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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What's With Wii's Low Review Scores?

Edouble24 said:

The fact that the controls don't work at all during boxing isn't a flaw? If that was intended then it was a really bad decision on Nintendo's part. The Tennis controls could also use a bit of work, as could the controls for golf(I'll admit I might just suck as golf). Bowling is really fun but it's hardly accurate either, should it be? I think so.

The controls for Wii Sports are a bit too simple to the point where it's not picking up and advance form of movement, just basic movement. The boxing controls are an absolute mess so I don't think I need to get into that. Tennis, while it works well it could be much better, When I swing back-handed the game doesn't always pick that up, cause my Mii to swing the wrong way and for the ball to go out of bounds.

Wii Sports is a good game but it's very early, If Nintendo gave it another go I promise you they could make a game worthy of a 10 if they nail the motion controls. But Wii Sports as it is does indeed have flaws and limited motion controls, which is what the game is based around.

 


 Eh? Boxing controls are fine. Most people who criticize them are just upset that their flailing doesn't translate into automatic victory. You actually have to box. Throwing three punches every second never won Cassius Clay any titles. Keep up a tight defense and exploit weaknesses in your enemy's guard and you can achieve a 2000+ rating. just like Doc says in Punch Out, "Dodge his punch, then counter-punch."

Tennis simply has the best controls of any of the Sports games, but most people can't figure out how important position relative to the ball is. They also fail to hold the wiimote in a neutral position where they can swing backhanded, which means when a player who hurriedly get his arm in position for a backhand, the game interprets it as a forehand swing. What's funny is the game doesn't care if you swing backhanded or forehanded, it just looks for the motion. However, if you lift the wiimote up while you swing, you'll lob the ball high. Swing down and the ball may not clear the net. Tennis is the easiest sport to get a 2000+ rating in.

Bowling is the most challenging, because you aren't competing against an opponent. You can't exploit their weaknesses, you have to work to achieve personal perfection. You have to achieve a consistant swing and position yourself so that your consistant swing gets strikes. I have a hard time keeping my swing consistant, so I hover around a 1k rating. My brother-in-law does have a consistant swing, and scores much better.

 Golf is the only sport that really has control issues, and it's mostly just putting, which is far too sensitive. There are tricks to putt effectively, but they completely break the immersion. Golf is a boring sport anyway. :P

Wii Sports is deeper than most people give it credit for.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

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Phendrana said:
Stever89 said:
Edouble24 said:
 

This is why I made the movie comparison, just because a lot of people like something doesn't mean it should score well. Lots of games sell well that are heavily flawed. Why is Mario and Sonic selling? Maybe because Mario and Sonic are on the cover. If someone is writing an opinionated review and gives Mario and Sonic a 10, fine, but the game has some bluntly obvious flaws that most reviewers simply can't ignore.

You can get good sales from advertising a poor product, just because people bought into the hype doesn't make it good.

And Smash Brothers was always intended to be a party game, why wouldn't it be?


I've never considered SSB:M a party game... but I don't know. I guess my definition of a party game is slightly different than yours.

And I think what Bod was trying to point out is that every movie reviewer, will normally review movies similarly. Good movies get good reviews. Bad movies will get bad reviews. If two average reviews review a movie, they will respond with similar reviews. So even movies that lack a real story, such as Date Movie or Scary Movie, will get reviews based on what the movie is suppose to do, and not what they (the reviewer) wants it to do. Not saying that bad movies will do bad, though that is usually the case. I can't think of one "ok" movie that did "really great." If you know of a movie that has a really bad average (or even just a bad average), yet did really well in the boxoffice and in DVD sales, let me know. Critics who like action movies will fairly rate a comedy movie.

Game critics on the other hand mostly review based on their likes and dislikes. And there are a large number of games that sell a lot better than their averages would indicate, and I don't even think that applies to party games. MySims (which I wouldn't consider a party game, since it lacks multiplayer as far as I know, and has a story line and unlockables, which by your definition would give it depth) got a 7 on IGN, a 6.4 average press score according to IGN, yet the readers gave it a 7.9. Now why is that? Is it because the game wasn't suited to the reviewers, and thus they did not give it a fair chance?

