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Forums - Microsoft - Why was the original Crimson Dragon canned?

Machiavellian on 21 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
Not sure what point you are making.  A new console needs support.  It cannot rely on 3rd party studios alone the OEM needs to have their own games which are definitely going to be exclusive and separate the new console from the competition.  You say neither have killer apps, well I disagree.  Both have games coming that consumers believe are killer apps.  Those games might not be killer for you or I but then again, I am not purchasing either on launch.

 

A killer app is something that seriously moves hardware and the only type of app that sony and microsoft have are halo and gt. Oh I know that it can't just rely on 3rd parties alone however what both first parties are offering isn't killer app plus they won't be putting out titles constantly post launch window. 

I believe any good launch should always have at least 3 solid if not top AAA exclusives at the beginning or start within the first year to keep sales on a nice strong pace.  I believe Sony and MS has very solid titles that may not be system sellers by themselves but together with other titles coming making for a strong system launch.

Yet the PS2 launch line up wasn't stellar and it dominated.

There was only the Sega Saturn to contend with and hype was so large for the PS2 it outstripped the worth of the console compared to the Saturn.  I know I was one of those people who thought what the Saturn offered was way better than the PS2 at launch but oh well.

You mean dreamcast ? 

So how about that PS1 launch too also. I'm pretty sure it didn't have great titles either. 

My mistake, Dreamcast 

PS 1 from my memory did not do all that great at launch.  It was when Final Fantasy went over to it that things picked up.



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fatslob-:O on 21 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
Not sure what point you are making.  A new console needs support.  It cannot rely on 3rd party studios alone the OEM needs to have their own games which are definitely going to be exclusive and separate the new console from the competition.  You say neither have killer apps, well I disagree.  Both have games coming that consumers believe are killer apps.  Those games might not be killer for you or I but then again, I am not purchasing either on launch.

 

A killer app is something that seriously moves hardware and the only type of app that sony and microsoft have are halo and gt. Oh I know that it can't just rely on 3rd parties alone however what both first parties are offering isn't killer app plus they won't be putting out titles constantly post launch window. 

I believe any good launch should always have at least 3 solid if not top AAA exclusives at the beginning or start within the first year to keep sales on a nice strong pace.  I believe Sony and MS has very solid titles that may not be system sellers by themselves but together with other titles coming making for a strong system launch.

Yet the PS2 launch line up wasn't stellar and it dominated.

There was only the Sega Saturn to contend with and hype was so large for the PS2 it outstripped the worth of the console compared to the Saturn.  I know I was one of those people who thought what the Saturn offered was way better than the PS2 at launch but oh well.

You mean dreamcast ? 

So how about that PS1 launch too also. I'm pretty sure it didn't have great titles either. 

My mistake, Dreamcast 

PS 1 from my memory did not do all that great at launch.  It was when Final Fantasy went over to it that things picked up.

Yet it dominated that generation. 



Machiavellian on 22 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
Not sure what point you are making.  A new console needs support.  It cannot rely on 3rd party studios alone the OEM needs to have their own games which are definitely going to be exclusive and separate the new console from the competition.  You say neither have killer apps, well I disagree.  Both have games coming that consumers believe are killer apps.  Those games might not be killer for you or I but then again, I am not purchasing either on launch.

 

A killer app is something that seriously moves hardware and the only type of app that sony and microsoft have are halo and gt. Oh I know that it can't just rely on 3rd parties alone however what both first parties are offering isn't killer app plus they won't be putting out titles constantly post launch window. 

I believe any good launch should always have at least 3 solid if not top AAA exclusives at the beginning or start within the first year to keep sales on a nice strong pace.  I believe Sony and MS has very solid titles that may not be system sellers by themselves but together with other titles coming making for a strong system launch.

Yet the PS2 launch line up wasn't stellar and it dominated.

There was only the Sega Saturn to contend with and hype was so large for the PS2 it outstripped the worth of the console compared to the Saturn.  I know I was one of those people who thought what the Saturn offered was way better than the PS2 at launch but oh well.

You mean dreamcast ? 

So how about that PS1 launch too also. I'm pretty sure it didn't have great titles either. 

My mistake, Dreamcast 

PS 1 from my memory did not do all that great at launch.  It was when Final Fantasy went over to it that things picked up.

