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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Don't worry about Atari, they will be around forever!

sethnintendo on 07 September 2013
archbrix said:

He's talking about Hard Drivin' in reference to Rol's example of Club Drive.

I agree on the Genesis Ghostbusters game though; that game was very cool. I'd buy it on the VC in a second if it ever released.


Looked up Club Drive and it doesn't look like much of an improvement over Hard Drivin'...  Looks like worse physics. 

Edit- oh wait I guess the game was designed that way



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Play4Fun on 07 September 2013
richardhutnik said:
 

1. What you wrote there explains why there is now a clear lack of internally developed new IP that is must have.  Nintendo is recycling their old IP over and over again, and not doing no.  It is 2D/3D Mario, Mario Party, Mario Kart, Smash Bros., Zelda, and maybe Metroid.  There is also Donkey Kong Country.  But where is the new IP?  Where is the big new must have property Nintendo is coming out with?  That is the issue I am talking about here.  It just isn't there.  It isn't like there isn't new IP being produced.  There is Angry Birds, and also Minecraft.  And there are others.  They are NOT coming from Nintendo.  Nintendo is going outside their company to get new IP done, with the likes of the Wonderful 101.

2. On console lifespan, look at the Wii.  Because it is weak tech, it ended up having shorter life than the 360 or PS3.  Companies never really got around to doing much third-party on it either, outside of primarily shovelware.  The Wii U is in a similar boat.  Because it doesn't match the ONE or PS4 in power, companies are only doing Wii U stuff with development on the 360 and PS3.  

3. THIS generation isn't showing any.  The Wii had a new, accessible interface, and got some.  But new stuff?  Where is it?  What is the big new IP on the 3DS and Wii U that is new and must have, that is doing really, really well.  Nintendo isn't putting it out.  Let's Dance isn't their property at all, and is on other platforms.

Also note here, let's say you can read what I wrote as it NOT being a slam of Nintendo, but something else.  What you read it as is this: Where the new IP is coming from is NOT the console makers.  It is coming from small studios and Indie stuff.  It is on smart devices.  That is where the new stuff is popping up, NOT consoles.  This is bigger than just Nintendo.  Things have changed.


1. Why do you keep mentioning new IPs all the time? What's that got to do with Nintendo's longevity or the main topic of this thread? Anyways:

“ What makes it a new game is new gameplay and new interactions. So when we’re creating a game, we’re always looking at it from, ‘What is the gameplay, and how are we making that gameplay new?’ And then, ‘Who is the character that is best suited to that gameplay?’ Miyamoto.

Also, why did you ignore some of the new Nintendo IPs I listed so you can go on about a lack of internally developed new Ips? And why did you mention Let's Dance not being their IP? I never said said it was. How is W101 being externally developed somehow a bad thing? Externally developed first party games are a normal thing in this industry.

2. Wii had a normal console lifespan. It's Ps360 that had longer than normal lifecycles, and that was partly because they made so many losses earlier in the gen that they wanted to squeeze out every bit of profitability out of them. And how did we reach on the subject of 3rd party support now?

3. What does new IPs have to do with the success of 3DS or Wii U? I don't see where you're going with this or what it really has to do with the main topic. You're all over the place.

I never said this thread was a slam on Nintendo. You say new things  are only coming from indies and and small studios on smartphones? okay then, how many of those big new games can you name besides two, which is Minecraft and Angry Birds. Both of those came out last gen and console makers made many new IPs last gen. You are blowing this out of proportion.



richardhutnik on 07 September 2013
archbrix said:
richardhutnik said:
sethnintendo said:
RolStoppable said:
Remember Ghostbusters 2? The Statue of Liberty was controlled with an NES Advantage.

Atari was led by people who had no clue about video games whatsoever and who then were steamrolled by companies who knew what they were doing. Atari had no IPs to survive the storm, because their games couldn't compete in any manner. The Jaguar was the end of their run and Club Drive is symbolic for the quality of Atari as a video game developer.


I'm afraid to admit that I played this game on the Genesis...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Drivin%27

I semi enjoyed it but it had terrible controls which made the game more difficult than it should have.  Atari did decent for awhile but they barely had any IPs to themselves and mainly relied on 3rd party companies.