How about Endless Ocean, which was given a fake review by that mag (can't remember which one), that basically made fun of the game? Was that game given a fair review? IGN did give Endless Ocean an 8, but the average press score was 7.1, and the average reader score was 8.6. Why is it that the review scores always seem lower than what the game is given by critics?

I feel that they just don't know how to review these games fairly. And like I said, I never said these games should get 10s, or even 9s. It's just that a lot of these games get really bad scores because they don't fit into the "mold" of a what a game should be.

 


Endless Ocean is a perfect example. Its highest score is 88 while its lowest score is 25. So is it very well put together, or a steaming pile of buggy crap? That's the message the scores should convey. Instead you have to look at it as one guy liked the game a lot and one guy hated it, which is an opinion, not a critique.

Or you can read the reviews and see if you'll like the game or not. Part of what I've been saying this whole time is that if people actually read the reviews they'll pinpoint just who exactly the game is for, but most people seem to be fine with looking at the score then bitching that it's too high or too low.

 



Edouble24 said:

You can't really button mash in Soul Calibur and do well. You can win against people that also don't know how to play. Same goes for any fighting game. What separates the good fighting games from the bad ones is that once you're playing an experienced player your button mashing tactics are rendered useless. I don't feel Wii Sports has that level of depth to it, as I can just swing my arm randomly each time and get a great score, beating out people that bowl as they do in leagues and what not.

I also don't agree that every game has room for improvement, or not much anyway. Those are the games that I feel deserve 10s, games like Smash Brothers, Resident Evil 4, Super Mario Brothers 3, Super Mario Galaxy etc. These are games that are not far from perfection, I don't think Wii Sports is on that level of quality in whatever genre you'd like to place it in, which was all I was really saying.

Gnizmo, with your comments about the other games I now see no point in arguing with you. We're basically debating over Wii Sports deserving a 7.5 or an 8.5 and to me the difference isn't all that big.  

haha Bod you hit your head on a wall everytime someone doesn't agree with what you're saying? That would explain why you don't make any sense.


 I never said you can win a lot of matches, but you can win a round here or there. Not against the best of the best of course, but people who are very good can get taken down by a button mashing Maxi. On the other hand I have yet to meet anyone who can beat me in Wii Sports. I take down everyone because I can play the game a lot better than them. Inarguably SC has more depth, but also less ways to recover from a bad situation. When you say the game has no depth and anyone just starting can be an expert it tells me you really haven't played the game much. Someone randomly swinging the tennis racket won't score a single point on me in tennis. I will simply have to hit the ball twice and it will land in a spot they simply can't get to because they played the game badly.

 If Resident Evil 4 was perfect, how can Resident Evil 4 Wii edition have better controls? What is the point in making Resident Evil 5 if the game has piqued and can no longer be improved upon? Nothing is perfect. Every game can be made better.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Apparently the PS3's library is better than 360's!

it will only get worse for 360 with Halo 3 already out. Oh wait, that affects me too, crap.



Gnizmo said:
Edouble24 said:

You can't really button mash in Soul Calibur and do well. You can win against people that also don't know how to play. Same goes for any fighting game. What separates the good fighting games from the bad ones is that once you're playing an experienced player your button mashing tactics are rendered useless. I don't feel Wii Sports has that level of depth to it, as I can just swing my arm randomly each time and get a great score, beating out people that bowl as they do in leagues and what not.

I also don't agree that every game has room for improvement, or not much anyway. Those are the games that I feel deserve 10s, games like Smash Brothers, Resident Evil 4, Super Mario Brothers 3, Super Mario Galaxy etc. These are games that are not far from perfection, I don't think Wii Sports is on that level of quality in whatever genre you'd like to place it in, which was all I was really saying.

Gnizmo, with your comments about the other games I now see no point in arguing with you. We're basically debating over Wii Sports deserving a 7.5 or an 8.5 and to me the difference isn't all that big.  

haha Bod you hit your head on a wall everytime someone doesn't agree with what you're saying? That would explain why you don't make any sense.


