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Forums - Gaming Discussion - AMD: PS4 performance advantage over XB1 bigger than many expect thanks to hUMA

ShinmenTakezo on 22 August 2013
nightsurge said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
Adinnieken said:
ShinmenTakezo said:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php

This article is from April. Me, and many others on here it seems listened to Mark Cerny when he spoke. He addresses using edram would have been a complication and a UNIFIED MEMORY SYSTEM is better. That statement he makes tells you that you cannot have hUMA with an edram chip on die. Then there is the fact that AMD confirms this. Then you do a little research on what hUMA is and what it means. Finally you mix in a little logic, and wa-la.

Your tons of evidence comes soley from MS and one "retracted" statement from AMD. Do some research and stop repeating things MS talking heads have been saying. These guys have been lying through their teeth since the reveal, yet you take their word like it's the gospel.

He said it was a complication, not impossible.  A complication means there is a hill to climb, not an impassible wall.

If you look at the memory diagram that I posted, you could have the DDR memory operating under hUMA and not include the ESRAM.  This would mean the GPU would need to copy any data to the ESRAM or back to the DDR RAM.  Not a big deal, because the ESRAM is reserved for the GPU anyway.  The DDR memory would be unified and accessible to both the CPU and GPU.  Or you could have the hUMA operating on the DDR memory and the ESRAM as two separate memory sets.  The CPU and GPU would still need to copy memory to the ESRAM but the they would be able to access both the ESRAM and the DDR memory and address the same memory space.  The only difference is that the ESRAM would be reserved for graphics only. 

And again.  Microsoft's developer documentation and during the Architectural Panel held during the reveal, Microsoft has said they're using coherent (heterogeneous) memory.  This was confirmed by VGLeaks, this was also confirmed today by XboxOneDev on Reddit (who has been confirmed previously as an Xbox One Developer by the moderators) and lastly it was confirmed by Microsoft back in May during the Architectural Panel by the Distinguished Engineer Console Architect Nick Baker. 

"We have to invest a lot in coherency throughout the chip.  So there's been I/O coherency for a while but we really wanted to get the software out of the mode of managing the caches and put in hardware coherency for the first time on a mass scale in the living room on the GPU."

http://youtu.be/tLBVHZokt1Q?t=22m (Note this is set to the specific time frame that the quote is from.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cache_coherence

And because you don't believe me, here is ARS Technica's article on it:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/05/microsoft-talks-about-xbox-ones-internals-while-disclosing-nothing/ 

At the end of the day, which this definitely is, the bottom line is that the PS4 is where it was yesterday.  It features hUMA.  The Xbox One also features it, however to what extent, we don't know.  But it is there.  At the end of the day you are wrong on whether or not the Xbox One features heterogeneous unified memory architecture.  It does. 

He didn't say it was a complication, he said it would make development more complicated then said that is why we went with a unified system architecture. That means the two are seperate.

Again you are quoting MS talking heads instead of doing research. Of course MS is going to say we have that too. They obviously have no qualms blatantly lying to the public.

The One doesn't and can't have hUMA. Sorry to burstyour bubble.

I seriously wish there were more tech heads on here to let these people know whats up. I'm not a tech head, but I at least do reasearch so I'm not pulling shit out of my ass or repeating corporate lies.

You are just so completely wrong... You will never learn. And for all your fake "research" you keep claiming to do, you will never accept the countless data we show you that completely refutes your "I do my own magical fake make believe unicorn research and it says PS4 is dah betterz! YAR!"...

Seriously, you need to give this a rest.

You refer to tech heads, I am one of those. I am not as advanced as someone on here that claimed to be a silicon engineer or whatnot, but I do have my bachelor's in computer science which required many courses on hardware architecture and obviously a ton of programming classes from Java to C++ to Assembly. I have built OS's and emulators of microprocessors....


Sorry you're wrong. Everything, every single link you posted is completely unreliable on its own. You post two links from MS employees and a page from Wikepedia that does absolutely nothing to further your cause. Like I said all you are doing is repeating talking heads. You don't seem to even understand what that that wiki article debunks your argument.....if you did some research on the memory in the One. Some of it is I/O coherent according to MS themselves.

If you would do some research, like I have done, then you understand the difference between the two sytems. I shouldn't have to hold your hand and post links and tell you where to go. You should find stuff out for yourself. That also means you can't take one source at face value. You have to check it against other sources. You are using MS as your only source.

I also really don't understand why you believe so whole-heartedly in the word of a company that has been blatantly lying about the One since it's reveal.



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walsufnir on 23 August 2013
deskpro2k3 said:

 

seems like an appropriate place to put this. feel free to use this wherever you guys want lol

 

Oh, you think it's that close?! Others think it's a way bigger gap!



nightsurge on 23 August 2013
ShinmenTakezo said:
nightsurge said:

You are just so completely wrong... You will never learn. And for all your fake "research" you keep claiming to do, you will never accept the countless data we show you that completely refutes your "I do my own magical fake make believe unicorn research and it says PS4 is dah betterz! YAR!"...

Seriously, you need to give this a rest.

You refer to tech heads, I am one of those. I am not as advanced as someone on here that claimed to be a silicon engineer or whatnot, but I do have my bachelor's in computer science which required many courses on hardware architecture and obviously a ton of programming classes from Java to C++ to Assembly. I have built OS's and emulators of microprocessors....