I thought the Sega Genesis Ghostbusters game was actually decent.  Is that the same one you are thinking of?

When the arcades went down, Atari began to seriously fade from the marketplace.  When you lose a console, you increasingly become irrelevant.  Sega is in that boat now, nowhere near what they were when they had a console.  I believe Nintendo would likewise be similar if they ended up not having a console.  Mario would go the way of Sonic without Nintendo having its own console to showcase Mario and others.  Metroid would get lost, as would Zelda.  People just wouldn't care as much at all.  I believe this is a reason why you Nintendo argues against going third-party.

He's talking about Hard Drivin' in reference to Rol's example of Club Drive.

I agree on the Genesis Ghostbusters game though; that game was very cool. I'd buy it on the VC in a second if it ever released.

I see what was written could also refer to that.  I wasn't sure if the NES Ghostbusters was confused with the Genesis version, so I commented.  Also, in regards to Atari, I thought the Atari Ghostbusters was actually good all around, with good writing an acting.  Ok, maybe that is me.

I thought it would be cool to get the Genesis Ghostbusters again, but saw a local retro games store was selling the Genesis version for $50 cart alone.  BLECH!



Metallicube on 07 September 2013

Lol at comparing Nintendo to Atari.. Two completely different companies in two completely different situations. I look at history to get a clearer picture of the future.. Nintendo has been around for 150 years. How long have Sony and MS been around? If anything, I'd say they have a better chance to bite the dust than Nintendo, at least their gaming divisions.

I will never understand why certain people seem to have this orgiastic obsession with Nintendo exiting the hardware business. If that happened, the quality within the industry would go down immensely, and another crash would probably follow..



richardhutnik on 07 September 2013
Play4Fun said:
richardhutnik said:
 

1. What you wrote there explains why there is now a clear lack of internally developed new IP that is must have.  Nintendo is recycling their old IP over and over again, and not doing no.  It is 2D/3D Mario, Mario Party, Mario Kart, Smash Bros., Zelda, and maybe Metroid.  There is also Donkey Kong Country.  But where is the new IP?  Where is the big new must have property Nintendo is coming out with?  That is the issue I am talking about here.  It just isn't there.  It isn't like there isn't new IP being produced.  There is Angry Birds, and also Minecraft.  And there are others.  They are NOT coming from Nintendo.  Nintendo is going outside their company to get new IP done, with the likes of the Wonderful 101.

2. On console lifespan, look at the Wii.  Because it is weak tech, it ended up having shorter life than the 360 or PS3.  Companies never really got around to doing much third-party on it either, outside of primarily shovelware.  The Wii U is in a similar boat.  Because it doesn't match the ONE or PS4 in power, companies are only doing Wii U stuff with development on the 360 and PS3.  

3. THIS generation isn't showing any.  The Wii had a new, accessible interface, and got some.  But new stuff?  Where is it?  What is the big new IP on the 3DS and Wii U that is new and must have, that is doing really, really well.  Nintendo isn't putting it out.  Let's Dance isn't their property at all, and is on other platforms.

Also note here, let's say you can read what I wrote as it NOT being a slam of Nintendo, but something else.  What you read it as is this: Where the new IP is coming from is NOT the console makers.  It is coming from small studios and Indie stuff.  It is on smart devices.  That is where the new stuff is popping up, NOT consoles.  This is bigger than just Nintendo.  Things have changed.


1. Why do you keep mentioning new IPs all the time? What's that got to do with Nintendo's longevity or the main topic of this thread? Anyways:

“ What makes it a new game is new gameplay and new interactions. So when we’re creating a game, we’re always looking at it from, ‘What is the gameplay, and how are we making that gameplay new?’ And then, ‘Who is the character that is best suited to that gameplay?’ Miyamoto.

Also, why did you ignore some of the new Nintendo IPs I listed so you can go on about a lack of internally developed new Ips? And why did you mention Let's Dance not being their IP? I never said said it was. How is W101 being externally developed somehow a bad thing? Externally developed first party games are a normal thing in this industry.

