The part I love is how God has a time for everyone... he cannot control free will, but if I walk up and shoot you in the head, you're going to die, by my free will. And God can't stop that bullet.

kergeten said: @fkusumot Damn! I want some fundamntalist christians in here to debate with! You're no fun lol.

Don't worry there are plenty of viewpoints to go around. I was only arguing because i don't believe above all else that there is anything that is truly evil or good. I actually do share with you and Final fan a sharp criticism of oranized religion but do think your viewpoint maybe a bit schewed by the way the world is today. I mean my favorite powem is Lycadis(a poem that expresses some of your concersn about religion) and one of my favorite books is the divine trilogy(IMO the first parody)

 

Last came, and last did go, The Pilot of the Galilean lake, Two massy Keyes he bore of metals twain, (The Golden opes, the Iron shuts amain) He shook his Miter'd locks, and stern bespake, How well could I have spar'd for thee young swain, Anow of such as for their bellies sake, Creep and intrude, and climb into the fold? Of other care they little reck'ning make, Then how to scramble at the shearers feast, And shove away the worthy bidden guest. Blind mouthes! that scarce themselves know how to hold A Sheep-hook, or have learn'd ought els the least That to the faithfull Herdmans art belongs! What recks it them? What need they? They are sped; And when they list, their lean and flashy songs Grate on their scrannel Pipes of wretched straw, The hungry Sheep look up, and are not fed, But swoln with wind, and the rank mist they draw, Rot inwardly, and foul contagion spread: Besides what the grim Woolf with privy paw Daily devours apace, and nothing sed, But that two-handed engine at the door, Stands ready to smite once, and smite no more

כָּל-צִפּוֹר טְהֹרָה, תֹּאכֵלוּ.

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0514.htm

CLEARLY using the hebrew for bird. (Remember to read right to left)

So by your own admission, this is wrong, and hence not by devine inspiration.

Don't worry, I think we all expect no reply...

CrashMan said: Edit: It CLEARLY states in the first passage that you can eat all things that crawl on 4 legs and meet that criteria, then name locusts, beetles, etc, which DO NOT have 4 legs.  I don't even see HOW you twisted that. the second is completely ludicrous, were that the case, why was it not translated "flying creatures" the third, why would the second make NO mention of hanging, seems obsurd here are some more gems. Your parents ever work on a sunday? Kill em. Your neighbor's kid mouthing off to his parents? drag him in to the town square and stone him Need some extra cash? Sell your daughter in to slavery All these great moral teachings and more from the bible.

You forgot to mention to sacrifice animals on sundays. To not eat pigs and if you divorce you must kill them. Also in the moses laws if you wanted forgiviness you had to go days fasting(with out eating). But it all changed when this dude came along.

 You ever heard of a dude name Jesus? Some guy who came a thousands years back who changed everything, from allowing divorce to 'oh no!!' working on sundays, to eating anything, to not sacraficing ect..  Go read the new testament before you read the old testament or quotes/arguments from websites.

Heres a bible verse to help you out. Acts:7-foward

"Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe. ⁸ God, who knows everyone's heart, showed them he approved by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us. ⁹ He made no distinction between them and us, because he cleansed their hearts by faith. ¹⁰ So why do you test God by putting on the disciples' neck a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we could carry? ¹¹ We certainly believe that it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ that we are saved, just as they are"

So all law prior to the new Testament should be thrown out? Gotcha, goodbye 10 commandments

*brushes hands* What else can we toss out here to make this book more convenient

Poeta said:   CrashMan said: " Hmmm the bat is a bird? DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat. DEU 14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, DEU 14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind, DEU 14:14 And every raven after his kind, DEU 14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, DEU 14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan, DEU 14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant, DEU 14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the " What if back then they didn't have a specific word or definition for a bird? See in old hebrew the world could have been "flying animal" and over many translations once it reached the english version they just put bird.  This happens all the time. Like the verse where its mention that jesus has brothers. But in the old hebrew brother and cousin is the same word. Many old languages didn't have a seperate word for differnet things. Like for english the word orange

Not to nitpick here but since I usually pick apart language I think it should be noted that Jesus did not speak old hebrew but mostly Aramaic and Koine Greek with very little hebrew and if they spoke it all it would sound more like the ebonics version. The original language of the new testement is debatable wether you believe it was the peshitta(aramaic and does not include the epistles of Paul) or the more popular belief that it was originially written in Koine. But yes you are right many words are mistranslated but it is very hard not for that ot happen being the first sentence in the bible alone can be translated 3100 different ways.

wow, the old testament is more violent than i knew!

more so than so many video games...

Man I forgot how childishly stubborn the bible thumpers are, even when presented with DIRECT proof, it gets draining.

I guess its easier to lie to yourself than to face reality. Reality is scary. Why else would humanity make up the idea of a fatherly figure looking over you.

mr-money said: Great analysis in the first post, but I'll make it a lot simpler.   Just look at how everything in your life happens for a reason. When you really start to look at yourself deeply, and you really start talking to God, things will start to happen, and you'll realise the truth.   Hardships will be seen from 2008-2012. Billions will die. But it's all for a purpose: to make us understand that we are incapable or ruling ourselves, and that we should put faith into God. There are a lot of common assholes who just disrespect God and all religious people like some kind of sport. These people will need to see the mayhem in front of their eyes and will need to see the reality of death in order for them to really understand. It's very easy to disregard God right now, so I don't even blame those nonbelievers, but believe me, you will get it soon.

 Wauw,if you want to prove God´s existence you're taking the wrong and most common way-almost like avery religion-trying to scare or menace the people about the  "bad things"that can happen to them for don't believe in God is actually one of the reasons of the people get away from religions,is not your God (a Christian God I suppose) a lovely,righteous one?then why he wants to humans that don't want to believe in him suffer the pain your bible predicts?then why he gives us the "free will",knowing that most of us are going to screw everything?then he is a guilty of our sins too because he give us the gun,we just shoot don't?

If all that menacing things that you say it's going to happen actually don't,you're a fool?God doesn't exist?Trying to prove God's existence is so hard as trying to denying him,but with all the contradictions of almost every single religion in the world,is harder... 

"

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0514.htm

CLEARLY using the hebrew for bird. (Remember to read right to left)

So by your own admission, this is wrong, and hence not by devine inspiration.

Don't worry, I think we all expect no reply..."

 

You do know thiers many differnet hebrews? Thiers Classical hebrew which i guess the old/new testament where written on and the new hebrew which is used today.

 When i was talking about the "bird" I was giving you an assumption of why they mention the bat as a bird. Heres another idea to it. What if back then anything that flew was considered a bird? What if back then they didn't classify animals by groups like we do today?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls Thats one of the oldest surviving bible we have today.

We woun't be able to read the actual words written in the original bible(But we pretty much have every important thing we need to know aka christ is God) .

But now is it that important that our new bible mentions a bat as a bird? The important information is here you don't need to know anything else. Geez....