Yet it dominated that generation. 

Since you are only giving me one line answers, what is your point??

My point is to start a console generation, you need solid titles from  first, 2nd and 3rd party. Its good to have first and 2nd since they are exclusive and define the makeup of the console in the beginning.  What does dominating a generation has to do with the start of it?  I am not making any points how things might end up 5 years from now.



fatslob-:O on 22 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
Not sure what point you are making.  A new console needs support.  It cannot rely on 3rd party studios alone the OEM needs to have their own games which are definitely going to be exclusive and separate the new console from the competition.  You say neither have killer apps, well I disagree.  Both have games coming that consumers believe are killer apps.  Those games might not be killer for you or I but then again, I am not purchasing either on launch.

 

A killer app is something that seriously moves hardware and the only type of app that sony and microsoft have are halo and gt. Oh I know that it can't just rely on 3rd parties alone however what both first parties are offering isn't killer app plus they won't be putting out titles constantly post launch window. 

I believe any good launch should always have at least 3 solid if not top AAA exclusives at the beginning or start within the first year to keep sales on a nice strong pace.  I believe Sony and MS has very solid titles that may not be system sellers by themselves but together with other titles coming making for a strong system launch.

Yet the PS2 launch line up wasn't stellar and it dominated.

There was only the Sega Saturn to contend with and hype was so large for the PS2 it outstripped the worth of the console compared to the Saturn.  I know I was one of those people who thought what the Saturn offered was way better than the PS2 at launch but oh well.

You mean dreamcast ? 

So how about that PS1 launch too also. I'm pretty sure it didn't have great titles either. 

My mistake, Dreamcast 

PS 1 from my memory did not do all that great at launch.  It was when Final Fantasy went over to it that things picked up.

Yet it dominated that generation. 

Since you are only giving me one line answers, what is your point??

My point is to start a console generation, you need solid titles from  first, 2nd and 3rd party. Its good to have first and 2nd since they are exclusive and define the makeup of the console in the beginning.  What does dominating a generation has to do with the start of it?  I am not making any points how things might end up 5 years from now.

Like I said launch titles don't determine the consoles worth over time. 



Machiavellian on 22 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
Not sure what point you are making.  A new console needs support.  It cannot rely on 3rd party studios alone the OEM needs to have their own games which are definitely going to be exclusive and separate the new console from the competition.  You say neither have killer apps, well I disagree.  Both have games coming that consumers believe are killer apps.  Those games might not be killer for you or I but then again, I am not purchasing either on launch.

 

A killer app is something that seriously moves hardware and the only type of app that sony and microsoft have are halo and gt. Oh I know that it can't just rely on 3rd parties alone however what both first parties are offering isn't killer app plus they won't be putting out titles constantly post launch window. 

I believe any good launch should always have at least 3 solid if not top AAA exclusives at the beginning or start within the first year to keep sales on a nice strong pace.  I believe Sony and MS has very solid titles that may not be system sellers by themselves but together with other titles coming making for a strong system launch.

Yet the PS2 launch line up wasn't stellar and it dominated.

There was only the Sega Saturn to contend with and hype was so large for the PS2 it outstripped the worth of the console compared to the Saturn.  I know I was one of those people who thought what the Saturn offered was way better than the PS2 at launch but oh well.

You mean dreamcast ? 

So how about that PS1 launch too also. I'm pretty sure it didn't have great titles either. 

My mistake, Dreamcast 

PS 1 from my memory did not do all that great at launch.  It was when Final Fantasy went over to it that things picked up.

Yet it dominated that generation. 

Since you are only giving me one line answers, what is your point??

My point is to start a console generation, you need solid titles from  first, 2nd and 3rd party. Its good to have first and 2nd since they are exclusive and define the makeup of the console in the beginning.  What does dominating a generation has to do with the start of it?  I am not making any points how things might end up 5 years from now.

Like I said launch titles don't determine the consoles worth over time. 

Then we are in agreement on that point.  Selling a console on launch is another thing especially if your closes competitior is also selling theirs at the same time.  Othe consoles you mentioned sold by themselves which is not the same as whats happening now.



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fatslob-:O on 22 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:

Like I said launch titles don't determine the consoles worth over time. 

