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Forums - Microsoft - I dont think it's cut and dried that PS4 is more powerful than Xbox One

kitler53 said:

but they aren't bring their game to xbone so their opinion doesn't count...

If you expect that developers know how powerful a system really is or all that it is capable of just look at last gen (Gen7).  We constantly had developers, nearly every year saying thier game pushed the limits of what was possible.  Yet every year we had better and better looking games.

Anyone who expects a software developer to know hardware is fooling themselves.  A system engineer or systems integrator, maybe or a software developer with that experience, sure.  But that's not what you're getting.  You're getting people who read documentation sent to them or you're getting people who attend presentations.  They still don't know the hardware and all that it's capable of. 



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landguy1 said:
Wow, we are still debating this. I agree with the OP in that we will never really know until they both come out. And even then, it will depend heavily on how well the developers write the code as to performance.

I believe the key isn't the hardware but the developer.  The advantage that Sony has is not the hardware and it never was, its their top end AAA studios like ND, Santa Monica etc.  These studios have shown that they can access a lot of the power of Sony hardware no matter what it is and its their contributions and games to the Sony console which make getting the PS4 worth the money.  

The current specs between the PS4 and X1 really isn't going to separate them at all.  It will be the games that are coming out from the top studios between both companies that will make the difference and separate the consoles.  So right now, we do not see the proof of the PS4 perceived advantage over the X1 and I believe we will not see it until Sony AAA studios get something on the platform.  I also believe that MS top studios could also surprise everyone by matching the output. 

What I do know is that there are games I want on both, and I will get both because there will be exclusive to both consoles.  When the dust settle only fanboys will use specs and other crap as ammunition in debates while gamers will be playing and enjoying the games both system produce. 

 

Just for the record, I do believe that Sony has the more powerful console, I just do not care.  If I wanted the most power graphics producing device I would be playing on my PC and forget the consoles.  I will say this.  Because there are not enough games coming out from the PS4 or X1, I have thought about putting that money into upgrading my PC.



Graphics only matter if they are better on one system!



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JoeTheBro said:
Chrizum said:
If the PS4 is more powerful than the X1 just like the PS3 was more powerful than 360, it means absolutely nothing.


The PS3 has more theoretical performance than the 360, but to unlock it took loads of clever and time consuming programming. PS3>>360 for theoretical power but 360>PS3 for ease of development making the end result pretty much PS3=360.

This gen the theoretical difference is much greater. More like PS4>>>>>>XB1 and the PS4 also is easier to develop for. This gen is really different than the last but people keep shouting PS360 like that gen was the rule. Much better historical example is PS2 verse Xbox. Xbox was stronger, simpler to code for, and its games looked a lot better. OG Xbox=PS4, PS2=XBox One.

@ bolded: that is an empty statement, at this time it is impossible to measure this. It may very well be true in the end, but let's just wait and see what happens.



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Chrizum said:
JoeTheBro said:
Chrizum said:
If the PS4 is more powerful than the X1 just like the PS3 was more powerful than 360, it means absolutely nothing.


The PS3 has more theoretical performance than the 360, but to unlock it took loads of clever and time consuming programming. PS3>>360 for theoretical power but 360>PS3 for ease of development making the end result pretty much PS3=360.

This gen the theoretical difference is much greater. More like PS4>>>>>>XB1 and the PS4 also is easier to develop for. This gen is really different than the last but people keep shouting PS360 like that gen was the rule. Much better historical example is PS2 verse Xbox. Xbox was stronger, simpler to code for, and its games looked a lot better. OG Xbox=PS4, PS2=XBox One.

@ bolded: that is an empty statement, at this time it is impossible to measure this. It may very well be true in the end, but let's just wait and see what happens.

No, it's not an empty statement. The PS4's SDK is farther along than the Xbox's. Also the PS4 architecture itself is simpler to code for. Not saying the Xbox One is hard on devs just that the PS4 is even nicer.



JoeTheBro said:
Chrizum said:
JoeTheBro said:
Chrizum said:
If the PS4 is more powerful than the X1 just like the PS3 was more powerful than 360, it means absolutely nothing.


The PS3 has more theoretical performance than the 360, but to unlock it took loads of clever and time consuming programming. PS3>>360 for theoretical power but 360>PS3 for ease of development making the end result pretty much PS3=360.

This gen the theoretical difference is much greater. More like PS4>>>>>>XB1 and the PS4 also is easier to develop for. This gen is really different than the last but people keep shouting PS360 like that gen was the rule. Much better historical example is PS2 verse Xbox. Xbox was stronger, simpler to code for, and its games looked a lot better. OG Xbox=PS4, PS2=XBox One.

@ bolded: that is an empty statement, at this time it is impossible to measure this. It may very well be true in the end, but let's just wait and see what happens.

No, it's not an empty statement. The PS4's SDK is farther along than the Xbox's. Also the PS4 architecture itself is simpler to code for. Not saying the Xbox One is hard on devs just that the PS4 is even nicer.

It’s still conjecture because unless you coded for both you really do not know who's API is better.  We know that MS hardware is more convoluted but we do not know if this is something MS has handled within their API to smooth the transition.  The only thing we really know is that the PS4 is easier to develop for than the PS3.  Developers have stated its easier but I do not remember hearing any developer stating that its easier than developing for the X1. Actually I have not heard any comparisons along those lines.



Shinobi-san said:
Adding bandwidth numbers........

*sigh*


LOL, and doing it wrong too, 192+68=260, not 270    Unless those extra 10GB/s are given by the... 



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Machiavellian said:

It’s still conjecture because unless you coded for both you really do not know who's API is better.  We know that MS hardware is more convoluted but we do not know if this is something MS has handled within their API to smooth the transition.  The only thing we really know is that the PS4 is easier to develop for than the PS3.  Developers have stated its easier but I do not remember hearing any developer stating that its easier than developing for the X1. Actually I have not heard any comparisons along those lines.


When developers start programming to the metal (It's a matter of when not if.), it doesn't matter what API the consoles use, the Xbox One by default will be more difficult to program for due to the extra added layer of the eSRAM.

Granted that's only going to impact first party and possibly exclusive titles, those that use cross-platform game engines won't be building games from the metal, they assume that work has already been done (Via Epic, Crytek etc') from a development point of view.




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In terms of raw numbers it's more powerful, and several developers have stated that there is a gap. But many have also stated (quite logically) that the difference isn't as big as the net makes it out to be. Especially with early launch window titles that won't take full advantage of either platform anyway. Then there's the issue of multiplatform games having to work well on both consoles, and the push towards indie games--most of which aren't exactly gunning for Crysis or Metro level visuals. Thus the vast majority of both consoles' libraries will likely look and run the same anyway.

As excited as I am about the PS4, the whole GPU gap issue is the worst example of fanboy preening surrounding it. I want one myself and I'm getting sick of the constant circlejerks over minor tech minutiae.



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