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Forums - Microsoft - Indepth Look a Xbox One's 'GPU'

Zappykins said:

I think some of those are typos.  He even has the undervalued the GPU at one point.  I thought it was already fairly well agreed it had a peak of 264GB/s.

But yea, Microsoft is doing some interesting things under the hood.  They must think they are worth it, or why would they make one of the largest chips every made for the Xbox One.  With it giant cache and those 15 extra co-processors, plus two more in Kinect.

Looking forward to seeing them running in person.  Just two more months.

109GB/s min and 204GB/s peak is from MS slides... 264GB/s was a mistaked caused by the low quality of the first slides.

Hi quality.



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Mmmfishtacos said:

What where did you get that from? 

Cerny says the PS4's custom silicon incorporates not only the CPU and GPU, but also a "large number of other units." The chip has a dedicated audio unit to perform processing for voice chat and multiple audio streams. It also has a hardware block designed explicitly for zlib decompression. The main processor is backed by a secondary chip that enables an ultra-low-power mode for background downloading. In that mode, the CPU and GPU shut down, leaving only the auxiliary chip, system memory, networking, and storage active.

http://techreport.com/news/24725/ps4-architect-discusses-console-custom-amd-processor

Well, to answer your first question - from the Sony PS4 reveal.  I did watch it and did pay attention.  What they announced that day is a decent chip, but still significantly smaller then what Microsoft is showing.

The secondary lower power mode is that is not the same thing as co-processors.  It's good that it can go to low power mode.  But they didn't want to get into the same problems as will the cell - i.e. cumbersome to program.  It was a concern of mine that Xbox has made the same mistake. It looks like Microsoft is keeping the co-processors and programing as part of their DirectX and OS systems, so the developers do not need to concern themselves with them.

I hope it's true the PS4 have an easy to program co-processors for sound and other things..  But why are there reports that they are asking people to use the GPU for sound processing? Plus, they don't have the same resources physically according to Sony's own statements.  There just isn't and much extra stuff on the chip.

Also, from the article you sent: "All the focus on general-purpose GPU computing suggests the console's CPU component is relatively weak, which isn't a big surprise."

Sony and Microsoft went about the next gen system in different ways.  Microsoft enhanced the CPU as part of their strategy.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Mmmfishtacos said:
Zappykins said:
RenCutypoison said:
Nice article, very interesting.

Now I hope nobody will try again to say that xbone memory bandwith is over the ps4's by adding eDRAM and DRAM's bandwith. That's getting old.

I know! Like you even need to show that.  Cause the Xbox One has 15 additional Co-processors, and Sony is telling it's developers to use the PS4 GPU to produce sound. Yes, the Xbox One has seperate processors to handle the sound why others have to made to on the GPU.

The Xbox One CPU is one of the largest chips ever made.  Isn't it kinda funny how some are so scared of it.


What where did you get that from? 

Cerny says the PS4's custom silicon incorporates not only the CPU and GPU, but also a "large number of other units." The chip has a dedicated audio unit to perform processing for voice chat and multiple audio streams. It also has a hardware block designed explicitly for zlib decompression. The main processor is backed by a secondary chip that enables an ultra-low-power mode for background downloading. In that mode, the CPU and GPU shut down, leaving only the auxiliary chip, system memory, networking, and storage active.

http://techreport.com/news/24725/ps4-architect-discusses-console-custom-amd-processor

I have more faith in Sony for sound then MS. The ps3 can handle all audio formats, upto uncompressed 192khz 24bit 7.1 and even transform Dolby True HD to 1.5 mbps DTS optical output on the fly to work with my older amp. MS has some catching up to do, 360 can only handle 640kbps DD 5.1

It would be nice if we get some games with 96/192 khz surround sound with all this dedicated sound hardware.



Zappykins said:
Mmmfishtacos said:

What where did you get that from? 

Cerny says the PS4's custom silicon incorporates not only the CPU and GPU, but also a "large number of other units." The chip has a dedicated audio unit to perform processing for voice chat and multiple audio streams. It also has a hardware block designed explicitly for zlib decompression. The main processor is backed by a secondary chip that enables an ultra-low-power mode for background downloading. In that mode, the CPU and GPU shut down, leaving only the auxiliary chip, system memory, networking, and storage active.

http://techreport.com/news/24725/ps4-architect-discusses-console-custom-amd-processor

Well, to answer your first question - from the Sony PS4 reveal.  I did watch it and did pay attention.  What they announced that day is a decent chip, but still significantly smaller then what Microsoft is showing.

