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Forums - Microsoft - TRUE XB1 vs PS4 spec comparison

fatslob-:O on 11 October 2013
dahuman said:
fatslob-:O said:
dahuman said:
fallen said:
Oops realized I made a mistake in the OP and forgot to include the triangle setup rates in the PS4 part of the table.

Both PS4 and XB1 GPU have two triangle setup engines. However PS4's GPU operates at 800 mhz while X1's operates at 853 mhz. This means X1 can setup 7% more geometry over PS4.

Updated OP to include.


WUT?!!??!!? WUT!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!? Just what the fuck do you think shaders and tessellation are for? Do you even understand the way RAM is used for triangle setups? Like, WUT!?#!?$$?!%?#?$%?%!?$%?!

He's likely right about the xbone being able to push more geometry since AMD doesn't impliment a parallel solution to primitive generation compared to the nvidia polymorph engine and instead has dedicated units for doing that stuff but all of that is useless since every other part of the xbone except for the cpu is significantly weaker. 

Only that doesn't even matter as much as today's engines are focused on different techniques vs the tiny % of difference. Instead of calling out triangles one by one for everything, people will just mesh it out and use tessellation or shader techniques instead. RAM management is the most important thing in this equation, not fucking piling triangles together at such a small % difference while wasting resources since the consoles don't have massive RAM for games in reality due to their ridiculous OS restrictions.

The xbone is better at tesselation even if only by 7%. :)

I don't know why your lashing at fallen's statement about the triangle setups since he's right about about it being able to push more geometry and on the other hand I know what your saying about engines not being just focused on tessellation and I agree on that part and I don't think memory is going to be much of an issue next generation since 8GB is considerly big but what I think will be a limiting factor in this generation is raw power. 



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superchunk on 11 October 2013

See me sig. Though I guess some of that may be missing from my thread.



Zappykins on 11 October 2013
dahuman said:
Zappykins said:

Ah, yes, ok, I see how you did that.  Yes, the extra audio chip isn't that powerful in the PS4.

I'm a little bewildered as to why they would use the GPU like that.  I'm trying to keep an open mind about it.  But it seems a bit like using miata to move pianos.  Miatas are great little fun sporty cars.  Good mileage, reliability,  but would be mismatched for moving pianos.

Any idea what some of the 'mystery' chips in the Xbox One are for?

Please, oh please, ignore him before you get dragged into fantasy land, audio processing does NOT take that much resource from the GPU due to the nature of parallel processing. You'd have to be on crack to think that CPU and GPU are equal on the same tasks to start with since they are good at different things.

This Fantasy Land?  Do you realize I am going off of Sony's information?  So Sony and Mark Cerney are now Fantasy Land?

It has an extra chip for audio, but also they are promoting 4 CU's for audio.  The way the PS4 is designed is to use 14 CU's for graphics, but it has 4 more.  So they have some flexibilty to use it for other things. 



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
Zappykins on 11 October 2013
Frequency said:
Zappykins said:
fallen said:
Zappykins said:
Interesting, would you mind pointing to your sources? It will help answer some questions.

And I see it's already brought out some misinformation.

Curious, why are you pulling out one core on the PS4 for audio? It can also do some with 4 CU's of it's GPU (I know) and does have a little audio chip.


Well, I did it both ways, hence -9% raw.

PS4 audio chip just does compress/decompress.

Doing audio on CU's is apparently pretty darn difficult (difficult to synchronize due to high GPU latency).

Regardless, if they are forced to use up some of their 4 "extra" CU 's on audio, I think that's a win for X1. You would have to adjust those GFLOP numbers for PS4 down.

From what I've heard SHAPE is equal to about 1 core of audio processing after Kinect reserves. This is a VERY ballpark figure. SHAPE could be even more of a beast, but much of it (beyond the 1 core) is reserved for Kinect audio processing (which IMO sucks, I hate when X1 is weaker for Kinect's sake).

Ah, yes, ok, I see how you did that.  Yes, the extra audio chip isn't that powerful in the PS4.

I'm a little bewildered as to why they would use the GPU like that.  I'm trying to keep an open mind about it.  But it seems a bit like using miata to move pianos.  Miatas are great little fun sporty cars.  Good mileage, reliability,  but would be mismatched for moving pianos.

Any idea what some of the 'mystery' chips in the Xbox One are for?

the problem with this line of thinking is audio on CU isnt difficult at all, and is fully supported in the SDK, and doesnt even require exclusive use of the CU.

May I get some clarity?  I'm not sure what you are trying to say. 



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
drkohler on 11 October 2013
Zappykins said:

It has an extra chip for audio, but also they are promoting 4 CU's for audio.  The way the PS4 is designed is to use 14 CU's for graphics,

Will you stop promoting this nonsense? It has been debunked at least 100 times now.