 I never said you can win a lot of matches, but you can win a round here or there. Not against the best of the best of course, but people who are very good can get taken down by a button mashing Maxi. On the other hand I have yet to meet anyone who can beat me in Wii Sports. I take down everyone because I can play the game a lot better than them. Inarguably SC has more depth, but also less ways to recover from a bad situation. When you say the game has no depth and anyone just starting can be an expert it tells me you really haven't played the game much. Someone randomly swinging the tennis racket won't score a single point on me in tennis. I will simply have to hit the ball twice and it will land in a spot they simply can't get to because they played the game badly.

 If Resident Evil 4 was perfect, how can Resident Evil 4 Wii edition have better controls? What is the point in making Resident Evil 5 if the game has piqued and can no longer be improved upon? Nothing is perfect. Every game can be made better.

I've said over and over that the game has some depth so I'm not even gonna respond to that anymore.

As for Resident Evil 4, I'm judging the game based on the hardware it's on. You don't judge RE4 as if it's an Xbox 360 game, there was virtually nothing that could be improved in the Gamecube version aside from some minor details. Sure you can always add content but the gameplay itself was pretty much flawless. Same goes for the Wii version of the game.

Why make RE5? Because no matter how amazing a game is people wont play one game for the rest of their life. Mario 3 is better than Mario World but damn I still love both. Mario 3 is my favorite 2D platformer, which is pretty much perfect to me, doesn't mean I'll not play any 2D platformer I find inferrior. Resident Evil 5 is also on a much more powerful console which means new things can be implimented that weren't possible in RE4(so you don't dock points from the game for it). Also you base the game around the new things that can be added to give it a different feeling. That wont take away from the perfection of RE4, it will just add to RE5. 

Now you're right, no game is 100 percent perfect but some games come VERY close and those are the games I'd score highly. I just don't think Wii Sports really comes close and I can see the Wii doing much better

P.S. Resident Evil 5 wont be as good as 4

 



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Edouble24 said:
Phendrana said:
Stever89 said:
Edouble24 said:
 

This is why I made the movie comparison, just because a lot of people like something doesn't mean it should score well. Lots of games sell well that are heavily flawed. Why is Mario and Sonic selling? Maybe because Mario and Sonic are on the cover. If someone is writing an opinionated review and gives Mario and Sonic a 10, fine, but the game has some bluntly obvious flaws that most reviewers simply can't ignore.

You can get good sales from advertising a poor product, just because people bought into the hype doesn't make it good.

And Smash Brothers was always intended to be a party game, why wouldn't it be?


I've never considered SSB:M a party game... but I don't know. I guess my definition of a party game is slightly different than yours.

And I think what Bod was trying to point out is that every movie reviewer, will normally review movies similarly. Good movies get good reviews. Bad movies will get bad reviews. If two average reviews review a movie, they will respond with similar reviews. So even movies that lack a real story, such as Date Movie or Scary Movie, will get reviews based on what the movie is suppose to do, and not what they (the reviewer) wants it to do. Not saying that bad movies will do bad, though that is usually the case. I can't think of one "ok" movie that did "really great." If you know of a movie that has a really bad average (or even just a bad average), yet did really well in the boxoffice and in DVD sales, let me know. Critics who like action movies will fairly rate a comedy movie.

Game critics on the other hand mostly review based on their likes and dislikes. And there are a large number of games that sell a lot better than their averages would indicate, and I don't even think that applies to party games. MySims (which I wouldn't consider a party game, since it lacks multiplayer as far as I know, and has a story line and unlockables, which by your definition would give it depth) got a 7 on IGN, a 6.4 average press score according to IGN, yet the readers gave it a 7.9. Now why is that? Is it because the game wasn't suited to the reviewers, and thus they did not give it a fair chance?

How about Endless Ocean, which was given a fake review by that mag (can't remember which one), that basically made fun of the game? Was that game given a fair review? IGN did give Endless Ocean an 8, but the average press score was 7.1, and the average reader score was 8.6. Why is it that the review scores always seem lower than what the game is given by critics?

I feel that they just don't know how to review these games fairly. And like I said, I never said these games should get 10s, or even 9s. It's just that a lot of these games get really bad scores because they don't fit into the "mold" of a what a game should be.

