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Forums - Nintendo - If consoles sales are all about the software, then what's the point Wii U's second screen?

Dr.EisDrachenJaeger on 24 September 2013
NoirSon said:
Th3PANO said:
DamnTastic said:
Th3PANO said:

The problem of the Wii U isn't the concpet of the second screen. It's the missing software.

It has more problems than just the lack of software.

Like no motion control like the wii had. instead of abandoning that concept they should've improved it.

A second console based on an improved WiiRemote wouldn't be beneficial at all. Wii Motion Plus is pretty accurate. Nintendo land showed this. Also, the gamepad still has motion controls, more precise then the regular WiiMote.

Also everybody now has realized that the Wii was a phenomen nobody will match it in the near future. I wanna know how many sales Nintendo would have if they have had always enough shipments in the early years. Also people are actually showing signs of getting tired of motion controls. Sometimes you just wanna relax playing a game on your couch.

Love the avatar but I disagree.

Another console with motion controls equal or just a tad better then on the Wii probably still would have sold more if they had marketed it well. Marketing and lack of software is a major problem for the Wii U but Nintendo also failed to capitalize on making the Wii U appear a different system, they improved the classic controller and have the Wii U game pad for more traditional games but the biggest flaw with Wii U has been Nintendo trying to appeal to everyone without spending too much. The ideas behind the Wii U all point toward them trying to recapture the magic they found with the Wii including doing it with weaker then their competition's next gen device specs and costs, but the lack of multiplayer with multiple gamepads, the limited hard drive space in the basic unit and failure to differentiate the previous console and the new one in its design gave consumers pause and developers/media/fanboys who don't care or like Nintendo all the ammo to bury the system.

A Wii 2 with a redesigned Wii remote with even a few new features like built in memory for game data or profiles, could have and probably would have been better received if only because they are more familiar with what it would include and could probably see the benefit/fun of it. With the Wii U, Nintendo has failed to provide software that makes having the second screen seem necessary (outside of off TV play) and in many aspects seem to avoid even trying to implement it fully as a core game feature.  This along with software is what is killing the system.

The DS/3DS has had more then a few really good to great implementations of the second screen, either the Gamepad is worst then the second screen on the portables or folk really aren't trying to take advantage of the concept or the worst case scenario being that due to the hardware they can't.

A Wii 2 would still have to deal with software delay,Nintendo had to get their dev teams up to 2013 status in HD productivity.



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NoirSon on 24 September 2013
Dr.EisDrachenJaeger said:
NoirSon said:
Th3PANO said:
DamnTastic said:
Th3PANO said:

The problem of the Wii U isn't the concpet of the second screen. It's the missing software.

It has more problems than just the lack of software.

Like no motion control like the wii had. instead of abandoning that concept they should've improved it.

A second console based on an improved WiiRemote wouldn't be beneficial at all. Wii Motion Plus is pretty accurate. Nintendo land showed this. Also, the gamepad still has motion controls, more precise then the regular WiiMote.

Also everybody now has realized that the Wii was a phenomen nobody will match it in the near future. I wanna know how many sales Nintendo would have if they have had always enough shipments in the early years. Also people are actually showing signs of getting tired of motion controls. Sometimes you just wanna relax playing a game on your couch.

Love the avatar but I disagree.

Another console with motion controls equal or just a tad better then on the Wii probably still would have sold more if they had marketed it well. Marketing and lack of software is a major problem for the Wii U but Nintendo also failed to capitalize on making the Wii U appear a different system, they improved the classic controller and have the Wii U game pad for more traditional games but the biggest flaw with Wii U has been Nintendo trying to appeal to everyone without spending too much. The ideas behind the Wii U all point toward them trying to recapture the magic they found with the Wii including doing it with weaker then their competition's next gen device specs and costs, but the lack of multiplayer with multiple gamepads, the limited hard drive space in the basic unit and failure to differentiate the previous console and the new one in its design gave consumers pause and developers/media/fanboys who don't care or like Nintendo all the ammo to bury the system.

A Wii 2 with a redesigned Wii remote with even a few new features like built in memory for game data or profiles, could have and probably would have been better received if only because they are more familiar with what it would include and could probably see the benefit/fun of it. With the Wii U, Nintendo has failed to provide software that makes having the second screen seem necessary (outside of off TV play) and in many aspects seem to avoid even trying to implement it fully as a core game feature.  This along with software is what is killing the system.

The DS/3DS has had more then a few really good to great implementations of the second screen, either the Gamepad is worst then the second screen on the portables or folk really aren't trying to take advantage of the concept or the worst case scenario being that due to the hardware they can't.

A Wii 2 would still have to deal with software delay,Nintendo had to get their dev teams up to 2013 status in HD productivity.

Maybe but it also might have gotten some outside developer that wanted to do a HD motion control game to place it on the Wii 2.



Dr.EisDrachenJaeger on 24 September 2013

Like who?

