Does Sexy = Sexism | |||
| No | 113 | 80.14% | |
| Yes | 7 | 4.96% | |
| Maybe | 2 | 1.42% | |
| Sometimes | 11 | 7.80% | |
| See Results | 7 | 4.96% | |
| Total: | 140 | ||
| JoeTheBro said: Is the design of this girl from MGS5 sexist?
She seems to have an ideal body and is certainly showing it off, and I'd still say no. |
The design by itself isn't sexist. However if the male characters don't have similar treatment it probably is sexist. It is really about the context.
PSN: Osc89
NNID: Oscar89
Aielyn said:
I don't know about the characters, but YOU are sexist. Apparently Kratos has an "ideal body" because he's strong and muscular (which makes sense - he's the god of war), while the girl's body is "ideal" because? Overly thin, big breasts? What is that ideal for? Sex? Anyway, you claim that the two characters are equally designed. They're not. Kratos is muscular for a reason, and his outfit is designed to de-emphasise any possible sexual element. Furthermore, his outfit is perfectly suited to what he's going to do, when any extraneous clothing could get in the way or give foes something to grab. The girl's body shape is thin with big boobs... why? Which wouldn't be a big deal, if not for the fact that her outfit is clearly designed to emphasise it, with the bikini underwear, skintight leggings, etc. And why is she dressed like this, exactly? Sexism is definitely informing the design. Let me put it another way - you could easily see a martial artist dressed in the way Kratos is dressed. Would you ever see a military woman running around in the clothes that the girl's wearing? And would that bra really afford her the kind of support she'd need given the kind of action she'd be expecting to see? Sexism isn't about the design, it's about the reason for it. Zero Suit Samus's design isn't sexist because her clothes are designed for minimal separation between body and suit, and simultaneously maintains the kind of natural modesty that you'd expect from a confident and independent woman. On the other hand, if Zelda were outfitted in the same way, that would be sexist, because a princess who depends on magical ability when she does fight wouldn't be wearing such clothing. |
I don't see how Kratos could be any less sexist than Quiet by just basing it on their outfits, it's a double standard to say that a female character cannot have a sexualized outfit while a male character can, which Kratos always has had to reflect male traits such as strength, courage and overall being a bad ass. But as JoeTheBro mentioned, outfits are not as important as the actions of a character justify it, and while Kratos is a walking stereotype to call him sexist is a big stretch. The same thing applies to Quiet, or maybe perhaps her outfit will only amplify the sexism, I don't know but it's better to wait and see than to judge a book by it's cover.
To work on your example of Zero Suit Samus. Metroid Other M proved that sexism is far more than design. In comparison to previous games in the series the Samus in Other M really brought out some of the worst sexist female stereotypes seen in gaming. Samus's character was constantly portrayed as weak, helpless and sub-dominate to her male coworkers which felt like a betrayal of her original character and the drama behind the game clouded on weather it was a good game or not.
Osc89 said:
|
@BOLD
That's really my point, since the thread is asking if sexy and sexism are not the same thing. Won't comment on the character being sexist, but the design in a vacuum is perfectly fine.
So apparently if a man is running around half-naked in an entire game, it's not sexist. If a woman does, it's sexist. Got it. I like how with many people there always seems to be a legitimate reason for a man to nearly be in the nude but when it's a woman there is no reason at all for her to be that way. She must be dressed in a particular way because no real woman would ever wish to dress in such a manner, right? Is it not sexist to enforce limitations on how a woman should dress or be dressed? I thought feminism was about women being able to choose and do as they wish just as the men have always been able to and not about confining them to strict standards. In my experience, the ones most vocal about the appearance of a woman are the ones who don't look that way themselves. Come on. We can be objective about what an ideal man looks like but try to act anything but subjective on a woman's body and suddenly you're a pig? Get over it.
Plenty of women in videogames have not been portrayed as pin-up models gone bad. I will admit that games in which every woman seems to think that wearing scantily clad attire is the way to go is ridiculous but there are a ton of men in games walking around with no shirt or even less. Don't tell me some girls don't get hard nipples thinking about those "ideal" male bodies getting all sweaty. Toss in a couple girls showing immense cleavage and panty shots and all of a sudden we have an unacceptable situation on our hands. Sounds more to me like someone else's sexist tendencies being pushed on everyone else.
JoeTheBro said:
@BOLD |
I can kind of understand the reaction to her outfit though, as if we assume the other charaters are in keeping with the other games she would be very out of place. There is a good chance it will be sexist. However with your Kratos example, the other characters seem to have a similar level of objectification, so I don't think it is sexist (though I haven't played them so I can't be sure).
PSN: Osc89
NNID: Oscar89
Osc89 said:
|
I don't know. I think if the other character's matched her style the game would be getting even more controversy.
| JoeTheBro said: I don't know. I think if the other character's matched her style the game would be getting even more controversy.
|
Clipped for our eyes.. Where the hell did you find that thing? dont tell me you made that just now
I am Torgo, I take care of the place while the master is away.
"Hes the clown that makes the dark side fun.. Torgo!"
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DD_Bwest said:
|
I googled mgs sexy...
JoeTheBro said:
I don't know. I think if the other character's matched her style the game would be getting even more controversy.
|
Lol, well I guess progress isn't always pretty.
PSN: Osc89
NNID: Oscar89
Aielyn said:
I don't know about the characters, but YOU are sexist. Apparently Kratos has an "ideal body" because he's strong and muscular (which makes sense - he's the god of war), while the girl's body is "ideal" because? Overly thin, big breasts? What is that ideal for? Sex? Anyway, you claim that the two characters are equally designed. They're not. Kratos is muscular for a reason, and his outfit is designed to de-emphasise any possible sexual element. Furthermore, his outfit is perfectly suited to what he's going to do, when any extraneous clothing could get in the way or give foes something to grab. The girl's body shape is thin with big boobs... why? Which wouldn't be a big deal, if not for the fact that her outfit is clearly designed to emphasise it, with the bikini underwear, skintight leggings, etc. And why is she dressed like this, exactly? Sexism is definitely informing the design. Let me put it another way - you could easily see a martial artist dressed in the way Kratos is dressed. Would you ever see a military woman running around in the clothes that the girl's wearing? And would that bra really afford her the kind of support she'd need given the kind of action she'd be expecting to see? Sexism isn't about the design, it's about the reason for it. Zero Suit Samus's design isn't sexist because her clothes are designed for minimal separation between body and suit, and simultaneously maintains the kind of natural modesty that you'd expect from a confident and independent woman. On the other hand, if Zelda were outfitted in the same way, that would be sexist, because a princess who depends on magical ability when she does fight wouldn't be wearing such clothing. |
I understand the points you have made between why Kratos was designed the way he was and the MGS5 character. But I see that as an appeal to certain demographics rather than a sexist depiction of what women and men should be.
I agree that the character is sexusalized but I don't see that as sexism but rather appealing to the male demographic.
Games target certain demographics in a number of ways and sex is just one of the ways they appeal to the male demographic.
Is too much sexual appeal to the detriment of some games? In my opinion, absolutely it is, but not always.
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