The secondary lower power mode is that is not the same thing as co-processors.  It's good that it can go to low power mode.  But they didn't want to get into the same problems as will the cell - i.e. cumbersome to program.  It was a concern of mine that Xbox has made the same mistake. It looks like Microsoft is keeping the co-processors and programing as part of their DirectX and OS systems, so the developers do not need to concern themselves with them.

I hope it's true the PS4 have an easy to program co-processors for sound and other things..  But why are there reports that they are asking people to use the GPU for sound processing? Plus, they don't have the same resources physically according to Sony's own statements.  There just isn't and much extra stuff on the chip.

Also, from the article you sent: "All the focus on general-purpose GPU computing suggests the console's CPU component is relatively weak, which isn't a big surprise."

Sony and Microsoft went about the next gen system in different ways.  Microsoft enhanced the CPU as part of their strategy.

Both Cpu are relatively weak. Even with MS upgrades. I paid attention at the reveal too, and I have no idea what you're talking about. It's right there in the article. The secondary chip will process sound and voice chat. 



Mmmfishtacos said:
Zappykins said:

Well, to answer your first question - from the Sony PS4 reveal.  I did watch it and did pay attention.  What they announced that day is a decent chip, but still significantly smaller then what Microsoft is showing.

The secondary lower power mode is that is not the same thing as co-processors.  It's good that it can go to low power mode.  But they didn't want to get into the same problems as will the cell - i.e. cumbersome to program.  It was a concern of mine that Xbox has made the same mistake. It looks like Microsoft is keeping the co-processors and programing as part of their DirectX and OS systems, so the developers do not need to concern themselves with them.

I hope it's true the PS4 have an easy to program co-processors for sound and other things..  But why are there reports that they are asking people to use the GPU for sound processing? Plus, they don't have the same resources physically according to Sony's own statements.  There just isn't and much extra stuff on the chip.

Also, from the article you sent: "All the focus on general-purpose GPU computing suggests the console's CPU component is relatively weak, which isn't a big surprise."

Sony and Microsoft went about the next gen system in different ways.  Microsoft enhanced the CPU as part of their strategy.

Both Cpu are relatively weak. Even with MS upgrades. I paid attention at the reveal too, and I have no idea what you're talking about. It's right there in the article. The secondary chip will process sound and voice chat. 

Ok, good luck with that then.  Don't read the articles though, you might not be happy.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

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SvennoJ said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Zappykins said:
RenCutypoison said:
Nice article, very interesting.

Now I hope nobody will try again to say that xbone memory bandwith is over the ps4's by adding eDRAM and DRAM's bandwith. That's getting old.

I know! Like you even need to show that.  Cause the Xbox One has 15 additional Co-processors, and Sony is telling it's developers to use the PS4 GPU to produce sound. Yes, the Xbox One has seperate processors to handle the sound why others have to made to on the GPU.

The Xbox One CPU is one of the largest chips ever made.  Isn't it kinda funny how some are so scared of it.


What where did you get that from? 

Cerny says the PS4's custom silicon incorporates not only the CPU and GPU, but also a "large number of other units." The chip has a dedicated audio unit to perform processing for voice chat and multiple audio streams. It also has a hardware block designed explicitly for zlib decompression. The main processor is backed by a secondary chip that enables an ultra-low-power mode for background downloading. In that mode, the CPU and GPU shut down, leaving only the auxiliary chip, system memory, networking, and storage active.

http://techreport.com/news/24725/ps4-architect-discusses-console-custom-amd-processor

I have more faith in Sony for sound then MS. The ps3 can handle all audio formats, upto uncompressed 192khz 24bit 7.1 and even transform Dolby True HD to 1.5 mbps DTS optical output on the fly to work with my older amp. MS has some catching up to do, 360 can only handle 640kbps DD 5.1

It would be nice if we get some games with 96/192 khz surround sound with all this dedicated sound hardware.

Agreed, I don't think sony is going to go backwards. Ps3 was the best media center blu ray player on the market and i don't expect that to change with the ps4



SvennoJ said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Zappykins said:
RenCutypoison said:
Nice article, very interesting.

Now I hope nobody will try again to say that xbone memory bandwith is over the ps4's by adding eDRAM and DRAM's bandwith. That's getting old.

I know! Like you even need to show that.  Cause the Xbox One has 15 additional Co-processors, and Sony is telling it's developers to use the PS4 GPU to produce sound. Yes, the Xbox One has seperate processors to handle the sound why others have to made to on the GPU.

The Xbox One CPU is one of the largest chips ever made.  Isn't it kinda funny how some are so scared of it.


What where did you get that from? 