Really who? All an Wii2HD would have done is let Nintendo plan out their resources in a different manner than what they did with the WiiU



snyps on 24 September 2013
LiquorandGunFun said:
OP you're not supposed to like it bc nintendo made it.


fixed



richardhutnik on 24 September 2013
Arius Dion said:
I'd've rather Nintendo just improve the weaknesses the Wii had rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater. Its not that the people grew tired of Motion Controls, Nintendo got tired of making games (people wanted) with motion controls.

They could have sold the Gamepad like they sold Wii Fit, improve WM+ accuracy/efficiency, wireless nunchuck, and include a Procontroller as to not split userbase. Have an actual account system (not tied to hardware) and have a virtual console like iTunes instead of a trickling out of games.

And lastly, have the right software to move the hardware. Mario U could have been that game, but you can see how lazily that game was made. In any case, Nintendo isnt doing so well financially (by their standards) and their console business is really dragging atm. So obviously changes are needed, no one likes loosing $$

Well, the whole motion control thing got taken over by Microsoft with the ONE, and Kinect 2.0.  But, as was seen with Ryse, it was found that motion control has limited scope where it can be used.  So, Nintendo decided to go in a different direction with the second screen.



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cyberninja45 on 24 September 2013
richardhutnik said:
Arius Dion said:
I'd've rather Nintendo just improve the weaknesses the Wii had rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater. Its not that the people grew tired of Motion Controls, Nintendo got tired of making games (people wanted) with motion controls.

They could have sold the Gamepad like they sold Wii Fit, improve WM+ accuracy/efficiency, wireless nunchuck, and include a Procontroller as to not split userbase. Have an actual account system (not tied to hardware) and have a virtual console like iTunes instead of a trickling out of games.

And lastly, have the right software to move the hardware. Mario U could have been that game, but you can see how lazily that game was made. In any case, Nintendo isnt doing so well financially (by their standards) and their console business is really dragging atm. So obviously changes are needed, no one likes loosing $$

Well, the whole motion control thing got taken over by Microsoft with the ONE, and Kinect 2.0.  But, as was seen with Ryse, it was found that motion control has limited scope where it can be used.  So, Nintendo decided to go in a different direction with the second screen.


You are confusing kinect motion controls with the wiimote both of which can be used very differently, but the wiimote still can do the same as traditional controls and more unlike kinect. The limited use of kinect should be brought up with the wiimote+ they are not the same gameplay wise.



My 3ds friendcode: 5413-0232-9676 (G-cyber)



richardhutnik on 25 September 2013
cyberninja45 said:
richardhutnik said:
Arius Dion said:
I'd've rather Nintendo just improve the weaknesses the Wii had rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater. Its not that the people grew tired of Motion Controls, Nintendo got tired of making games (people wanted) with motion controls.

They could have sold the Gamepad like they sold Wii Fit, improve WM+ accuracy/efficiency, wireless nunchuck, and include a Procontroller as to not split userbase. Have an actual account system (not tied to hardware) and have a virtual console like iTunes instead of a trickling out of games.

And lastly, have the right software to move the hardware. Mario U could have been that game, but you can see how lazily that game was made. In any case, Nintendo isnt doing so well financially (by their standards) and their console business is really dragging atm. So obviously changes are needed, no one likes loosing $$

Well, the whole motion control thing got taken over by Microsoft with the ONE, and Kinect 2.0.  But, as was seen with Ryse, it was found that motion control has limited scope where it can be used.  So, Nintendo decided to go in a different direction with the second screen.


You are confusing kinect motion controls with the wiimote both of which can be used very differently, but the wiimote still can do the same as traditional controls and more unlike kinect. The limited use of kinect should be brought up with the wiimote+ they are not the same gameplay wise.

Both Kinect and the Wiimote address the issue of motion control.  I am not confusing the two, but just showing that motion control showed itself to be of limited scope in a control mechanism. Nintendo has been moving away from it for a reason, while Microsoft has been trying to maximize usage of it with Kinect, but finding the best use is anything BUT games.



cyberninja45 on 25 September 2013
richardhutnik said:
cyberninja45 said:
richardhutnik said:
Arius Dion said:
I'd've rather Nintendo just improve the weaknesses the Wii had rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater. Its not that the people grew tired of Motion Controls, Nintendo got tired of making games (people wanted) with motion controls.

They could have sold the Gamepad like they sold Wii Fit, improve WM+ accuracy/efficiency, wireless nunchuck, and include a Procontroller as to not split userbase. Have an actual account system (not tied to hardware) and have a virtual console like iTunes instead of a trickling out of games.

And lastly, have the right software to move the hardware. Mario U could have been that game, but you can see how lazily that game was made. In any case, Nintendo isnt doing so well financially (by their standards) and their console business is really dragging atm. So obviously changes are needed, no one likes loosing $$

Well, the whole motion control thing got taken over by Microsoft with the ONE, and Kinect 2.0.  But, as was seen with Ryse, it was found that motion control has limited scope where it can be used.  So, Nintendo decided to go in a different direction with the second screen.


