By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft - Why was the original Crimson Dragon canned?

fatslob-:O on 21 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
This just proves that microsoft don't care about supporting their past consoles when they release their new consoles. Microsoft must seriously hate supporting their old consoles and outdated.

Or could it just be that using a better kinect, not forcing the developer to only use kinect but also giving them the freedom to use both controls and letting them expand the game to make it better including evelating the game as a launch game for their brand new console.  Since games are still being made for the 360 from MS own studios, I do not see what the problem is.

This is a smart move on MS since the game uses Kinect, probably smarter to use the best piece of hardware.  Could be the same reason Ryse also was moved to X1 and probably a other games that uses Kinect as well.

Yeah but why don't they atleast try supporting past consoles to make transitioning easier to next generation and plus this will give consumers a bad taste in the mouth like how nintendo practically dropped support for the wii and that soured my relationship deeply with them. 

Just like Sony, you have periods of a bunch of games coming out and then not so much because of development schedules.  In the last 2 years MS has went from a few development studios to about 20.  These studios can only do so much and they can only working on so many titles depending on their size.  This year, Sony brought out a lot of games from their studios but very little for their the PS4.  MS on the other hand did the opposite.

Probably timming is more the situation than anything else as next year, there probably will be little coming out from Sony for the PS3 while MS has a few titles and maybe more lined up for the 360.  MS stated they will be supporting the 360 for 3 more years so lets see what type of support that is.

They both don't have any killer apps such as halo or gt so what makes you think that investing in new consoles will automatically yield a huge boost in sales ?

Not sure what point you are making.  A new console needs support.  It cannot rely on 3rd party studios alone the OEM needs to have their own games which are definitely going to be exclusive and separate the new console from the competition.  You say neither have killer apps, well I disagree.  Both have games coming that consumers believe are killer apps.  Those games might not be killer for you or I but then again, I am not purchasing either on launch.

A killer app is something that seriously moves hardware and the only type of app that sony and microsoft have are halo and gt. Oh I know that it can't just rely on 3rd parties alone however what both first parties are offering isn't killer app plus they won't be putting out titles constantly post launch window. 



Around the Network
Raven722 on 21 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
Raven722 said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
This just proves that microsoft don't care about supporting their past consoles when they release their new consoles. Microsoft must seriously hate supporting their old consoles and outdated.

Or could it just be that using a better kinect, not forcing the developer to only use kinect but also giving them the freedom to use both controls and letting them expand the game to make it better including evelating the game as a launch game for their brand new console.  Since games are still being made for the 360 from MS own studios, I do not see what the problem is.

This is a smart move on MS since the game uses Kinect, probably smarter to use the best piece of hardware.  Could be the same reason Ryse also was moved to X1 and probably a other games that uses Kinect as well.

Yeah but why don't they atleast try supporting past consoles to make transitioning easier to next generation and plus this will give consumers a bad taste in the mouth like how nintendo practically dropped support for the wii and that soured my relationship deeply with them. 

Just like Sony, you have periods of a bunch of games coming out and then not so much because of development schedules.  In the last 2 years MS has went from a few development studios to about 20.  These studios can only do so much and they can only working on so many titles depending on their size.  This year, Sony brought out a lot of games from their studios but very little for their the PS4.  MS on the other hand did the opposite.

Probably timming is more the situation than anything else as next year, there probably will be little coming out from Sony for the PS3 while MS has a few titles and maybe more lined up for the 360.  MS stated they will be supporting the 360 for 3 more years so lets see what type of support that is.

I would like to point out that many of the games MS will be bringing for their new console over the next 12 months are actually NOT first party developed games. Out of the 24 exclusive games, timed or otherwise, only about 8 of them are actually developed by Microsoft Studios. The rest are third party developed games. Some are published by MS, others are not. If you're referring to Xbox One launch titles it's obviously even less. Only 3 or 4 games are developed by Microsoft first party studios. Sony currently has 4 exclusives from their first-party teams with more to yet be announced for Year One. We've only heard about 12 of the 20 exclusive Sony-published games. With 8 of them left, you can be sure a few others will be first party developed. As for launch this year, Sony has about the same number of first-party developed games coming which is 3, making it equal or close to the same number of MS games.