Cerny says the PS4's custom silicon incorporates not only the CPU and GPU, but also a "large number of other units." The chip has a dedicated audio unit to perform processing for voice chat and multiple audio streams. It also has a hardware block designed explicitly for zlib decompression. The main processor is backed by a secondary chip that enables an ultra-low-power mode for background downloading. In that mode, the CPU and GPU shut down, leaving only the auxiliary chip, system memory, networking, and storage active.

http://techreport.com/news/24725/ps4-architect-discusses-console-custom-amd-processor

I have more faith in Sony for sound then MS. The ps3 can handle all audio formats, upto uncompressed 192khz 24bit 7.1 and even transform Dolby True HD to 1.5 mbps DTS optical output on the fly to work with my older amp. MS has some catching up to do, 360 can only handle 640kbps DD 5.1

It would be nice if we get some games with 96/192 khz surround sound with all this dedicated sound hardware.

In regards with your first statement - good luck with that.  My Sherwood receiver has lasted twice as long as my Sony one.  But my Sony speakers are still going strong.  I would agree with the 2nd part if it was completely accurate, but that is only true if go you 2 channel.  I like 5.1 or better - so they are both about the same.  (http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/audiooutput.html)

In response to your second statement.  Yes, I absolutely agree.  I would hope they both do 192 khz sound.

I remember the day I played a CD and an LP back to back.  Even I could hear that the LP sounded better, more 'alive' if you will.  It was a sad day where I felt betrayed by technology.  Those 'old guys with the golden ears' weren't making stuff up.  But I did notice a nice improvement with DVD over CD for sound quality.  Higher sampling rates are better.

I also think 60p is to slow.  If you want to start another thread and we can discuss 120P and 192 khz and how even mere mortal would probably enjoy it better.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

PS4 has a sound processor too.



Just leaving a comment so i can read it a bit latter. Should be an interesting read.



Nobody's perfect. I aint nobody!!!

Killzone 2. its not a fps. it a FIRST PERSON WAR SIMULATOR!!!! ..The true PLAYSTATION 3 launch date and market dominations is SEP 1st

Zappykins said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Zappykins said:
 

Well, to answer your first question - from the Sony PS4 reveal.  I did watch it and did pay attention.  What they announced that day is a decent chip, but still significantly smaller then what Microsoft is showing.

The secondary lower power mode is that is not the same thing as co-processors.  It's good that it can go to low power mode.  But they didn't want to get into the same problems as will the cell - i.e. cumbersome to program.  It was a concern of mine that Xbox has made the same mistake. It looks like Microsoft is keeping the co-processors and programing as part of their DirectX and OS systems, so the developers do not need to concern themselves with them.

I hope it's true the PS4 have an easy to program co-processors for sound and other things..  But why are there reports that they are asking people to use the GPU for sound processing? Plus, they don't have the same resources physically according to Sony's own statements.  There just isn't and much extra stuff on the chip.

Also, from the article you sent: "All the focus on general-purpose GPU computing suggests the console's CPU component is relatively weak, which isn't a big surprise."

Sony and Microsoft went about the next gen system in different ways.  Microsoft enhanced the CPU as part of their strategy.

Both Cpu are relatively weak. Even with MS upgrades. I paid attention at the reveal too, and I have no idea what you're talking about. It's right there in the article. The secondary chip will process sound and voice chat. 

Ok, good luck with that then.  Don't read the articles though, you might not be happy.

I think you need to go back and read and actually understand what they are talking about. Pay attention this time, during the press conference Cerney said nothing about sound processing. 

http://www.gamechup.com/mark-cerny-ps4-contains-a-dedicated-audio-processing-chip/

There’s dedicated audio hardware,” he revealed. “The principal thing that it does is that it compresses and decompresses audio streams, various formats. So some of that is for the games – you’ll have many, many audio streams in MP3 or another format and the hardware will take care of that for you.

“Or, on the system side for example, audio chat – the compression and decompression of that.”

He also added that the GPU can be useful to do different types of audio processing.

“It really does come down though to the amount of parallelisation that is natural to perform for that algorithm, and that does vary greatly depending on what you are doing specifically in your audio processing. I think that as you go forward we will see a hybrid approach in a couple of years where certain aspects of the audio are being done on GPU.

Earlier he revealed that PS4 GDDR5 RAM latency was not much of a factor since the GPU could handle it.

Again, it's right there in yet another article, He's saying the GPU can be useful in some types of audio processing like ray casting. Not that Devs  need to use the GPU for sound processing.

So before you respond with another "good luck with that" comment, you should provide a source, cause right now it seems you don't know what you're talking about.