I thought Sony said this months ago.

Well, apart from misleading title, cause that's not what he said (though I think they might be pushing it a bit even with "against consumer choice"), I'm one of those that would actually prefer if they included camera with every PS4 - I think that camera has lot of potential, and if both PS4 and XOne had it by default, my opinion is that at least some 3rd parties would start experimenting heavily with it.

I do however understand their decision, it seems to me that lot of their choices came from being overly cautious not to repeat PS3, so ditching it for wider price gap does seem like smart business move.

lol, didn't Sony plan the same thing? also, I don't know what's bad about this, Dev's can get the full potential out of the camera when it's included. Actually it's even more consumer friendly cause you have the same experience as everybody.

Another interesting thread.

So, the cost difference between Bluray and DVD was zero? Some people are just completely uninformed. I see that someone cam up with $107 in a later post. I think that is on the low side. The basic bluray player cost $500+ when the PS3 launched. But, whatever.

The crazy thing is that people are actually trying to say that M$ is screwing their consumers by "forcing" them to take the kinect. The whole system was designed with the Kinect in mind. So if that is not the type of system you want then it won't be your system of choice.

The car analogy that others used works well. I would use something different than tires or CD players. I would compare it to windshield wipers. You can drive(or play the games) the car any time you want, except if it rains . I would call the rain(motion/video capture/voice commands) something that limits all the things a car can do without windshield wipers(Kinect). So, your car can do more with windshield wipers = your gaming system can do more with motion/video capture/voice command. Right now, some gamers can't see the purpose of the windshield wipers, because they don't drive in rain. But if your designing a car to drive in the rain as one of it's main purposes, why would you exclude the windshield wipers???

Forcing people to buy Kinect 2.0 isn't anti-consumer, it's just dumb.

I can't seem to find the part where he said it was anti-consumer anyway though.

Lol, with that logic, we should have just stuck with CD players for all consoles and VHSs for movies.  Games kept getting bigger with each gen.  Sony knew this, as well as the fact that there hadn't really been an advancement in the way we watch movies (including the quality in which we watch them), for nearly 10 years.  This was just the natural progression in which we store games and movies.  It was evident it was needed, even in the 7th gen, as several games on the 360 came in 2 or more DVDs.  It is also better that Blu-ray released last gen, as the advances in the tech, as well as the price reduction that comes from those advances, will be applied to the PS4 and One.

Kinect, on the other hand, seems more like a remnant of a motion control fad from last gen.  One that slowly died as the gen began to die.  This is evident in the fact that Sony and Nintendo are no longer focusing on motion gaming as a big factor to gaming, only incorporating it in small doses.  Heck, even MS hasn't really demonstrated a use for the new Kinect that a normal web cam/mic couldn't achieve with decent SW, especially the voice commands.  They don't even have a launch game, other than 2-3 rehashes from last gen, that pushes the Kinect to the forefront.  Even Ryse, one of their big exclusives, went from a Kinect game to a controller game.

First off, I think that something is against consumer choice when it is against what most consumers want. Obviously you cannot please everyone.

Microsoft must have done a market survey at some point and determined that more people wanted Kinect (or at least that enough people wanted it) to make it worthwhile in the long run.

PSvita forced memory cards = pro consumer then?

Only color ps4 has is black. Sony is so anti-consumer.

-This post is dedicated to the people that think anti consumer and anti choice is interchangeable.

No one said the price difference between the dvd drive and bluray drive was zero. And you think 107 is on the low end? You realise that more goes into a bluray player than just the drive right? And yoou realize that 500 figure would be with profit... right? 107 for bluray drive is probably close.