I am of the opinion that if its exclusive it doesn't matter if it first party.I am not sure if it really matters if a game is first party.  Sony have a few studios making games for their platform that are 3rd party but gamers still see those games as part of the exclusives they look for in the platform.

@Bolded:  MS has 20 studios now, and you only heard about 5 coming out for the X1.  Just like Sony, there are plenty of first party games probably in development that MS will stagger their release.  Also MS isn't shy about getting top notch studios to product exclusives games.  When all is said and done, I am not sure if a gamer cares if a game is first, 2nd or Third party.  If its exclusive and its a good game, it increases the wealth of purchasing that system.

Perhaps I'm mistaken but it seemed as though you may have been implying that Microsoft's first-party studios were doing considerably more for the XOne this year than Sony's first-party studios are doing for the PS4. Which is why I pointed out the Microsoft's first-party studios are, in fact, not doing as such. We have heard of 7 games being developed by Microsoft's studios for the XOne. Fable Legends, Forza Motorsport 5, Halo, Kinect Sports Rivals, Project Spark, LocoCycle, and Max: Curse of the Brotherhood. I was off by one. As far as I know, only two of those games will be at launch. In this case I was off 1 or 2 games. Furthermore, Microsoft had said that they will be publishing 15 exclusive titles for Year One. They have announced 16 up to this point but I'm willing to bet one of them won't make it out this year. Probably Sunset Overdrive or Quantum Break. It's possible that Microsoft will announce more for 2014 but I highly doubt it and if they do it will be one or two games and likely small ones. Most of Microsoft's studios are brand new so it will be awhile before we see anything from them.

Microsoft being willing to do whatever with whoever is irrelevant to the point I was taking exception with.



Machiavellian on 21 September 2013
Raven722 said:

I am of the opinion that if its exclusive it doesn't matter if it first party.I am not sure if it really matters if a game is first party.  Sony have a few studios making games for their platform that are 3rd party but gamers still see those games as part of the exclusives they look for in the platform.

@Bolded:  MS has 20 studios now, and you only heard about 5 coming out for the X1.  Just like Sony, there are plenty of first party games probably in development that MS will stagger their release.  Also MS isn't shy about getting top notch studios to product exclusives games.  When all is said and done, I am not sure if a gamer cares if a game is first, 2nd or Third party.  If its exclusive and its a good game, it increases the wealth of purchasing that system.

Perhaps I'm mistaken but it seemed as though you may have been implying that Microsoft's first-party studios were doing considerably more for the XOne this year than Sony's first-party studios are doing for the PS4. Which is why I pointed out the Microsoft's first-party studios are, in fact, not doing as such. We have heard of 7 games being developed by Microsoft's studios for the XOne. Fable Legends, Forza Motorsport 5, Halo, Kinect Sports Rivals, Project Spark, LocoCycle, and Max: Curse of the Brotherhood. I was off by one. As far as I know, only two of those games will be at launch. In this case I was off 1 or 2 games. Furthermore, Microsoft had said that they will be publishing 15 exclusive titles for Year One. They have announced 16 up to this point but I'm willing to bet one of them won't make it out this year. Probably Sunset Overdrive or Quantum Break. It's possible that Microsoft will announce more for 2014 but I highly doubt it and if they do it will be one or two games and likely small ones. Most of Microsoft's studios are brand new so it will be awhile before we see anything from them.

Microsoft being willing to do whatever with whoever is irrelevant to the point I was taking exception with.

