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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Shin'en: If you can't make great looking games on Wii U, it's not the hardware's fault

curl-6 on 21 September 2013
forethought14 said:
@fatslob

Espresso is slow compared to PS360 if you make it perform floating point performance tasks. Its only method for doing these SIMD tasks is via paired singles, and at this clock, it likely doesn't match those two. Though there were benchmarks done by a member of Neogaf (blu) that proves that the architecture of Broadway isn't too bad at these tasks at all, just likely not at the same level as PS360. But it's a processor with strengths in places like GP or integer code, something the PS360 are just terrible at. Calling Espresso "slow" is not fair at all, since it's not designed to do much of those floating point tasks. Probably why Iwata encourages GPGPU, because that could alleviate Espresso.

Exactly. The CPU may be the Wii U's weakest link, but it's so different from the PS3/360 CPUs that a direct comparison of speed isn't very helpful.

As Criterion said: 

"When they first looked at the specs on paper a lot of developers said, 'Well, you know this is a bit lightweight' and they walked away. I think a lot of people have been premature about it in a lot of ways because while it is a lower clock-speed, it punches above its weight in a lot of other areas.

So, I think you've got one group of people who walked away, you've got some other people who just dived in and tried and thought, 'Ah... it's not kind of there,' but not many people have done what we've done, which is to sit down and look at where it's weaker and why, but also see where it's stronger and leverage that. It's a different kind of chip and it's not fair to look at its clock-speed and other consoles' clock-speed and compare them as numbers that are relevant. It's not a relevant comparison to make when you have processors that are so divergent. It's apples and oranges."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-need-for-speed-most-wanted-wii-u-behind-the-scenes



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fatslob-:O on 21 September 2013
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Anandtech also does a little benchmarking and finds out that the WII U's processor doesn't obliterate the tablet processors. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6465/nintendo-wii-u-teardown

And by obliterate I mean being able to get like 2 to 3 times more performance than the motorola droid. 

You realize that digital foundry's article has some evidence.

That benchmark is a test of browser speed, not processor speed.

And yes, Digital Foundry has some evidence, but they don't have the whole picture, which they admit in the article.

I'm pretty sure it test the processor speed and not the internet speed and that benchmark was used for processing miscellaneous things on a cpu and what's more is that by looking at the tables it's slower than the phone processors. I just noticed lower is better.

The article blames the lower benchmark performance on the browser using an older version of Webkit, saying it's likely a browser software issue, hence not a processing power issue. It's not surprising that a console browser would underperform compared to tablets, where web browsing is more of a priority. 

I know but still even with with an older web browser it got decimated and plus isn't the ibm espresso a full fledged processor compared to sh#tty phone processors, it's has to top something atleast even with some software issues. Oh BTW the test is more than just a browser it tests on everything such as rendering, image, word, and sound processing, and even crpytography.



fatslob-:O on 21 September 2013
forethought14 said:
@fatslob

Espresso is slow compared to PS360 if you make it perform floating point performance tasks. Its only method for doing these SIMD tasks is via paired singles, and at this clock, it likely doesn't match those two. Though there were benchmarks done by a member of Neogaf (blu) that proves that the architecture of Broadway isn't too bad at these tasks at all, just likely not at the same level as PS360. But it's a processor with strengths in places like GP or integer code, something the PS360 are just terrible at. Calling Espresso "slow" is not fair at all, since it's not designed to do much of those floating point tasks. Probably why Iwata encourages GPGPU, because that could alleviate Espresso.

You do realize that doing gpgpu is awkward on a VLIW architecture, right ? (What's more is that it's awkward for alot of developers.)

And what's more is that gameplay physics is best done on a cpu that depends on floating point power so does this mean that the WII U won't have alot of rigid body physics ?



curl-6 on 21 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

The article blames the lower benchmark performance on the browser using an older version of Webkit, saying it's likely a browser software issue, hence not a processing power issue. It's not surprising that a console browser would underperform compared to tablets, where web browsing is more of a priority. 

I know but still even with with an older web browser it got decimated and plus isn't the ibm espresso a full fledged processor compared to sh#tty phone processors, it's has to top something atleast even with some software issues. Oh BTW the test is more than just a browser it tests on everything such as rendering, image, word, and sound processing, and even crpytography.

A crappy web browser could  still easily bring down the overall result.

