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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Shin'en: If you can't make great looking games on Wii U, it's not the hardware's fault

snowdog said:
Bayonetta 2 is going to be 720p at 60fps. And it's a considerable step up from anything on the PS3 and 360 so far, all you need to do is look at the polygons pushed during the Gomorrah boss fight with the skyscrapers still in the background at 60fps without screen tearing to see that.

Previous gen consoles may be able to manage reproducing that but at sub-HD, probably less polygons and a shitload of screen tearing.


And then people wonder why people attack WiiU hardware...

 

God of War 3 destoryes Bayonetta in almost every aspect



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Kane1389 said:
snowdog said:
Bayonetta 2 is going to be 720p at 60fps. And it's a considerable step up from anything on the PS3 and 360 so far, all you need to do is look at the polygons pushed during the Gomorrah boss fight with the skyscrapers still in the background at 60fps without screen tearing to see that.

Previous gen consoles may be able to manage reproducing that but at sub-HD, probably less polygons and a shitload of screen tearing.


And then people wonder why people attack WiiU hardware...

 

God of War 3 destoryes Bayonetta in almost every aspect


No, it doesn't.

GoW has more attention lavished on its lighting and a more coherent artistic style, but it never presents the kind of expansive backdrops Bayonetta 2's cityscape showcases. Kinda impossible for it to do so, given PS3 has less than half as much RAM as Wii U.



curl-6 said:
Kane1389 said:
snowdog said:
Bayonetta 2 is going to be 720p at 60fps. And it's a considerable step up from anything on the PS3 and 360 so far, all you need to do is look at the polygons pushed during the Gomorrah boss fight with the skyscrapers still in the background at 60fps without screen tearing to see that.

Previous gen consoles may be able to manage reproducing that but at sub-HD, probably less polygons and a shitload of screen tearing.


And then people wonder why people attack WiiU hardware...

 

God of War 3 destoryes Bayonetta in almost every aspect


No, it doesn't.

GoW has more attention lavished on its lighting and a more coherent artistic style, but it never presents the kind of expansive backdrops Bayonetta 2's cityscape showcases. Kinda impossible for it to do so, given PS3 has less than half as much RAM as Wii U.

I don't know about that. Cities are generally easier to render due to the simplified geometry. The view distance of the backgrounds on Bayonetta 2 is very impressive but I think it's feasible on PS3 with a few tweaks.



ninjablade said:
dahuman said:
ninjablade said:
dahuman said:
ninjablade said:
 


lol i talk  shit taht always right, even my sales prediction on the wiiu was dead on since last december, and by the way there are some new quotes from developers about the wiiu hardare saying it par with currentgen, slightly better. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=168707&page=1# and a developer from neogaf also commented on the hardawre saying its very close to currentgen interms of performance.


I don't remember talking about sales with you, I just know you never had a good source when you sprouted non sense, and slightly better =/= on par, maybe you should focus on money and using the funds to go back to school instead of using the time on video games, forums, and gf, if you can't even use your native language properly.

BTW, being able to do DX11 type effects via hardware while having more RAM is an automatic advantage because if 7th gen hardware were to run the same effects, then the Wii U wouldn't just be "slightly" faster in that case. What that means is that you will see effects in Wii U games in the future that can't be run on 7th gen hardware at a reasonable performance level simply due to the innate function differences. Of course, Wii U won't reach X1 or PS4 levels as we've already covered, just like X1 and PS4 won't reach high end PC levels. $(U)->$$$(X1)->$$(PS4)->$$$$(PC) is about it, or you can always add 250(+memory card $) for dual screen on PS4 with a Vita or 600+ for a good tablet for surface support with X1 as well if you don't want to pay 300 dollars for the whole package.

this line came from a developers, he said interms of performance its very close to cuurentgen, here is the quote

On the tech side, having DX11 level features is pretty useful, which makes large parts of the system compatible with our other platforms. Overall the hardware itself is slightly faster than the other current-gen consoles. One very nice advantage the console has is the additional usable memory you have. Having that extra memory made development much easier compared to other current-gen platforms.

Hi,

Please go back to school and take some more English and debate classes.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/par

Your fist step in becoming a better person would be to fix your sig as you have already proven yourself to be wrong on that one.

i havent had time to change my sig i will do it later, and all i'm saying is wiiu ius simialer current gen interms of performance slighty better, and we have heard this from many developers, not to mention the games not looking better the current gen.

nintendo stopped releasing specs once they found out the public was too stupid to understand them. There are still morons convinced the ps2 is more powerful than the gamecube.

Using your logic you might as well call i7's 'beefed up pentiums'. There are nowhere NEAR as many 'new' cpu designs as you think there are. They are near ALL old designs 'beefed up'. In fact, older designs are revisited all the time to see if new technology can bring them back better than newer onez.

The g3 was a damn good processor core, that was shelved because the technology of the time couldnt mantain cache coherency of such a short piped architecture (no multicore), and couldnt increase clock speed, again, because it was such a short piped architecture. The g4 was a g3 with an altivec simd unit bolted on, and the g5 was a red hot disaster.

Fabrication technology has shrunk enough to allow clock speed increases, and edram technology improvements have managed to allow practical cache coherency for multicore.

The instructions per clock on this design is still damn impressive to this day. Literally sitting just behind the jaguars used in xbone/ps4. At around 2.4 vs 2.7 And thats just using stock 750cl ipc. We have no idea what kind of increases in ipc the increase in size to the MASSIVE core caches in espresso have made. But we do know the smaller cache increases from bobcat to jaguar improved ipc 15%.

So yeah, its sitting pretty in ipc even next to ps4/xbone.

Its biggest weakness is its complete lack of modern simd, which is pretty huge today.