No, I was not making comparisions on which company first party is doing the most because I have no clue.  I was only arguing the point that MS is not removing something from the 360 just to piss off 360 fans and not provide support for the console.  My point has nothing to do with Sony and more to do with MS providing support for the X1 with a game that probably benefited best on the X1 then the 360.

As for MS first party studios, most of those Studios were formed 2 years ago so about the right time to bring out a game next year.  Do not forget there is still Black Tusk which we are waiting to see what AAA game they are supose to be making.

In conclusing, I am only making a counter point to fatslob statement that MS only care about their next gen system.



Machiavellian on 21 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
Not sure what point you are making.  A new console needs support.  It cannot rely on 3rd party studios alone the OEM needs to have their own games which are definitely going to be exclusive and separate the new console from the competition.  You say neither have killer apps, well I disagree.  Both have games coming that consumers believe are killer apps.  Those games might not be killer for you or I but then again, I am not purchasing either on launch.

 

A killer app is something that seriously moves hardware and the only type of app that sony and microsoft have are halo and gt. Oh I know that it can't just rely on 3rd parties alone however what both first parties are offering isn't killer app plus they won't be putting out titles constantly post launch window. 

I believe any good launch should always have at least 3 solid if not top AAA exclusives at the beginning or start within the first year to keep sales on a nice strong pace.  I believe Sony and MS has very solid titles that may not be system sellers by themselves but together with other titles coming making for a strong system launch.



MonstaMack on 21 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
This just proves that microsoft don't care about supporting their past consoles when they release their new consoles. Microsoft must seriously hate supporting their old consoles and outdated.


Why should they continue to pour first party support on the 360? The last game will be Fable Anniversary and that's a fitting end to the 360. If you want to sell your new system you need to pour as much support as possible towards your new system. The 360 will be out over eight years, what's the big deal?



It's just that simple.

Around the Network
fatslob-:O on 21 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
Not sure what point you are making.  A new console needs support.  It cannot rely on 3rd party studios alone the OEM needs to have their own games which are definitely going to be exclusive and separate the new console from the competition.  You say neither have killer apps, well I disagree.  Both have games coming that consumers believe are killer apps.  Those games might not be killer for you or I but then again, I am not purchasing either on launch.

 

A killer app is something that seriously moves hardware and the only type of app that sony and microsoft have are halo and gt. Oh I know that it can't just rely on 3rd parties alone however what both first parties are offering isn't killer app plus they won't be putting out titles constantly post launch window. 

I believe any good launch should always have at least 3 solid if not top AAA exclusives at the beginning or start within the first year to keep sales on a nice strong pace.  I believe Sony and MS has very solid titles that may not be system sellers by themselves but together with other titles coming making for a strong system launch.

Yet the PS2 launch line up wasn't stellar and it dominated.



Raven722 on 21 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
Raven722 said:

I am of the opinion that if its exclusive it doesn't matter if it first party.I am not sure if it really matters if a game is first party.  Sony have a few studios making games for their platform that are 3rd party but gamers still see those games as part of the exclusives they look for in the platform.

@Bolded:  MS has 20 studios now, and you only heard about 5 coming out for the X1.  Just like Sony, there are plenty of first party games probably in development that MS will stagger their release.  Also MS isn't shy about getting top notch studios to product exclusives games.  When all is said and done, I am not sure if a gamer cares if a game is first, 2nd or Third party.  If its exclusive and its a good game, it increases the wealth of purchasing that system.

Perhaps I'm mistaken but it seemed as though you may have been implying that Microsoft's first-party studios were doing considerably more for the XOne this year than Sony's first-party studios are doing for the PS4. Which is why I pointed out the Microsoft's first-party studios are, in fact, not doing as such. We have heard of 7 games being developed by Microsoft's studios for the XOne. Fable Legends, Forza Motorsport 5, Halo, Kinect Sports Rivals, Project Spark, LocoCycle, and Max: Curse of the Brotherhood. I was off by one. As far as I know, only two of those games will be at launch. In this case I was off 1 or 2 games. Furthermore, Microsoft had said that they will be publishing 15 exclusive titles for Year One. They have announced 16 up to this point but I'm willing to bet one of them won't make it out this year. Probably Sunset Overdrive or Quantum Break. It's possible that Microsoft will announce more for 2014 but I highly doubt it and if they do it will be one or two games and likely small ones. Most of Microsoft's studios are brand new so it will be awhile before we see anything from them.