What's more, in a game environment, Espresso is designed to work in tandem with the system's GPGPU, Latte. I doubt a generalized browser benchmark test leveraged Latte's contributions.



fatslob-:O on 21 September 2013
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

The article blames the lower benchmark performance on the browser using an older version of Webkit, saying it's likely a browser software issue, hence not a processing power issue. It's not surprising that a console browser would underperform compared to tablets, where web browsing is more of a priority. 

I know but still even with with an older web browser it got decimated and plus isn't the ibm espresso a full fledged processor compared to sh#tty phone processors, it's has to top something atleast even with some software issues. Oh BTW the test is more than just a browser it tests on everything such as rendering, image, word, and sound processing, and even crpytography.

A crappy web browser could  still easily bring down the overall result.

What's more, in a game environment, Espresso is designed to work in tandem with the system's GPGPU, Latte. I doubt a generalized browser benchmark test leveraged Latte's contributions.

Read my response to forethought14.



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curl-6 on 22 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

A crappy web browser could  still easily bring down the overall result.

What's more, in a game environment, Espresso is designed to work in tandem with the system's GPGPU, Latte. I doubt a generalized browser benchmark test leveraged Latte's contributions.

Read my response to forethought14.

I'll let him take that one, so we don't end up creating two pointlessly samey threads of conversation, haha.



Ji99saw on 22 September 2013

We all know the Wii U is weak as fuck,how anemic the power of the Wii U truly is a pointless and irrelevant conversation. And comparing it to 7 year old consoles is completely pathetic and sad

Moderated,

-Mr Khan



Without order nothing can exist - without chaos nothing can evolve.

"I don't debate, I just give you that work"- Ji99saw

Cobretti2 on 22 September 2013
Th3PANO said:
ninjablade said:
JoeTheBro said:
MDMAlliance said:
JoeTheBro said:

????????????

When discussing the power of a system, you can't say "look at this game. It's amazing. It proves the system has tons of power" and then retreat and say "well it's not amazing yet, the games still in development for pete's sake."

I know by release X should be looking better than it currently does, but right now it doesn't. No point to bring it up yet.

With DriveClub we knew it would start looking better too, but no one used it as a testament of the PS4's power until it actually did look better.

What I'm saying is that the way you were saying it sounded like that was inherently the problem with the game.  Also, regardless of the shortcomings, it is still a technical feat.  It's obvious to people watching that it will look better after some polishing.

At this point it's still something very possible on ps360. That's what I'm saying.

The fact that GTA5 looks better in every department then X, from models, lighting, textures, animation and AA, you would think people would stop bringing up X but they still do, i swear if bayo2, mario kart 8 and X were were on 360/ps3 nobody would call them the best looking games on those consoles.

WTF are you serious? GTA is great fun but the graphics aren't amazing at all lol. Characters look sometimes really weird. IF you look at the city from a distance it just gets all blocky. The textures are blurred as hell, pop ups everywhere. FPS problems. I will laugh at you when the next couple of Wii U games get released next year.


Yer I noticed that too. especially in the stri clubs when you getting a private dance, the boobs just look weird the way they modelled.



 

 

g911turbo on 22 September 2013
ninjablade said:
orniletter said:
JoeTheBro said:

orniletter sai


I still don't understand why people think X is some amazing technical showcase. It's a great open world, but it has lots of pop up and low res textures.

Yeah, this early version that was still more than a year away from release looked unpolished around the edges ! Who would have thought ?

(Those are the things that are done in the last months, look how much Driveclub has improved in this short time period, that game was flat out mediocre looking before, but is quite nice now ! )

then people should stop bringing up X until it does look better then current gen, techincally there is no question GTA5 is doing way more just based of the reveal trailers.

Playing GTA5 now on Xbox 360.  Tons of blur, pop in, slow down etc.  Fantastic game still, but not even close to X.  IF that X footage holds up, even as is, no contest.

Same with The Last of Us. Great graphics.  But no doubt starting to show a little "long in the tooth".  Pop in, muddied motion, stutter, slow down.  A++ game though.  Graphics are good enough, but the current systems are starting to show some age.

Don't have a Wii U yet, but from what I've played of my brothers, and the footage shown of games like Mario Kart, X, etc. - no contest.  The Wii U is clearly benefiting from next generation improvements.  Two main ones right off the bat: A.  More RAM.  B.  Advanced instruction sets in the GPU.

 



fatslob-:O on 22 September 2013

I'll say this though, X looks good.