The PS4 is stronger. End of story. The lack of proof is similar to the lack of proof that I have less money than bill gates.

Only thing we can debate and argue about is how much this extra power affects graphics.

Ryse is running on Cry-engine and they know how to make a game look good. As for the others, we don't know how they compare yet. There hasn't even been gameplay for Quantum Break.

Wow, we are still debating this. I agree with the OP in that we will never really know until they both come out. And even then, it will depend heavily on how well the developers write the code as to performance.

There is no doubting the PS4 is more powerful... the information about the specs for both machines is out there...developers have stated it's so also.

The question will be how the power is translated into actual gameplay differences. This at the moment we don't know. In fact 3rd parties have been very naughty on both PS4/XboxOne and showing games on top end PC's. So I think we wont really know for a bit. But FPS will probably be the first thing we notice.

Yes there has. Everything shown at E3 was gameplay enggine. And there was 3 seconds of controlled gaeplay confirmed by Remedy snuck into the video. Looks unbeliieveble for none of it being CGI.

In fact the boat crash scene is also inengne. During thoe scenes the player has full control to pause, slow down move camera round in realtime. Its all part of gameplay in this title. REmedy ha confirmed 100 times everyting shown is not CGI in anyway.

adding parrallel bandwiths doesn't make sense to you ?

*sigh*

First of all, I'm going to say that it really doesn't matter. They're going to be close enough that the difference is going to be minor. I don't think we'll see one pull ahead until late gen and even then it won't be drastic.

That being said, you seem to be taking things out of context in order to support your theories.

 “What we’re seeing with the consoles are actually that they are a little bit more powerful than we thought for a really long time – especially one of them, but I’m not going to tell you which one," Nilsson told VideoGamer.com at Gamescom earlier today.

Even if they are talking about the X1--and there is no concrete reason to reach that conclusion--it still doesn't mean that it would necessarily be more powerful than the PS4, just that their preconception was way off.  Making two assumptions and piling them on top of one another really doesn't mean very much.

Next, your assumption that the PS4 is struggling with Battlefield 4 not only ignores that we don't know how the X1 version is performing, but also that DICE themselves have said they haven't optimized resolution yet.  Rather than supporting your theory here, this comes across as a bit dishonest and actually hurts your credibilty more than it helps.

I don't know which is more powerful, and I don't really care, but I do care when someone is using misinformation.  Maybe that's not your intention but that's how it looks.

Heres a better question... Why do you care?

I also believe the PS4 has more raw power. Seems obvious considering how much GPUs matter on gaming consoles.

Although, how that advantage translates in the end is not as obvious. We also know

--------> the X1 with its' eSRAM is far more tweaked and that

--------> for the PS4, as Digital Foundry has noted, "based on the way that AMD graphics tech is being utilised right now in gaming, a law of diminishing returns kicks in".

I personnally expect to see the same difference between PS3 and X360 again this gen - meaning :

1) - the development environment compensates most of the raw power differential

2) - taking advantage of the PS4 will imply a higher development cost as illustrated by first party Sony Studios vs multiplats devs

3) - multiplatform developpers prefer equalized/ similar outputs to avoid angry fans and sunken costs

I think with current gen still being developed along side, it may be at least a year before we see any advantages of 3rd party games. Crikey working on 6 versions of the same game must be an absolute nightmare... It's going to take a bit to get their tools/software to take advantage of the PS4/XboxOne setups. 1st party will be where its at initially.