allenmaher said:
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Sounds like 911's loose change. Lol these things are hilarious. I shall look for it for the laughs
allenmaher said:
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Sounds like 911's loose change. Lol these things are hilarious. I shall look for it for the laughs
dsgrue3 said:
You know more than scholars/historian/academics then. They simply conclude there proponderance of evidence is enough to suggest he existed. Those nutbags telling you that Jesus walked here and there are just propagating total bullshit to your face while you suck it up. I will never understand why a personal experience so simple as this is compelling to some individuals who don't want to provide naturalistic explanations for what occurred and instead decide to abandon their rationality and substitute mysticism. Then again, it's kind of like my writing a book about Xenu, WWIII occurring - destroying all records of people, and then concluding that Xenu is more likely to exist than not. It's a conclusion based upon very limited resources.
The is evidence for a local flood, so perhaps you aren't far off. |
Most rivers flood, the city of Calgary flooded this year, local floods are not a particularily noteworthy pheomina (Edit: unless you happen to be in the way). As and earth scientist i am qualified to say that the evidence presented for a biblical flood does not constitute credible evidence. But lets walk through the math a little to illustrate the point:
A rough estimate of the water on earth 1,382,288,000 km^3 97.302% of which is already in the oceans the vast majority remaining is in glaciers or ground water >98% of it, about 0.035% of the water on earth is in the atmosphere and has a mean residence time of about 2 weeks.
The size of the Earth is 510,072,000 km2 and the highest point on earth is 8,848m above sea level. meaning it would take aproximately (and this is a ballpark figure that does not acount for the undulating land masses because loading a global dem and running a full calc would take a long time) 4,488,072,000 km3 to innundate everything. If you take every drop of water that is not already in the ocean you have 37,288,000 km3. You can't take the water from the oceans or lakes for that matter since you would just have to fill them up again, so you have about 72% of that or 26,847,000 km3 of water including polar glaciers. That is 0.005%of what you would need. Unless you are superheating the earth to hold more water it would take 13,241,940 years to happen through rain even if you could find the other 99.995% of the required water.
So despite the fact that if you accept religeous texts as historical evidence this may be considered historical 'fact' (people wrote about it after all). It quite simply did not happen. It is not remotely in the realm of possibility. So yes, it is far off the mark.
Edit: I made a transpostitional error, groggy, it is now corrected.
allenmaher said:
Most rivers flood, the city of Calgary flooded this year, local floods are not a particularily noteworthy pheomina. As and earth scientist i am qualified to say that the evidence presented for a biblical flood does not constitute credible evidence. But lets walk through the math a little to illustrate the point: A rough estimate of the water on earth 1,382,288,000 km^3 97.302% of which is already in the oceans the vast majority remaining is in glaciers or ground water >98% of it, about 0.035% of the water on earth is in the atmosphere and has a mean residence time of about 2 weeks. The size of the Earth is 510,072,000 km2 and the highest point on earth is 8,848m above sea level. meaning it would take aproximately (and this is a ballpark figure that does not acount for the undulating land masses because loading a global dem and running a full calc would take a long time) 4,488,072,000 km3 to innundate everything. If you take every drop of water that is not already in the ocean you have 37,288,000 km3. You can't take the water from the oceans or lakes for that matter since you would just have to fill them up again, so you have about 27% of that or 10,068,000 km3 of water including polar glaciers. That is 0.000002228 % of what you would need. Unless you are superheating the earth to hold more water it would take 13,241,940 years to happen through rain even if you could find the other 99.9999% of the required water. So despite the fact that if you accept religeous texts as historical evidence this may be considered historical 'fact' (people wrote about it after all). It quite simply did not happen. It is not remotely in the realm of possibility. So yes, it is far off the mark. |
I'm not sure if you were really wanting to respond to me? I certainly don't believe in any global flood.
From what I read, it would have to rain 200 inches per hour for 20 days and nights to reach the dizzying amount of water necessary to cover Everest. 200 inches is more than it rains in a year on the wettest places on the planet. Of course, the water cycle is well-established and known to be an equivalency. When it rains, water isn't added to the planet, it simply recycles the water on the planet.
So where did this water come from? Thin air, like the rest of the biblical absurdities.
Mmmfishtacos said: I'm not a religious man, but I do know the Jesus existed. Has anyone here been to Isreal? I have, I walked most of the path that Jesus would have walked charring the cross. There's a part in the old city where it's said he stumbled and reached his hand out and touched the wall to regain his balance. In that very spot on the wall is a near perfect outline of a hand eroded in the wall. I knew nothing about it till I passed and seen a group of people surrounding the area lead by a guide. As I approached the wall to see what the fuss was about I felt a surge of "power" ( really the only way I can describe it) rush over my body, and I felt "awake" like I've never been before in my life. It was probably the single strangest thing to ever happen to me in my life. Then I listened to the guild explain the story to the group of people she was leading. I still don't go to church, is still don't pray or look to sky's for some being to help me throughout my life. But I know Jesus was real. And I don't think you'll find a single Israeli the will deny his existence. They will only deny that he was the son of god. But he was a real person. |
So how came you made a trip to Israel and walked the Via Dolorosa?
As a believer I would really like to do a pilgrimage to Israel one day.
Zero999 said:
for stuff like this to be "debunked", religion has to prove their stories first, wich never happened. |
Jesus being a real person is a proven historic fact. His deistic status is debateable.