 


Endless Ocean is a perfect example. Its highest score is 88 while its lowest score is 25. So is it very well put together, or a steaming pile of buggy crap? That's the message the scores should convey. Instead you have to look at it as one guy liked the game a lot and one guy hated it, which is an opinion, not a critique.

Or you can read the reviews and see if you'll like the game or not. Part of what I've been saying this whole time is that if people actually read the reviews they'll pinpoint just who exactly the game is for, but most people seem to be fine with looking at the score then bitching that it's too high or too low.

 


Why should a well made game receive a poor review score (a score that's supposed to be based on the quality of the game) just because some guy didn't like it? Personal opinion accounts for entirely too much in game reviews. This is fine to an extent, but it makes averaging review scores meaningless. That average score on gamerankings means nothing unless the reviews that form it are based off of universal standards. The problem is simple really; game reviews can never be taken seriously as long as they remain subjective.



Phendrana said:
Edouble24 said:
Phendrana said:
Stever89 said:
Edouble24 said:
 

This is why I made the movie comparison, just because a lot of people like something doesn't mean it should score well. Lots of games sell well that are heavily flawed. Why is Mario and Sonic selling? Maybe because Mario and Sonic are on the cover. If someone is writing an opinionated review and gives Mario and Sonic a 10, fine, but the game has some bluntly obvious flaws that most reviewers simply can't ignore.

You can get good sales from advertising a poor product, just because people bought into the hype doesn't make it good.

And Smash Brothers was always intended to be a party game, why wouldn't it be?


I've never considered SSB:M a party game... but I don't know. I guess my definition of a party game is slightly different than yours.

And I think what Bod was trying to point out is that every movie reviewer, will normally review movies similarly. Good movies get good reviews. Bad movies will get bad reviews. If two average reviews review a movie, they will respond with similar reviews. So even movies that lack a real story, such as Date Movie or Scary Movie, will get reviews based on what the movie is suppose to do, and not what they (the reviewer) wants it to do. Not saying that bad movies will do bad, though that is usually the case. I can't think of one "ok" movie that did "really great." If you know of a movie that has a really bad average (or even just a bad average), yet did really well in the boxoffice and in DVD sales, let me know. Critics who like action movies will fairly rate a comedy movie.

Game critics on the other hand mostly review based on their likes and dislikes. And there are a large number of games that sell a lot better than their averages would indicate, and I don't even think that applies to party games. MySims (which I wouldn't consider a party game, since it lacks multiplayer as far as I know, and has a story line and unlockables, which by your definition would give it depth) got a 7 on IGN, a 6.4 average press score according to IGN, yet the readers gave it a 7.9. Now why is that? Is it because the game wasn't suited to the reviewers, and thus they did not give it a fair chance?

How about Endless Ocean, which was given a fake review by that mag (can't remember which one), that basically made fun of the game? Was that game given a fair review? IGN did give Endless Ocean an 8, but the average press score was 7.1, and the average reader score was 8.6. Why is it that the review scores always seem lower than what the game is given by critics?

I feel that they just don't know how to review these games fairly. And like I said, I never said these games should get 10s, or even 9s. It's just that a lot of these games get really bad scores because they don't fit into the "mold" of a what a game should be.

 


Endless Ocean is a perfect example. Its highest score is 88 while its lowest score is 25. So is it very well put together, or a steaming pile of buggy crap? That's the message the scores should convey. Instead you have to look at it as one guy liked the game a lot and one guy hated it, which is an opinion, not a critique.

Or you can read the reviews and see if you'll like the game or not. Part of what I've been saying this whole time is that if people actually read the reviews they'll pinpoint just who exactly the game is for, but most people seem to be fine with looking at the score then bitching that it's too high or too low.

 


Why should a well made game receive a poor review score (a score that's supposed to be based on the quality of the game) just because some guy didn't like it? Personal opinion accounts for entirely too much in game reviews. This is fine to an extent, but it makes averaging review scores meaningless. That average score on gamerankings means nothing unless the reviews that form it are based off of universal standards. The problem is simple really; game reviews can never be taken seriously as long as they remain subjective.

It shouldn't, and I honestly don't think that happens very much.