Microsoft being willing to do whatever with whoever is irrelevant to the point I was taking exception with.

No, I was not making comparisions on which company first party is doing the most because I have no clue.  I was only arguing the point that MS is not removing something from the 360 just to piss off 360 fans and not provide support for the console.  My point has nothing to do with Sony and more to do with MS providing support for the X1 with a game that probably benefited best on the X1 then the 360.

As for MS first party studios, most of those Studios were formed 2 years ago so about the right time to bring out a game next year.  Do not forget there is still Black Tusk which we are waiting to see what AAA game they are supose to be making.

In conclusing, I am only making a counter point to fatslob statement that MS only care about their next gen system.


Oh okay, I understand you now. I agree with you. Microsoft is not abandoning the 360 but it is in their best interest to begin moving forward. Sony isn't going to wait for them and it's pretty obvious at this point that Microsoft cannot afford to give up any ground. This last generation was already the longest in quite a while if not the longest console generation ever. The 360 has already been supported for 8 years now. Most consoles are all but dead after 5 or 6 years. I would think that even if Microsoft only supports it for another year that they have already done their part for the console. Even the support Sony shows for their consoles is on the verge of drying up after that long and they're known for supporting their consoles a long time. Even if Microsoft walked away from the 360 tomorrow and just left continued support for its online features, I would not blame them at all.

A studio takes a while to get running though. Setting up facilities, acquiring equipment, getting the people, creating the ideas, and then actually going through the motions of greenlighting projects and making them happen. Studios that already exist have a difficult time getting a game out in two years. More than a few just began recruitment a year or two ago and some will not even be making games for the XOne or just for it. They may also be making purely PC games as well as mobile games. We also don't know how many teams those studios have. We know that Lionhead has two teams and Rare has about three teams but other than that it seems as though all of their other studios are single-team so most of them will likely only be producing one game every few years depending on the size of the game. Another thing to consider is the very fact that these are brand new studios. They are untested. I'm certain some of them will have industry veterans but they still need to show what they've got. You can have 100 individual studios but if only 10 of them are making games worth anything then what's the point? 

As far as Black Tusk goes, I really don't understand the hype behind it. It's a new studio that hasn't released a single game yet but so many Xbox fans are damn near jerking off to whatever their next game is. A game that we know pretty much nothing about. Not even a name. An unproven studio with a mystery game is worth the hype it's been getting? Is it simply because MS said they want their game to rival Halo in popularity?



Machiavellian on 21 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
Not sure what point you are making.  A new console needs support.  It cannot rely on 3rd party studios alone the OEM needs to have their own games which are definitely going to be exclusive and separate the new console from the competition.  You say neither have killer apps, well I disagree.  Both have games coming that consumers believe are killer apps.  Those games might not be killer for you or I but then again, I am not purchasing either on launch.

 

A killer app is something that seriously moves hardware and the only type of app that sony and microsoft have are halo and gt. Oh I know that it can't just rely on 3rd parties alone however what both first parties are offering isn't killer app plus they won't be putting out titles constantly post launch window. 

I believe any good launch should always have at least 3 solid if not top AAA exclusives at the beginning or start within the first year to keep sales on a nice strong pace.  I believe Sony and MS has very solid titles that may not be system sellers by themselves but together with other titles coming making for a strong system launch.

Yet the PS2 launch line up wasn't stellar and it dominated.

