining "power", even 1GB of RAM would do wonders for PS360, but it won't suddenly bust out a bunch more graphics processing power, there will simly be more room for nicer stuff and such with extra RAM. Like Frozenbyte's comments on Wii U's graphics processing power being enough to handle the expansion of Trine 2, while for the PS360 it would need to be downscaled. Several things they added wouldn't be benifited by having more RAM, but by having more raw power, which Wii U had for them. Not a considerable amount, but enough to handle those extra graphics processes. 

Memory isn't a metric for power but the wii u would still lose in terms of the standard metric of power.

 

Do you have a statement of them saying that trine 2 directors cut is limited by "power" ? There are more than one factors for graphics performance other than proceaaing power.

"the Wii U is a truly powerful console. The console is definitely more powerful than the Xbox 360 and PS3" - Julius Fondem, Frozenbyte.

http://gamersxtreme.org/2013/07/08/developer-interview-with-frozenbyte-wii-u-is-a-truly-powerful-console/

How about the line before ?

Does not contradict the quoted statement about it overpowering PS3 and 360.



forethought14 on 07 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:

How about the line before ?

Ok, so you skipped what I said then?

Mikael Haveri said: 

Basically that does require... well, not huge amounts more graphics processing power, but still considerable. If we would publish that

on other consoles, then I believe that there would be some small downscaling of what it is right now

http://www.videogamer.com/wiiu/trine_2/news/wii_u_graphics_would_need_to_be_scaled_back_on_xbox_360_and_ps3.html

It's clear that they're specifically mentioning "processing power", hopefully you won't make an attempt to twist the wording...

 

darkknightkryta said:

Why wouldn't she?  nylevia knew and he wasn't even currently working on a title. 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=82706817&postcount=10300

Look at the second line. The documentation may have other information that would allow one to figure out the shader count though...



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fatslob-:O on 07 November 2013
forethought14 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Memory isn't a metric for power but the wii u would still lose in terms of the standard metric of power.

Do you have a statement of them saying that trine 2 directors cut is limited by "power" ? There are more than one factors for graphics performance other than proceaaing power.

 

Mikael Haveri said: 

Basically that does require... well, not huge amounts more graphics processing power, but still considerable. If we would publish that

on other consoles, then I believe that there would be some small downscaling of what it is right now

http://www.videogamer.com/wiiu/trine_2/news/wii_u_graphics_would_need_to_be_scaled_back_on_xbox_360_and_ps3.html

I know that there are more factors for graphics performance, but he clearly says that the expansion requires MORE graphics processing power than the current generation of consoles to run. 

Processing power in terms of what ? In terms of being able to get closer with the theoretical performance ? Sure 

 

They don't sound specific as to what they were limited by. Are they talking about the cpu ? Do they mean raw shading power ? Could they be talking about fillrates ? In terms of integer calculations ?



darkknightkryta on 07 November 2013
forethought14 said:

darkknightkryta said:

Why wouldn't she?  nylevia knew and he wasn't even currently working on a title. 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=82706817&postcount=10300

Look at the second line. The documentation may have other information that would allow one to figure out the shader count though...

Like I said " Maybe if you ask her politely for an "estimate" she might be able to give you one."



curl-6 on 07 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:
forethought14 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Memory isn't a metric for power but the wii u would still lose in terms of the standard metric of power.

Do you have a statement of them saying that trine 2 directors cut is limited by "power" ? There are more than one factors for graphics performance other than proceaaing power.

 

Mikael Haveri said: 

Basically that does require... well, not huge amounts more graphics processing power, but still considerable. If we would publish that

on other consoles, then I believe that there would be some small downscaling of what it is right now

http://www.videogamer.com/wiiu/trine_2/news/wii_u_graphics_would_need_to_be_scaled_back_on_xbox_360_and_ps3.html

I know that there are more factors for graphics performance, but he clearly says that the expansion requires MORE graphics processing power than the current generation of consoles to run. 