Then we are in agreement on that point.  Selling a console on launch is another thing especially if your closes competitior is also selling theirs at the same time.  Othe consoles you mentioned sold by themselves which is not the same as whats happening now.


Sold by themselves ? I'm not sure about you but it's the software that moves the hardware and neither of them have killer apps like I said.



Machiavellian on 22 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:

Like I said launch titles don't determine the consoles worth over time. 

Then we are in agreement on that point.  Selling a console on launch is another thing especially if your closes competitior is also selling theirs at the same time.  Othe consoles you mentioned sold by themselves which is not the same as whats happening now.


Sold by themselves ? I'm not sure about you but it's the software that moves the hardware and neither of them have killer apps like I said.

Sold either before or after another product but not at the same time.  

@Bolded:  So what software made the PS1, and PS2 so successful at launch?  I know I cannot remember what was the launch titles for either system.



fatslob-:O on 22 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:

Like I said launch titles don't determine the consoles worth over time. 

Then we are in agreement on that point.  Selling a console on launch is another thing especially if your closes competitior is also selling theirs at the same time.  Othe consoles you mentioned sold by themselves which is not the same as whats happening now.


Sold by themselves ? I'm not sure about you but it's the software that moves the hardware and neither of them have killer apps like I said.

Sold either before or after another product but not at the same time.  

@Bolded:  So what software made the PS1, and PS2 so successful at launch?  I know I cannot remember what was the launch titles for either system.

There was no software at launch that mad the PS1 or the PS2 a success but if you think PS4 or xbone is going to fair any better then just you watch.



Machiavellian on 22 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:

Like I said launch titles don't determine the consoles worth over time. 

Then we are in agreement on that point.  Selling a console on launch is another thing especially if your closes competitior is also selling theirs at the same time.  Othe consoles you mentioned sold by themselves which is not the same as whats happening now.


Sold by themselves ? I'm not sure about you but it's the software that moves the hardware and neither of them have killer apps like I said.

Sold either before or after another product but not at the same time.  

@Bolded:  So what software made the PS1, and PS2 so successful at launch?  I know I cannot remember what was the launch titles for either system.

There was no software at launch that mad the PS1 or the PS2 a success but if you think PS4 or xbone is going to fair any better then just you watch.

Just so you know, my statements are only in the context of launch.  I consider a launch window for about 6 months as thats enough time for hype to increase or decrease.  Its also a time period I believe where you get your first adopters out of the way and now the merits of a console start to unfold.  One of the things that helps the continued sale of a console is marketshare in the beginning.  People usually purchase what their friends get.  Since both cosoles have a wealth of online features and MP type of games, this becomes even more important.  Momentun is also something I consider about the start of a Gen. Momentun and word of mouth keeps a system selling strong.  At launch it will be interesting to see what keeps the PS4 and X1 selling.



fatslob-:O on 22 September 2013
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:

Like I said launch titles don't determine the consoles worth over time. 

Then we are in agreement on that point.  Selling a console on launch is another thing especially if your closes competitior is also selling theirs at the same time.  Othe consoles you mentioned sold by themselves which is not the same as whats happening now.


Sold by themselves ? I'm not sure about you but it's the software that moves the hardware and neither of them have killer apps like I said.

Sold either before or after another product but not at the same time.  

@Bolded:  So what software made the PS1, and PS2 so successful at launch?  I know I cannot remember what was the launch titles for either system.

There was no software at launch that mad the PS1 or the PS2 a success but if you think PS4 or xbone is going to fair any better then just you watch.

Just so you know, my statements are only in the context of launch.  I consider a launch window for about 6 months as thats enough time for hype to increase or decrease.  Its also a time period I believe where you get your first adopters out of the way and now the merits of a console start to unfold.  One of the things that helps the continued sale of a console is marketshare in the beginning.  People usually purchase what their friends get.  Since both cosoles have a wealth of online features and MP type of games, this becomes even more important.  Momentun is also something I consider about the start of a Gen. Momentun and word of mouth keeps a system selling strong.  At launch it will be interesting to see what keeps the PS4 and X1 selling.

I know the answer. 3rd party multiplatform games will overshatter whatever 1st party or 3rd party exclusive games on the PS4/xbone has.