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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Analyst: Xbox "generates" $2 billion in losses for MS. Hides it with patent royalties

darkknightkryta on 07 November 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
darkknightkryta said:
I believe it. NFL cost them 400 million right out of the gate. God knows how much money MS poured into Ryse, Titanfall, Dead Rising and their other titles. 300 million went into their new controller. R&D for the actual Xbox One, production, etc. I'm surprised that number isn't any higher (Unless they're hiding part of the bill somewhere else).

I thought the new controller was closer to $100 million. $300 million... that's just silly.

The Xbox 360 appears to be very profitable. Maybe that's where they're hiding some of those X1 bills.

100 million it is.  Still a ridiculas amount of money to invest...



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tiffac on 07 November 2013

MS losing money?



Seece on 07 November 2013
ethomaz said:
He is talking about the last quarter? If so I believe it is true... the massive amount of money to release a new console is crazy guys and MS faced a lot of issues with Xbone development this year.

PS4 hurt the Game division this quarter too.

Then why did the Sony Gaming division only lose a paltry amount?

Give over. This is total BS. Not even 360 and Xbox lost this amount in R&D, nowhere near. Neither of them had 360 hardware, software and LIVE backing up profits either.



 

Landguy on 07 November 2013
DirtyP2002 said:

Btw. This was my favorite Business Insider article:

http://www.businessinsider.com/samsung-releases-ces-teaser-video-for-new-tv-2012-12?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29

Samsung teases a new smart TV and Business Insider calls it a "wannabe Apple TV"... even when there is not Apple TV available or even announced. This is quality journalism right there.


What's even funnier is that Samsung is already an elite TV manufacturer.  So I think that any Apple TV would be a wannabe Samsung!



It is near the end of the end....

ethomaz on 07 November 2013

Seece said:

Then why did the Sony Gaming division only lose a paltry amount?

Give over. This is total BS. Not even 360 and Xbox lost this amount in R&D, nowhere near. Neither of them had 360 hardware, software and LIVE backing up profits either.

Sony is posting R&D for PS4 since last quarter 2012... I don't know if MS did the same... some companies post everything in one quarter.

And yeah... R&B + Marketing for new consoles is over $2 billion for sure.



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Dr.EisDrachenJaeger on 07 November 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
darkknightkryta said:
I believe it. NFL cost them 400 million right out of the gate. God knows how much money MS poured into Ryse, Titanfall, Dead Rising and their other titles. 300 million went into their new controller. R&D for the actual Xbox One, production, etc. I'm surprised that number isn't any higher (Unless they're hiding part of the bill somewhere else).

I thought the new controller was closer to $100 million. $300 million... that's just silly.

The Xbox 360 appears to be very profitable. Maybe that's where they're hiding some of those X1 bills.

Nah they sunk too much in the beginning of the generation, especially coming off the original Xbox



drkohler on 07 November 2013
Seece said:

Then why did the Sony Gaming division only lose a paltry amount?

Give over. This is total BS. Not even 360 and Xbox lost this amount in R&D, nowhere near. Neither of them had 360 hardware, software and LIVE backing up profits either.

Last quarter, Sony lost $8M, MS lost $15M within their gaming units. We can argue all day what makes money or not within each group. One thing is VERY clear, however: XBox R&D, prototyping, softwre development was/is MUCH, MUCH higher than the corresponding PS4 parts.



Seece on 07 November 2013
ethomaz said:

Seece said:

Then why did the Sony Gaming division only lose a paltry amount?

Give over. This is total BS. Not even 360 and Xbox lost this amount in R&D, nowhere near. Neither of them had 360 hardware, software and LIVE backing up profits either.

Sony is posting R&D for PS4 since last quarter 2012... I don't know if MS did the same... some companies post everything in one quarter.

And yeah... R&B + Marketing for new consoles is over $2 billion for sure.

Unless you have figures (and over what span are we even talking) I woudn't assume anything.

Fact is in NO year od the EDD/Xbox Division has it lost $2 billion. That's with Xbox making serious losses in the run up to 360 launching and losing $1b on RROD and losses on the console itself.

The EDD was making profit before Android was even around and it's been steady since 08. If Android is netting MS as much as has been quoted, it's not in this division, because NO bump has been seen anywhere. Why would the Android Patentless EDD go from $400/$300/$600m and then stay at that level after Android became big? At that point without android you would be expecting $1.5b in losses ... how would you explain that? Xbox profitable in 07/08/09 to 1.5b losses onwards?

I think by looking at Sony and Nintendo it's evident MS are making profit. The 360 is profitable at the price it's at (after two revisions) the software is profitable, and live is profitable. None of those are 'sinkhole's.

360 ecosystem will be propping up Xbox One development.



 

Seece on 07 November 2013
drkohler said:
Seece said:

Then why did the Sony Gaming division only lose a paltry amount?

Give over. This is total BS. Not even 360 and Xbox lost this amount in R&D, nowhere near. Neither of them had 360 hardware, software and LIVE backing up profits either.

Last quarter, Sony lost $8M, MS lost $15M within their gaming units. We can argue all day what makes money or not within each group. One thing is VERY clear, however: XBox R&D, prototyping, softwre development was/is MUCH, MUCH higher than the corresponding PS4 parts.

MS doesn't have a gaming/EDD anymore, it's all their devices in one. It's not even worth mentioning anymore for discussion on how well xbox is doing in profit/revenue. Which is a real shame.



 

ethomaz on 07 November 2013

Seece said:

Unless you have figures (and over what span are we even talking) I woudn't assume anything.

Fact is in NO year od the EDD/Xbox Division has it lost $2 billion. That's with Xbox making serious losses in the run up to 360 launching and losing $1b on RROD and losses on the console itself.

The EDD was making profit before Android was even around and it's been steady since 08. If Android is netting MS as much as has been quoted, it's not in this division, because NO bump has been seen anywhere. Why would the Android Patentless EDD go from $400/$300/$600m and then stay at that level after Android became big? At that point without android you would be expecting $1.5b in losses ... how would you explain that? Xbox profitable in 07/08/09 to 1.5b losses onwards?

I think by looking at Sony and Nintendo it's evident MS are making profit. The 360 is profitable at the price it's at (after two revisions) the software is profitable, and live is profitable. None of those are 'sinkhole's.

360 ecosystem will be propping up Xbox One development.

You are making assumptions like me but news hints to a non-profiable product...