Nobody is going to use the gpu for sound in PS4 games. It takes roughly 5% of a core to produce noise, 10-15% to produce good sound and 30-40% of a core to trounce anything Forza5 is currently outputting as sound. So stop this bullshit 14 CU nonsense.



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Zappykins on 11 October 2013
drkohler said:
Zappykins said:

It has an extra chip for audio, but also they are promoting 4 CU's for audio.  The way the PS4 is designed is to use 14 CU's for graphics,

Will you stop promoting this nonsense? It has been debunked at least 100 times now.

Nobody is going to use the gpu for sound in PS4 games. It takes roughly 5% of a core to produce noise, 10-15% to produce good sound and 30-40% of a core to trounce anything Forza5 is currently outputting as sound. So stop this bullshit 14 CU nonsense.

I'm just going by what Sony and Cerny say.  If you have some information to prove them wrong, feel free to send them to me.  I tend to think they know what they are talking about referring to this new system.

I agree it does seem quite odd to use a GPU that way, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.  I thought it was an odd attack when I first heard it - but nope, it's what they are saying.  Denying what they have stated multiple times, just would not be respectful to what they are tying to develop and do with their new system.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
ethomaz on 11 October 2013

Zappykins said:

I'm just going by what Sony and Cerny say.  If you have some information to prove them wrong, feel free to send them to me.  I tend to think they know what they are talking about referring to this new system.

I agree it does seem quite odd to use a GPU that way, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.  I thought it was an odd attack when I first heard it - but nope, it's what they are saying.  Denying what they have stated multiple times, just would not be respectful to what they are tying to develop and do with their new system.

Cerny said Raycasting Audio... everything else can be done in Audio processors + CPU.



fatslob-:O on 11 October 2013

The damage controlling for the xbox one is off the charts in in this thread. LOL People here can't let go of the fact that an object just so happens to have more processing power than another object.



Imaginedvl on 11 October 2013
superchunk said:
See me sig. Though I guess some of that may be missing from my thread.

Well, your thread is still stating "Xbox One CPU == PS4 CPU > WiiU CPU". I thought that the Xbox One was a bit faster?
I'm not really sure which thread is really accurate this days :)



TheJimbo1234 on 11 October 2013
fallen said:

I see a lot of so called spec comparison on places like Neogaf that are incomplete, or extremely biased towards PS4 to the point of being nonsense, so I wanted make a true, unbiased reference. The PS4 will go second and be compared to the X1 baseline in terms of percentages.

X1:

Disc: 6X Blu Ray

Disc capacity: 50 GB

HDD: 500 GB 5400 RPM

RAM quantity: 8GB

CPU: 8 core (6 game usable) 1.75 ghz Jaguar (Plus SHAPE audio chip likely ~1 CPU core of audio processing, +cloud support which we will ignore for now but could offload things like AI from X1 CPU in the future)

GPU FLOPS 1.31 teraflops

Texture units 48 at 853 mhz

Triangle setup engines: 2 at 853 mhz

ROPS 16 at 853 mhz

Peak bandwidth: 204+68=272 GB/s

Peak BW per GFLOP= 272,000 MB/S/1310=207.6 MB/S/GFLOP

 

PS4:

Disc: 6X Blu Ray (+0%)

Disc capacity: 50 GB (+0%)

HDD 500GB 5400 RPM (+0%)

RAM quantity: 8GB (+0%)

CPU 8 core (6 game usable) Jaguar CPU 1.6 ghz (-9% raw, -24% after removing 1 core for audio processing to match SHAPE, ignoring X1's cloud capability for now)

GPU FLOPS: 1.843 (+41%)

Texture units: 72 at 800 mhz (+41%)

Triangle setup engines: 2 at 800 mhz (-7%)

ROPS: 32 at 800 mhz (+88%) (However, the real world impact will be much lower as 16 ROPS typically enough at 1080P and less)

Peak bandwidth: 176 GB/s (-35%)

Peak BW per GFLOP: 176,000 MB/S/1843=95.5 MB/S/GFLOP (-54%)

 

Specs PS4 is superior in: ROPS (+88%), GFLOPS (+41%) Texture Units (+41%)

Specs X1 is superior in: CPU (+9%) Geometry setup (+7%) Peak bandwith + (55%) Peak BW per GFLOP (+117%)

Specs they are equal in: Ram capacity, Optical Disc capacity, Optical disc read speed, Hard drive read speed.

 

 

There you have the complete picture of baseline specs, subject to countless other variables we know nothing about...

 

From a high level, PS4 has a stronger GPU while X1 has a sigjnificant edge in peak bandwidth, and a slight to moderate advantage in CPU, which could grow if developers begin to leverage the cloud in the future. The disc read subystems and RAM quantities are identical.

How the hell did you forget to mention the different clock speeds of the memory?! Biased much.