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Forums - Gaming Discussion - AMD: PS4 performance advantage over XB1 bigger than many expect thanks to hUMA

Weedlab on 21 August 2013
DirtyP2002 said:

Those $2 - $5 indie games will look OUTSTANDING on the PS4.

~

Edit: This user was moderated by TruckOSaurus for this post.


Way to go, bud.



 

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nightsurge on 21 August 2013

Misleading title. Only relates to 3D, not the overall consoles. 3D so far is terrible and won't be good for many years to decades (glasses free, no blur, no angle restrictions, etc.)



ShinmenTakezo on 21 August 2013
TheSting said:
The best looking game a system can throw at me can't even beat Ocarina of Time IMO. When did everyone become obsessed with how a game looks instead of how it plays? Isn't that backwards?


I see what you're saying, but I think graphics are important. My favorite game of all time is Xenogears. I really don't think any RPG can hold a candle to it. Yet I haven't played it in years. I played Dragon's Crown yesterday. Skyrim Last week. If PS4 doesn't have games that graphically blow all of those away, why buy it? Just for the new inputs on the controller? No thank you.



Adinnieken on 21 August 2013
ShinmenTakezo said:
Adinnieken said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
tres said:
and why again did microsoft go with amd? but for those that pretty much are ignoring what the o.p. said i will try to explain it. microsoft didnt need to go with huma to do tiled resources because it was made for tiled resources. it all has direct x11.2 to get it done.

http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/27/microsoft-debuts-new-tiled-resources-graphics-tech/

hUMA isn't about tiled resources.

MS' "tiled resources" tech is already being used. It isn't MS exclusive. All it does is keep the high quality of whatever the camera is pointing at. This isn't an advantage for the One.

hUMA is about the CPU and GPU using the same pool of memory and being able to read each others data without the data having to be copied back and forth between the CPU memory and GPU memory. Tiled resources is software that is being used now, but just might not be called tiled resources. They show the same tech in COD Ghosts, a multiplat game.

Sorry, it isn't.

Tiled Resources is a thing only two existing companies have worked on and have patents for, one of them is Microsoft.  None of them is AMD or NVidia.  The other is PowerVR owned by Imagination Technologies.  Neither AMD nor NVidia are licensees for PowerVR's patent technology.

You're mistaking Tiled Resources with Megatextures.  They are not the same.

Tiled Resources are akin to Paint-by-Number.  Where a letter represents a texture image used.  A tiled resource is made up of multiple small texture tile images, 32x32p, 64x64p, or whatever ratio the final image requires.  Tiled resources looks at the entire geometry of a scene and only applies a texture to the visible area.  Ultimately this requires fewer resources, making tiled resources both GPU and memory efficient.

Megatextures require a very large, final image to act as the texture.  Up to 128000x128000.  These textures are then overlaid, one on top of the other.  So as you move, the texture that offers the infocus terrain is more visible.  While this is less GPU intensive, it is heavily memory intensive.     

The Xbox One doesn't use hUMA because the Xbox One uses eSRAM.  The GPU and the CPU in the Xbox One, as in the Xbox 360, can access the same memory but the GPU also utilizes the eSRAM. 

You read my post? You are saying exactly what I said. Read the bolded. I said exactly what you said, but in laymans terms.

I never said tiled resources is being used by AMD or whoever else you assumed. I said similar tech is already being used. Like I said COD Ghosts uses a similar tech.

We don't know why MS doesn't use hUMA. Also, why are you telling me things that have nothing to do with what I have been saying? I know all about the One memory archetechture. It's still inferior to hUMA.

Tiled resources can be used on any platform. It isn't only possible on One. hUMA on the other hand is a hardware solution. What are you trying to argue?

No, sorry, it can't. 

As stated before, only two companies own the patent technology for tiled resources.  Microsoft and PowerVR.  While the Vita uses a GPU with PowerVR technology in it, neither Sony, AMD, nor NVidia are licensees of PowerVR's technology.

MegaTextures anyone can use.  MegaTextures do exactly what you say (bolded in the original comment).  While Tiled Resources offer similar features, the main difference is that tiles are laid onto only the visible geometry.  You don't waste resources on building non-visible geometry, nor do you waste resources on texturing geometry that you won't ever see.

With MegaTextures you may have a texture applied to a base geometry, a rolling plain for example, but the geometry of a rock, mound, hill, or mountain is built separately and on top of that.  With Tiled Resources, the entire geometry of the scene is calculated first, the areas that aren't visible aren't generated, only the visible geometry is generated and then tiled with the appropriate textures.

While you are correct, that Tile Resources isn't only available on the Xbox One, it is only available on Microsoft systems (Xbox 360 and Xbox One), or only on those systems that have licensed PowerVR technology used in their GPU (Sony PlayStation Vita).

In regards to hUMA I'm saying Microsoft's memory architecture is heterogeneous, with one slight difference.  The GPU also has memory that the CPU can't access.  There's no significant difference in this regards between hUMA and the Xbox One's memory architecture.  The CPU and the GPU on both systems can point to memory references that either one is using.  The only question is if the Xbox One's GPU can accept page faults or not.



Sh1nn on 21 August 2013
nightsurge said:
Misleading title. Only relates to 3D, not the overall consoles. 3D so far is terrible and won't be good for many years to decades (glasses free, no blur, no angle restrictions, etc.)


lol



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Euphoria14 on 21 August 2013
nightsurge said:
Misleading title. Only relates to 3D, not the overall consoles. 3D so far is terrible and won't be good for many years to decades (glasses free, no blur, no angle restrictions, etc.)

I am pretty sure this is about 3D graphics models, not 3D like you see in TV.