Yet the little Mcguffin doesnt seem to even care. Its destroying simd resource hogs and surprising devs who actually try left and right. This isnt just surprising, it shouldnt be possible.

RAD tools just stated they were completely taken by surprise when they found nintendos custom 750 design can run, in full hd the simd or die video codec bink 2. They were expecting to have use the gpu to make up for the lack of simd. But no, the little non simd cpu just eats through it. Hell, BROADWAY could do it too! (640 480 of course)

WTF? HTF?

Simd is like a factory line, it works by being... say, thousands of little processors doing different parts of the same job at the same time, to speed up the job. You can see why it would be considered so important.

Nintendo's custom ppc750 doesnt have the factory... But its still doing all the work in time.

http://www.develop-o...nterview-Bink-2

Bink 2 simd, or go kill yourself.

Bink video change log.

http://www.radgameto...com/bnkhist.htm

Added Wii-U support for Bink 2 - play 30 Hz
1080p or 60 Hz 720p video! We didn't think
this would be possible - the little non-SIMD CPU
that could!

The notion of a non simd cpu muscling through this is ridiculous... No wonder they were surprised. I still have trouble believing it. Could have sworn it would remain bink1 because of its weak simd, or need gpgpu assistance. I always wondered why nintendo didnt add simd to the design. I thought gpgpu was meant to pick up the slack, but there doesnt seem to be near as much slack as I thought.

Its just plain a great cpu core. And its now possible to build up on it again. Nintendo was actually pretty smart here. You can easily attach simd units add more cores, and after a die shrink increase clock speeds to keep it going, competently into the future. I dont think this gen is the last weve seen of nintendos custom g3.

And I dont think its a bad thing. Little bastards earned it.




Scoobes said:
curl-6 said:

No, it doesn't.

GoW has more attention lavished on its lighting and a more coherent artistic style, but it never presents the kind of expansive backdrops Bayonetta 2's cityscape showcases. Kinda impossible for it to do so, given PS3 has less than half as much RAM as Wii U.

I don't know about that. Cities are generally easier to render due to the simplified geometry. The view distance of the backgrounds on Bayonetta 2 is very impressive but I think it's feasible on PS3 with a few tweaks.

I'm not so sure. 1GB is a lot more than <500MB.



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fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Err you realize that bayonetta 1 was at 720p at 60fps on the xbox 360.

And it made smaller and less detailed environments, and simpler lighting, shading, and visual effects compared to what we've seen of Bayonetta 2.

Meh.

The technical difference is quite distinct. Bayonetta 1 is one of my favourite games of the 7th gen, but Wii U's superior RAM and GPU really show when you compare it to Bayo 2, even in the latter's unfinished state.

I don't know about the superior GPU but it does have more ram although slower ram. 

Fatslob = ninjablade.  LMAO.  Guy probably has multiple accounts.



JoeTheBro said:
g911turbo said:
ninjablade said:

then people should stop bringing up X until it does look better then current gen, techincally there is no question GTA5 is doing way more just based of the reveal trailers.

Playing GTA5 now on Xbox 360.  Tons of blur, pop in, slow down etc.  Fantastic game still, but not even close to X.  IF that X footage holds up, even as is, no contest.

Same with The Last of Us. Great graphics.  But no doubt starting to show a little "long in the tooth".  Pop in, muddied motion, stutter, slow down.  A++ game though.  Graphics are good enough, but the current systems are starting to show some age.

Don't have a Wii U yet, but from what I've played of my brothers, and the footage shown of games like Mario Kart, X, etc. - no contest.  The Wii U is clearly benefiting from next generation improvements.  Two main ones right off the bat: A.  More RAM.  B.  Advanced instruction sets in the GPU.

 

Odd. I've been playing on PS3 and the only major blur/pop in occurs when going super fast. GTAV looks well above X. We don't know X's IQ stuff though, so if it ends up being 1080P 60fps, then it can technically beat GTA while looking worse.



You won't have a game on the PS4 or One with that scale pushing that many polys at 1080p let alone the Wii U. Even at 720p what little we've seen of it technically beats GTA V anyway.

X, Bayonetta 2, Mario Kart 8 and SSBU all look beyond the previous gen consoles.



JoeTheBro said:

MDMAlliance said:

???? The game isn't even out yet, much less even having any signs of releasing soon.  

????????????

When discussing the power of a system, you can't say "look at this game. It's amazing. It proves the system has tons of power" and then retreat and say "well it's not amazing yet, the games still in development for pete's sake."

I know by release X should be looking better than it currently does, but right now it doesn't. No point to bring it up yet.

With DriveClub we knew it would start looking better too, but no one used it as a testament of the PS4's power until it actually did look better.

I don't understand the discussion. X was clearly above anything ps360 could imagine since the first trailer. the second trailer showed a graphical improvement, wich means it will be even more impressive when it releases. it's simple as that.



orniletter said:


That wasn´t my point, I said that the pop in (which seriously is a small nitpick) can be explained by the game still being far off.

It doesn´t look amazing...really ?

...I know I know opinions and all that...but

and

...there really isn´t anything on the old consoles that is comparable to the scale of X...although people are impressed by GTA V

(and no, God of War and Uncharted/ The Last of Us aren´t Open World RPGs !)

Edit: ...come on:

there's no contest, X wins with the hands tied on the back. for comparison's sake:

 

 



ninjablade said:
JoeTheBro said:

At this point it's still something very possible on ps360. That's what I'm saying.

The fact that GTA5 looks better in every department then X, from models, lighting, textures, animation and AA, you would think people would stop bringing up X but they still do, i swear if bayo2, mario kart 8 and X were were on 360/ps3 nobody would call them the best looking games on those consoles.

wrong on every statement but keep trying.