There was only the Sega Saturn to contend with and hype was so large for the PS2 it outstripped the worth of the console compared to the Saturn.  I know I was one of those people who thought what the Saturn offered was way better than the PS2 at launch but oh well.



fatslob-:O on 21 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
Not sure what point you are making.  A new console needs support.  It cannot rely on 3rd party studios alone the OEM needs to have their own games which are definitely going to be exclusive and separate the new console from the competition.  You say neither have killer apps, well I disagree.  Both have games coming that consumers believe are killer apps.  Those games might not be killer for you or I but then again, I am not purchasing either on launch.

 

A killer app is something that seriously moves hardware and the only type of app that sony and microsoft have are halo and gt. Oh I know that it can't just rely on 3rd parties alone however what both first parties are offering isn't killer app plus they won't be putting out titles constantly post launch window. 

I believe any good launch should always have at least 3 solid if not top AAA exclusives at the beginning or start within the first year to keep sales on a nice strong pace.  I believe Sony and MS has very solid titles that may not be system sellers by themselves but together with other titles coming making for a strong system launch.

Yet the PS2 launch line up wasn't stellar and it dominated.

There was only the Sega Saturn to contend with and hype was so large for the PS2 it outstripped the worth of the console compared to the Saturn.  I know I was one of those people who thought what the Saturn offered was way better than the PS2 at launch but oh well.

You mean dreamcast ? 

So how about that PS1 launch too also. I'm pretty sure it didn't have great titles either. 



Machiavellian on 21 September 2013
Raven722 said:

Oh okay, I understand you now. I agree with you. Microsoft is not abandoning the 360 but it is in their best interest to begin moving forward. Sony isn't going to wait for them and it's pretty obvious at this point that Microsoft cannot afford to give up any ground. This last generation was already the longest in quite a while if not the longest console generation ever. The 360 has already been supported for 8 years now. Most consoles are all but dead after 5 or 6 years. I would think that even if Microsoft only supports it for another year that they have already done their part for the console. Even the support Sony shows for their consoles is on the verge of drying up after that long and they're known for supporting their consoles a long time. Even if Microsoft walked away from the 360 tomorrow and just left continued support for its online features, I would not blame them at all.

A studio takes a while to get running though. Setting up facilities, acquiring equipment, getting the people, creating the ideas, and then actually going through the motions of greenlighting projects and making them happen. Studios that already exist have a difficult time getting a game out in two years. More than a few just began recruitment a year or two ago and some will not even be making games for the XOne or just for it. They may also be making purely PC games as well as mobile games. We also don't know how many teams those studios have. We know that Lionhead has two teams and Rare has about three teams but other than that it seems as though all of their other studios are single-team so most of them will likely only be producing one game every few years depending on the size of the game. Another thing to consider is the very fact that these are brand new studios. They are untested. I'm certain some of them will have industry veterans but they still need to show what they've got. You can have 100 individual studios but if only 10 of them are making games worth anything then what's the point? 

As far as Black Tusk goes, I really don't understand the hype behind it. It's a new studio that hasn't released a single game yet but so many Xbox fans are damn near jerking off to whatever their next game is. A game that we know pretty much nothing about. Not even a name. An unproven studio with a mystery game is worth the hype it's been getting? Is it simply because MS said they want their game to rival Halo in popularity?

@Bolded:  I totally agree that these are untested studios.  They will have to carve out their success but at least MS is stocking them with veterans to help ease the transistion from startup to dependable.

As for Black Tusk, the hype is because MS stated that they built this studio with the goal of them being on the level of 343.  So MS has brought in a lot of veterans, gave the studio large sums of money to kick out a AAA (doesn't mean good just how much invested) game.  So people who are interested in the X1 is looking to see how AAA will the games be.  It matters not if they are untested, the people who are part of the studio have pretty good track records of top teir games on their resume.  Doesn't mean they cannot make a dude just means that chances are high they come out with something people will enjoy.