 



or everybody get this
maybe its simply the wii doesn't have that many great games yet
just give it time and its average should break 70% and and top 10% of games break 85%

the idea of game rankings is to take a bunch of reviewers so they dont get biased opinion's. It has nothing to do with the controls(which critics usually like) or the fact its graphics aren't as good.



or everybody get this
maybe its simply the wii doesn't have that many great games yet


That's exactly what it is...



Edouble24 said:
Phendrana said:
Edouble24 said:
Phendrana said:
Stever89 said:
Edouble24 said:
 

This is why I made the movie comparison, just because a lot of people like something doesn't mean it should score well. Lots of games sell well that are heavily flawed. Why is Mario and Sonic selling? Maybe because Mario and Sonic are on the cover. If someone is writing an opinionated review and gives Mario and Sonic a 10, fine, but the game has some bluntly obvious flaws that most reviewers simply can't ignore.

You can get good sales from advertising a poor product, just because people bought into the hype doesn't make it good.

And Smash Brothers was always intended to be a party game, why wouldn't it be?


I've never considered SSB:M a party game... but I don't know. I guess my definition of a party game is slightly different than yours.

And I think what Bod was trying to point out is that every movie reviewer, will normally review movies similarly. Good movies get good reviews. Bad movies will get bad reviews. If two average reviews review a movie, they will respond with similar reviews. So even movies that lack a real story, such as Date Movie or Scary Movie, will get reviews based on what the movie is suppose to do, and not what they (the reviewer) wants it to do. Not saying that bad movies will do bad, though that is usually the case. I can't think of one "ok" movie that did "really great." If you know of a movie that has a really bad average (or even just a bad average), yet did really well in the boxoffice and in DVD sales, let me know. Critics who like action movies will fairly rate a comedy movie.

Game critics on the other hand mostly review based on their likes and dislikes. And there are a large number of games that sell a lot better than their averages would indicate, and I don't even think that applies to party games. MySims (which I wouldn't consider a party game, since it lacks multiplayer as far as I know, and has a story line and unlockables, which by your definition would give it depth) got a 7 on IGN, a 6.4 average press score according to IGN, yet the readers gave it a 7.9. Now why is that? Is it because the game wasn't suited to the reviewers, and thus they did not give it a fair chance?

How about Endless Ocean, which was given a fake review by that mag (can't remember which one), that basically made fun of the game? Was that game given a fair review? IGN did give Endless Ocean an 8, but the average press score was 7.1, and the average reader score was 8.6. Why is it that the review scores always seem lower than what the game is given by critics?

I feel that they just don't know how to review these games fairly. And like I said, I never said these games should get 10s, or even 9s. It's just that a lot of these games get really bad scores because they don't fit into the "mold" of a what a game should be.

 


Endless Ocean is a perfect example. Its highest score is 88 while its lowest score is 25. So is it very well put together, or a steaming pile of buggy crap? That's the message the scores should convey. Instead you have to look at it as one guy liked the game a lot and one guy hated it, which is an opinion, not a critique.

Or you can read the reviews and see if you'll like the game or not. Part of what I've been saying this whole time is that if people actually read the reviews they'll pinpoint just who exactly the game is for, but most people seem to be fine with looking at the score then bitching that it's too high or too low.

 


Why should a well made game receive a poor review score (a score that's supposed to be based on the quality of the game) just because some guy didn't like it? Personal opinion accounts for entirely too much in game reviews. This is fine to an extent, but it makes averaging review scores meaningless. That average score on gamerankings means nothing unless the reviews that form it are based off of universal standards. The problem is simple really; game reviews can never be taken seriously as long as they remain subjective.

It shouldn't, and I honestly don't think that happens very much.

 


Actually it does happen to much, and not just with games but films too.  The simple fact is that a lot of people, some to be blunt whose only qualification is they play games or watch movies, are reviewing games and films and the quality of reviewing has suffered accordingly - although sometimes with amusing results.

Personally I wouldn't even bother reviewing something like Wii sports - to me it would be like trying to review playing ball in the park with your kids or playing a game in the garden.  But obviously as these titles are for sale and presumerably some Wii owners are going to seek review guidance some form of review is required.

 

 



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...