2. Wii had a normal console lifespan. It's Ps360 that had longer than normal lifecycles, and that was partly because they made so many losses earlier in the gen that they wanted to squeeze out every bit of profitability out of them. And how did we reach on the subject of 3rd party support now?

3. What does new IPs have to do with the success of 3DS or Wii U? I don't see where you're going with this or what it really has to do with the main topic. You're all over the place.

I never said this thread was a slam on Nintendo. You say new things  are only coming from indies and and small studios on smartphones? okay then, how many of those big new games can you name besides two, which is Minecraft and Angry Birds. Both of those came out last gen and console makers made many new IPs last gen. You are blowing this out of proportion.

1. New IP is CRITICAL to the longevity of a company.  End result is a company relying on new IP, ends up with a portfolio full of Tony Hawk and Guitar Heroes.   New IP means keeping up with new demands.  You control this, you remain on top.  You see Bushnell commenting what happened to Atari.  One can only milk old IP for so long.

2. Iwata expected longer than normal lifespan for the Wii: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/188207/wii-lifespan-will-last-over-four-years/

Reality is that the Wii started to tail off sooner than the plan, and Nintendo went with the Wii U, and had a one year window to get it out, and now it isn't doing well.

3. All over the place is happening, because various things are being discussed.  And now, what I speak of is the truth.  The big new IP, which is what is getting the interest and sales, is mainly in the smart device arena, and indies and small studios.  There is a few AAA on top, like Assassin's Creed.  But the other stuff that is sucking up the cash and attention are the likes of Angry Birds, Minecraft, and also things like Candy Crush.



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JazzB1987 on 07 September 2013
richardhutnik said:

So, in the usual round of cheerleading, you have individuals saying to not worry about Nintendo, Activision, etc...  People see today and presume everything will be ok.  OBVIOUSLY Nintendo knows what they are doing.  How can they fail?  They have been around FOREVER.  And Activision has Call of Duty and others.  So, no need to worry, right?

Well, check this out:

You know what that is?  That is the Atari name and logo from the movie Bladerunner.  You see, back in the heyday of Atari, you had people predicting Atari would be around forever, even into the 21st century and be epically huge still and synonymous with videogames.  Well, hate to tell you this, but they aren't. 

If you think one minute your beloved company will be around forever, and they can't face major issues even over the next few years, you are fooling yourself.  It can happen.  It has happened, and will happen again.

There is 1 huge difference.   Atari  was never BIG.   Nintendo is MASSIVE.   Saying Nintendo will vanish soon is bullshit because at least a decade will have to pass before they are in trouble. And over this decade there will be enough chances to save their own asses. 

Nintendo is not even thinking about being in trouble right now.    Before Nintendo will vanish  Sony will (because they were struggling over the last few years and still are)   EA is also one that will be gone before Nintendo as did THQ.

Sony and EA are fighting for their survival right now.  I will start to worry when Nintendo is too.



ListerOfSmeg on 07 September 2013
richardhutnik said:
snyps said:
how long did atari last as the no. 1 earner?

They owned the home videogame market from the late 70s until the crash of the early 1980s that took out everyone.  Even at the bottom, they still sold like 1 million 2600 systems.  I still have visions of a guy going into to buy a 2600 at Toys R Us instead of an NES.  They were also king of the arcades to from when Pong went out until the same period of the crash.

Pretty much though, what you saw with Atari is the norm.  Some console dominates on top, then the maker stops dominating.  There are individuals too young to remember this, who ended up presuming that Sony would be on top forever, and the Playstation brand being THE brand.  In this, individuals who don't know this history get a bad case of hubris.

With about every time here, something comes along that people don't see, and disrupts the order of things, just as the Wii did.  Now you are seeing the smart device market playing the role home computers had in the past, and could put a big hurt on things.

So from 1978 or so til 1983... Yeah man that is such a long time.

You really are trying too hard to make your bias opinion seem legit.

You can only show flawed examples of this. Atari wasnt king for more than a generation. Every console after that failed miserable. The Atari of today isnt the same as the Atari back then. The company split between the console division and the arcade division and both went under within 10years. How is this in any way like Nintendo who has been around for over 100 years?