Processing power in terms of what ? In terms of being able to get closer with the theoretical performance ? Sure 

 

They don't sound specific as to what they were limited by. Are they talking about the cpu ? Do they mean raw shading power ? Could they be talking about fillrates ? In terms of integer calculations ?

Now you're just formulating excuses. Of course they're not going to give down-and-dirty technical analysis of TMUs, FLOPS, and ALUs, they're under NDA.

Their statements about it requiring more processing power, and their point-blank statement that Wii U is more powerful than PS3/360 speak for themselves, no amount of twisting can nullify that.



fatslob-:O on 07 November 2013
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
forethought14 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Read my edit. :-p

Edit: I almost forgot, the wii u also has more memory to allow it to store better textures so that's one factor for it being able to get better visuals and maybe performance. Oh and I think nylevia would agree with pemalite's and my assessment of the wii u being more "powerful" but technically I would rather use the word more "efficient" because its more appropriate to the situation at hand.

Edit: My attitude was a mix of both negativity and neutral.

Well, memory isn't a metric for determining "power", even 1GB of RAM would do wonders for PS360, but it won't suddenly bust out a bunch more graphics processing power, there will simly be more room for nicer stuff and such with extra RAM. Like Frozenbyte's comments on Wii U's graphics processing power being enough to handle the expansion of Trine 2, while for the PS360 it would need to be downscaled. Several things they added wouldn't be benifited by having more RAM, but by having more raw power, which Wii U had for them. Not a considerable amount, but enough to handle those extra graphics processes. 

Memory isn't a metric for power but the wii u would still lose in terms of the standard metric of power.

 

Do you have a statement of them saying that trine 2 directors cut is limited by "power" ? There are more than one factors for graphics performance other than proceaaing power.

"the Wii U is a truly powerful console. The console is definitely more powerful than the Xbox 360 and PS3" - Julius Fondem, Frozenbyte.

http://gamersxtreme.org/2013/07/08/developer-interview-with-frozenbyte-wii-u-is-a-truly-powerful-console/

How about the line before ?

Does not contradict the quoted statement about it overpowering PS3 and 360.

"Power" is a very vague term and it sounds like they got more help from the memory to be able to have a better output on the WII U.



fatslob-:O on 07 November 2013
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
forethought14 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Read my edit. :-p

Edit: I almost forgot, the wii u also has more memory to allow it to store better textures so that's one factor for it being able to get better visuals and maybe performance. Oh and I think nylevia would agree with pemalite's and my assessment of the wii u being more "powerful" but technically I would rather use the word more "efficient" because its more appropriate to the situation at hand.

Edit: My attitude was a mix of both negativity and neutral.

Well, memory isn't a metric for determining "power", even 1GB of RAM would do wonders for PS360, but it won't suddenly bust out a bunch more graphics processing power, there will simly be more room for nicer stuff and such with extra RAM. Like Frozenbyte's comments on Wii U's graphics processing power being enough to handle the expansion of Trine 2, while for the PS360 it would need to be downscaled. Several things they added wouldn't be benifited by having more RAM, but by having more raw power, which Wii U had for them. Not a considerable amount, but enough to handle those extra graphics processes. 

Memory isn't a metric for power but the wii u would still lose in terms of the standard metric of power.

 

Do you have a statement of them saying that trine 2 directors cut is limited by "power" ? There are more than one factors for graphics performance other than proceaaing power.

"the Wii U is a truly powerful console. The console is definitely more powerful than the Xbox 360 and PS3" - Julius Fondem, Frozenbyte.

http://gamersxtreme.org/2013/07/08/developer-interview-with-frozenbyte-wii-u-is-a-truly-powerful-console/

How about the line before ?

Does not contradict the quoted statement about it overpowering PS3 and 360.

"Power" is a very vague term and it sounds like they got more help from the memory to be able to have a better output on the WII U.