You are confusing kinect motion controls with the wiimote both of which can be used very differently, but the wiimote still can do the same as traditional controls and more unlike kinect. The limited use of kinect should be brought up with the wiimote+ they are not the same gameplay wise.

Both Kinect and the Wiimote address the issue of motion control.  I am not confusing the two, but just showing that motion control showed itself to be of limited scope in a control mechanism. Nintendo has been moving away from it for a reason, while Microsoft has been trying to maximize usage of it with Kinect, but finding the best use is anything BUT games.

Again you are confusing the two. Yes both can use motion control, but the way the controls are designed to be used are tow different beast. The wiimote was desgined so it can be still be used in traditional games (the only exception would be the fighting game genre I think it is rather clunky for that), most genre it either improves handling FPS  RTS TPS etc or it doesn't hinder it. The way the kinect is designed it will have trouble just trying to implement control for any free roaming character ie it can most only be used for limited sports game or on rails games.

EDIT- That's why you have people saying the wiimote is greater than the gamepad.  Also when I say wiimote I mean wiimote- nunchuck combo although I think that should be understood.



My 3ds friendcode: 5413-0232-9676 (G-cyber)



richardhutnik on 25 September 2013
cyberninja45 said:
richardhutnik said:
cyberninja45 said:
richardhutnik said:
Arius Dion said:
I'd've rather Nintendo just improve the weaknesses the Wii had rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater. Its not that the people grew tired of Motion Controls, Nintendo got tired of making games (people wanted) with motion controls.

They could have sold the Gamepad like they sold Wii Fit, improve WM+ accuracy/efficiency, wireless nunchuck, and include a Procontroller as to not split userbase. Have an actual account system (not tied to hardware) and have a virtual console like iTunes instead of a trickling out of games.

And lastly, have the right software to move the hardware. Mario U could have been that game, but you can see how lazily that game was made. In any case, Nintendo isnt doing so well financially (by their standards) and their console business is really dragging atm. So obviously changes are needed, no one likes loosing $$

Well, the whole motion control thing got taken over by Microsoft with the ONE, and Kinect 2.0.  But, as was seen with Ryse, it was found that motion control has limited scope where it can be used.  So, Nintendo decided to go in a different direction with the second screen.


You are confusing kinect motion controls with the wiimote both of which can be used very differently, but the wiimote still can do the same as traditional controls and more unlike kinect. The limited use of kinect should be brought up with the wiimote+ they are not the same gameplay wise.

Both Kinect and the Wiimote address the issue of motion control.  I am not confusing the two, but just showing that motion control showed itself to be of limited scope in a control mechanism. Nintendo has been moving away from it for a reason, while Microsoft has been trying to maximize usage of it with Kinect, but finding the best use is anything BUT games.

Again you are confusing the two. Yes both can use motion control, but the way the controls are designed to be used are tow different beast. The wiimote was desgined so it can be still be used in traditional games (the only exception would be the fighting game genre I think it is rather clunky for that), most genre it either improves handling FPS  RTS TPS etc or it doesn't hinder it. The way the kinect is designed it will have trouble just trying to implement control for any free roaming character ie it can most only be used for limited sports game or on rails games.

EDIT- That's why you have people saying the wiimote is greater than the gamepad.  Also when I say wiimote I mean wiimote- nunchuck combo although I think that should be understood.

The Wiimote, without the motion control, is the NES controller reintroduced.  Motion control is a key part of it.  Now, if one wants to have more functionality, then you take something like the Playstation controller and go SixAxis.  

I won't deny here that the Wiimote didn't have a larger impact than the U Pad.  But that doesn't mean one can just try to extend the Wiimote somehow and replicate success of generating growth.  The other way to extend motion control is what Microsoft did.

I guess here, what can be said is no one has managed to successfully come up with a way for the whole body to be a controller AND navigate a 3D environment for immersion.  The Wii U still can still do the Wii stuff, but they moved away from it, because Microsoft and Sont went into that space.  Sony and Nintendo are trying to implement mouse type controls with their controllers though.



Arius Dion on 25 September 2013

The WiiMote revolutionized the industry, because it had revolutionary software. A Sax only sounds as good as the player makes it sound. Kinect I don't think is in the same league as the WiiMote, so I'm not sure the comparison is able to be made beyond 'both use motion'

After Wii Sports, people were excited at the possibilities the Wiimote held for future software. The problem is after WSR, Nintendo devs got bored and decided they wanted a new toy to tinker with.

There is no software for the Wii U that gets gamers excited about the Gamepad. And every game shown, shows other controller options (which is great) but also shows the Gamepad as not entirely a step forward. Many Wii gamers last gen see the Wii U as a step backwards. The only genre I feel the Wii nunchuck combo didn't enhance was fighting games. but TPS', FPS, I wont go back to DA for those.

Which is my argument that the Gamepad is an albatross around Wii U's neck, And should be sold like Wii Fit was. Motion Controls were abandoned prematurely by Nintendo, (the primary reason for Wii's success was Nintendo's excellent FP software last gen) And once Nintendo bounced, the software dried, and why does any one buy a games console if not for the software?



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.