I think most of us get what you are saying. You hate them, you want them gone, yet you have nothing to show that they will. Ataris first console killed the market. The Nes saved it. End of story.

1. Nintendo has many new IPs. just because you refuse to see them doesnt mean they dont exist and takes credit away from you for wanting to pretend they dont exist. Even with their new IPs they remain strong because of existing franchises.

I'm just not going to bother. You have your mind made up and will ignore any fact or even reality itself to try to prove yourself right.

 

Looking at some of your other post, you havent gotten a single thing correct. Its all just spin without any basis to back it up. What you have to back it up you are either making up or ignoring reality in order to justify it.

 

BTW all your smart device BS talk also applies to Sony and MS, not just Nintendo. What new stellar AAA IP do they have that will cause them to rise to the top? The 8th killzone? 3 year old PC ports? Charging for online? None of it is new, none of it is innovative.



noname2200 on 07 September 2013
JazzB1987 said:

There is 1 huge difference.   Atari  was never BIG.  

This is factually incorrect.



noname2200 on 07 September 2013
ListerOfSmeg said:

I think most of us get what you are saying. You hate them, you want them gone, yet you have nothing to show that they will.

I'm not sure that's a fair reading.



richardhutnik on 07 September 2013
noname2200 said:
ListerOfSmeg said:

I think most of us get what you are saying. You hate them, you want them gone, yet you have nothing to show that they will.

I'm not sure that's a fair reading.

JazzB1987 said:

There is 1 huge difference.   Atari  was never BIG.  

This is factually incorrect.

It is amazing what people are reading into things and spinning, to try to justify what they are doing.  Relative to what the videogame indusrty was, back in the day (yes today is much larger), Atari was huge.  People don't want to see that, because it diminishes what could be argued here.  You have one person say that Atari took down the industry, and another who says they aren't that big?  I am getting an impression that I have hit a nerve here. Apparently people don't want to think of Nintendo going the way of Atari.  Is Nintendo's path the same as Atari's?  No.  Can it have issues and end up becoming a non-big player?  Yes.  Analysts have plenty of reasons to think Nintendo has issues, that are sound.  Nintendo MUST somehow get the Wii U to start selling like gangbusters.  Nintendo can't afford to have the Wii U not be dominant.  It is the cheapest console.  To have it not sell well is not good.  It means Nintendo missed the target on what people want, and the second screen wasn't it.  The 3DS is doing it without 3D, so not sure Nintendo has a grip on stuff.

And I await for someone to call me a "stealth Michael Pachter" on here, because of the belief that I somehow hate Nintendo and want them to fail.  Why the heck would I want anyone to fail?  It is not good for the industry to lose a console maker.  If you want to know my bias though, I wouldn't mind Microsoft getting a hurting.  They seriously lost me.  BUT, I own a 3DS (not a Vita).  And I try to base what I am saying on what I see, not what I want to see.  I am under the impression that, given a gray area of uncertainty, you have partisans here spinning things as they will.  I am told I have nothing to show Nintendo could have issues?  Well, people posted plenty and people want to deny.  People are even calling Nolan Bushnell and failed idiot on here, when Nolan knows more than many people on here, even if he is not exactly working in the industry.  

People on here will end up denying everyone over stuff, including the sales numbers looking them right in their faces here.  Look at the sales page.  The Wii U is having problems people.  Yes I am told I want Nintendo to fail, and read about stuff that can just as easily point to Activision as their times can be limited also, but it is straight up Nintendo only.

For those who say there is NOTHING out there I present to shows POSSIBLE issues, here you go:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/08/01/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-nintendo/

http://www.vg247.com/2013/07/05/nintendo-in-a-world-of-trouble-right-now-says-pachter/

http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/01/the-deanbeat-the-troubles-of-nintendo-start-with-a-dearth-of-developers/

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/07/technology/nintendo-problem/index.html

http://www.policymic.com/articles/48649/wii-u-and-e3-why-nintendo-is-in-serious-trouble

 

Want to know what the Wii U reminds me of now?  It reminds me of the Dreamcast, a favorite console in my day when it came out.