If you read the book of Jó, chapter 40, it describes an animal
I'm going to challege you, what animal is that?
Slimebeast said:
So how came you made a trip to Israel and walked the Via Dolorosa? As a believer I would really like to do a pilgrimage to Israel one day. |
Work. I spent 3 months there last year. We went around isreal on our weekly day off.
Mmmfishtacos said:
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Cool. Lucky you. What kind of work and why they send you to Israel?
dsgrue3 said:
I'm not sure if you were really wanting to respond to me? I certainly don't believe in any global flood. From what I read, it would have to rain 200 inches per hour for 20 days and nights to reach the dizzying amount of water necessary to cover Everest. 200 inches is more than it rains in a year on the wettest places on the planet. Of course, the water cycle is well-established and known to be an equivalency. When it rains, water isn't added to the planet, it simply recycles the water on the planet. So where did this water come from? Thin air, like the rest of the biblical absurdities. |
In any individual location, the most rain ever in 1 day (24 hours) is 1.85m the most ever in 1 hour was 305 mm (12 inches). The most ever in a year in a location was 27m. 200 inches per hour is 16 times worse than the worst rainfall recorded. Rain is not like a faucet, if first has to go up, then requires certain conditions to precipitate, it does have some pretty well defined limits not the least of which is the energy involved for evaporation. I have seen some pretty horendous storms, those that droped half the recorded max, 200 inches is really unthinkable.
I was responding to the topic more than you, i saw a number of quotes in the thread of people believing in the flood, I know it came up earlier as well in a discussion of historical facts. The consolation prize of "well maybe it was just a local flood so maybe your not far off" while well meaning is really a disservice to the individual you are consoling. I know a concilliatory tone is good in a forum thread, but why humour the really crazy magical notions? I think that is why I responded to your post, I knew from your response that you did not believe the notion, but then you offered a little "there there" pat on the head at the end.
In a historical debate there is lots of wiggle room, if (and it is a big if) you accept religeous texts as history, then the flood is historical 'fact' for instance. A case can be made based on 2 lines from Josephus and 1 from Tacitus that come decades after the fact for a historical man named jesus (a common name at the time) who was a jewish messiah (there were many other messiahs at the time) and was crucified (also a common fate for rebels at the time). But when people attempt to translate that into proof of the veracity of supernatural claims... and there are some doozies in the new testiment as well, then why soft pedal?
theprof00 said:
Jesus is not in the Jewish texts. And don't be too sure about what people will believe. The Jews didn't exactly accept the Christians, as shown in the fall of Alexandria. Let's not forget that most Christian/catholic holidays also occur exactly on previous pagan holidays, and also let's not forget Jesus' similarity to previous religious leaders. Buddha: Both went to their temples at the age of twelve, where they are said to have astonished all with their wisdom. Both supposedly fasted in solitude for a long time: Buddha for forty–seven days and Jesus for forty. Both wandered to a fig tree at the conclusion of their fasts. Both were about the same age when they began their public ministry: “When he [Buddha] went again to the garden he saw a monk who was calm, tranquil, self–possessed, serene, and dignified. The prince, determined to become such a monk, was led to make the great renunciation. At the time he was twenty–nine years of age… “Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age.” (Luke 3:23). Both were tempted by the “devil” at the beginning of their ministry: To Buddha, he said: “Go not forth to adopt a religious life but return to your kingdom, and in seven days you shall become emperor of the world, riding over the four continents.” To Jesus, he said: “All these [kingdoms of the world] I will give you, if you fall down and worship me” (Matthew 4:9). Buddha answered the “devil”: “Get you away from me.” Jesus responded: “…begone, Satan!” (Matthew 4:10). Both strove to establish a kingdom of heaven on earth. According to the Somadeva (a Buddhist holy book), a Buddhist ascetic’s eye once offended him, so he plucked it out and cast it away. Jesus said: “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, and throw it away;.” (Matthew 5:29). Krishna: Zarathustra: Attis of Phrygia: Horus:
Interesting how most of these come from areas that the Roman's occupied. |
Why are you so desperatly trying to discredit Christianty when its obvious you know very little of its actual history or its context? It sounds like all you know about christianity comes from r/atheism and youtube.
I mean, i figured out from my lurking days in off topic threads that you are a queer atheist (forgive me/correct me if im wrong) and therefor Christiannty is an epitome of everything that is bad in this world according to you, and that its very existance makes your blood boil, but there are more vaild criticizing points you can use to disprove it, not this desperate nonsense that has been debunked million times by now.
Anyway, to disprove your points about other deities, i have found several links, which you should check out
http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-one/ It explains the whole ''Jesus was a rip off of other deites'' stuff
There are also a lot of videos that deal with this issue (mostly debunking the Zeitgeist movie, which pretty much started this whole nonsense)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7GgWOi4SQM Historical (non biblical) evidence for Jesus, later parts in suggested videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFI6m6Icav4 This one is similar to the first link, but its in video. Again it deals with Zeitgeist, but it applies to your ppoints quite well too.
http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/horus-manure-debunking-the-jesushorus-connection/ This one is specifically about Horus connections
http://jerome23.wordpress.com/2009/03/09/debunking-the-myth-that-jesus-never-existed-the-historical-sources-for-jesus-part-one/
http://explanationblog.wordpress.com/the-myth-of-jesus-a-refutation-of-the-zeitgeist/
TL;DR You are very very wrong
Moderated,
-Mr Khan