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SxyxS on 21 August 2013
maximrace said:
Lol msft supported Amd for so long and now they fuck with them


Gamers supported msft for so long and msft tried to fuck with them.

poetical justice or bitter irony?

or simple the fact that ms is focusing a lot on windows for the box and less on games and need chips with other qualities



Captain_Tom on 21 August 2013
theprof00 said:
why would amd say this? margins are better on ps4?

Because it's the truth.  People don't just say things.  Sometimes they say it like it is...



TheSting on 21 August 2013
ShinmenTakezo said:
TheSting said:
The best looking game a system can throw at me can't even beat Ocarina of Time IMO. When did everyone become obsessed with how a game looks instead of how it plays? Isn't that backwards?


I see what you're saying, but I think graphics are important. My favorite game of all time is Xenogears. I really don't think any RPG can hold a candle to it. Yet I haven't played it in years. I played Dragon's Crown yesterday. Skyrim Last week. If PS4 doesn't have games that graphically blow all of those away, why buy it? Just for the new inputs on the controller? No thank you.


We're supposed to be having fun not counting pixels. The graphics should be bonus but people put the cart before the horse. I'd rather be amazed at the gameplay and story rather than graphics. 

I'm the kind of guy who looks for a great story. I got suckered into watching Transformers at the theater twice. It's my own fault lol.



ShinmenTakezo on 21 August 2013
Adinnieken said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
Adinnieken said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
tres said:
and why again did microsoft go with amd? but for those that pretty much are ignoring what the o.p. said i will try to explain it. microsoft didnt need to go with huma to do tiled resources because it was made for tiled resources. it all has direct x11.2 to get it done.

http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/27/microsoft-debuts-new-tiled-resources-graphics-tech/

hUMA isn't about tiled resources.

MS' "tiled resources" tech is already being used. It isn't MS exclusive. All it does is keep the high quality of whatever the camera is pointing at. This isn't an advantage for the One.

hUMA is about the CPU and GPU using the same pool of memory and being able to read each others data without the data having to be copied back and forth between the CPU memory and GPU memory. Tiled resources is software that is being used now, but just might not be called tiled resources. They show the same tech in COD Ghosts, a multiplat game.

Sorry, it isn't.

Tiled Resources is a thing only two existing companies have worked on and have patents for, one of them is Microsoft.  None of them is AMD or NVidia.  The other is PowerVR owned by Imagination Technologies.  Neither AMD nor NVidia are licensees for PowerVR's patent technology.

You're mistaking Tiled Resources with Megatextures.  They are not the same.

Tiled Resources are akin to Paint-by-Number.  Where a letter represents a texture image used.  A tiled resource is made up of multiple small texture tile images, 32x32p, 64x64p, or whatever ratio the final image requires.  Tiled resources looks at the entire geometry of a scene and only applies a texture to the visible area.  Ultimately this requires fewer resources, making tiled resources both GPU and memory efficient.

Megatextures require a very large, final image to act as the texture.  Up to 128000x128000.  These textures are then overlaid, one on top of the other.  So as you move, the texture that offers the infocus terrain is more visible.  While this is less GPU intensive, it is heavily memory intensive.     

The Xbox One doesn't use hUMA because the Xbox One uses eSRAM.  The GPU and the CPU in the Xbox One, as in the Xbox 360, can access the same memory but the GPU also utilizes the eSRAM. 

You read my post? You are saying exactly what I said. Read the bolded. I said exactly what you said, but in laymans terms.

I never said tiled resources is being used by AMD or whoever else you assumed. I said similar tech is already being used. Like I said COD Ghosts uses a similar tech.

We don't know why MS doesn't use hUMA. Also, why are you telling me things that have nothing to do with what I have been saying? I know all about the One memory archetechture. It's still inferior to hUMA.

Tiled resources can be used on any platform. It isn't only possible on One. hUMA on the other hand is a hardware solution. What are you trying to argue?

No, sorry, it can't. 

As stated before, only two companies own the patent technology for tiled resources.  Microsoft and PowerVR.  While the Vita uses a GPU with PowerVR technology in it, neither Sony, AMD, nor NVidia are licensees of PowerVR's technology.

MegaTextures anyone can use.  MegaTextures do exactly what you say (bolded in the original comment).  While Tiled Resources offer similar features, the main difference is that tiles are laid onto only the visible geometry.  You don't waste resources on building non-visible geometry, nor do you waste resources on texturing geometry that you won't ever see.

With MegaTextures you may have a texture applied to a base geometry, a rolling plain for example, but the geometry of a rock, mound, hill, or mountain is built separately and on top of that.  With Tiled Resources, the entire geometry of the scene is calculated first, the areas that aren't visible aren't generated, only the visible geometry is generated and then tiled with the appropriate textures.

While you are correct, that Tile Resources isn't only available on the Xbox One, it is only available on Microsoft systems (Xbox 360 and Xbox One), or only on those systems that have licensed PowerVR technology used in their GPU (Sony PlayStation Vita).

In regards to hUMA I'm saying Microsoft's memory architecture is heterogeneous, with one slight difference.  The GPU also has memory that the CPU can't access.  There's no significant difference in this regards between hUMA and the Xbox One's memory architecture.  The CPU and the GPU on both systems can point to memory references that either one is using.  The only question is if the Xbox One's GPU can accept page faults or not.

@bolded: You have no clue what you are talking about. The One CPU has a seperate memory allocation in its shared memory pool that the GPU can't access. The GPU has memory allocated in the shared pool that the CPU can't access. Therefore CPU data must be copied to the GPU memory allocation in order for the GPU to process this data. You are completely off and should do some research. You are basically saying AMD is lying about its own products.

@bolded italics: SAME FRIGGIN THING!