Sorry you're wrong. Everything, every single link you posted is completely unreliable on its own. You post two links from MS employees and a page from Wikepedia that does absolutely nothing to further your cause. Like I said all you are doing is repeating talking heads. You don't seem to even understand what that that wiki article debunks your argument.....if you did some research on the memory in the One. Some of it is I/O coherent according to MS themselves.

If you would do some research, like I have done, then you understand the difference between the two sytems. I shouldn't have to hold your hand and post links and tell you where to go. You should find stuff out for yourself. That also means you can't take one source at face value. You have to check it against other sources. You are using MS as your only source.

I also really don't understand why you believe so whole-heartedly in the word of a company that has been blatantly lying about the One since it's reveal.

I just can't believe how ignorant you are. I swear it is like arguing with children on these forums lately. Everyone thinks they are right even when presented evidence to the contrary.

 

Must be nice to keep claiming your fake-believe research with no sources, yet you keep discrediting other sources just because they are Microsoft. Even though the only source you have actually mentioned is Sony....

 

This really is laughable. Such blind faith you have...



ShinmenTakezo on 23 August 2013
nightsurge said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
nightsurge said:

You are just so completely wrong... You will never learn. And for all your fake "research" you keep claiming to do, you will never accept the countless data we show you that completely refutes your "I do my own magical fake make believe unicorn research and it says PS4 is dah betterz! YAR!"...

Seriously, you need to give this a rest.

You refer to tech heads, I am one of those. I am not as advanced as someone on here that claimed to be a silicon engineer or whatnot, but I do have my bachelor's in computer science which required many courses on hardware architecture and obviously a ton of programming classes from Java to C++ to Assembly. I have built OS's and emulators of microprocessors....


Sorry you're wrong. Everything, every single link you posted is completely unreliable on its own. You post two links from MS employees and a page from Wikepedia that does absolutely nothing to further your cause. Like I said all you are doing is repeating talking heads. You don't seem to even understand what that that wiki article debunks your argument.....if you did some research on the memory in the One. Some of it is I/O coherent according to MS themselves.

If you would do some research, like I have done, then you understand the difference between the two sytems. I shouldn't have to hold your hand and post links and tell you where to go. You should find stuff out for yourself. That also means you can't take one source at face value. You have to check it against other sources. You are using MS as your only source.

I also really don't understand why you believe so whole-heartedly in the word of a company that has been blatantly lying about the One since it's reveal.

I just can't believe how ignorant you are. I swear it is like arguing with children on these forums lately. Everyone thinks they are right even when presented evidence to the contrary.

 

Must be nice to keep claiming your fake-believe research with no sources, yet you keep discrediting other sources just because they are Microsoft. Even though the only source you have actually mentioned is Sony....

 

This really is laughable. Such blind faith you have...


Yes, I do because MS has been lying about this stuff since day one. You chose to believe them ignoring the fact that they have been lying to you. You don't have to believe I did research, but you can't challenge any of the technical things I mention on your own. You continue to restate MS talking points instead. What you are doing is called blind faith.

I mentioned Sony as a source to describe the proccess I go through to come up with the conclusions I do. I said I listened to Cerny and what he was talking about. I then did research on what he was talking about and found him to be correct. You don't have to believe me and I really don't care. You continue to show that you really don't know what you're talking about and just keep repeating what you hear MS employees say.



nightsurge on 23 August 2013

Ok then. I did research and found MS to be correct.

There, you happy? You have no evidence to support your claims. The only thing that would prove your "research" correct would be If you had first hand access to the hardware yourself, which you haven't.

So please stop this bs. You are wrong. Deal with it.



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ShinmenTakezo on 23 August 2013
nightsurge said:
Ok then. I did research and found MS to be correct.

There, you happy? You have no evidence to support your claims. The only thing that would prove your "research" correct would be If you had first hand access to the hardware yourself, which you haven't.

So please stop this bs. You are wrong. Deal with it.

At least you admit that no matter what I say you will never believe. I know you did zero research, but lets say you did. What did that research tell you about what the cloud can do in reality and what it really is? What did it tell you about current apu archetecture compared to apu's with hUMA? What about the difference between I/O coherency and chache coherency?



ShinmenTakezo on 23 August 2013
nightsurge said:
Ok then. I did research and found MS to be correct.

There, you happy? You have no evidence to support your claims. The only thing that would prove your "research" correct would be If you had first hand access to the hardware yourself, which you haven't.

So please stop this bs. You are wrong. Deal with it.


I'm going to throw you a bone here. Check this out.

http://www.respawn.com/news/lets-talk-about-the-xbox-live-cloud/

They admit that MS's cloud talk is bullshit. They basically admit that MS money hatted them to get exclusivity. MS's cloud doesn't do anything any other dedicated servers can't do.



nightsurge on 23 August 2013
ShinmenTakezo said:
nightsurge said:
Ok then. I did research and found MS to be correct.

There, you happy? You have no evidence to support your claims. The only thing that would prove your "research" correct would be If you had first hand access to the hardware yourself, which you haven't.

So please stop this bs. You are wrong. Deal with it.


I'm going to throw you a bone here. Check this out.

http://www.respawn.com/news/lets-talk-about-the-xbox-live-cloud/

They admit that MS's cloud talk is bullshit. They basically admit that MS money hatted them to get exclusivity. MS's cloud doesn't do anything any other dedicated servers can't do.

More ignorance I see...

You are making more assumptions out of nothing. And to be honest, I don't need to do research because my career already involves the kind of knowledge you are asking for.

Respawn isn't talking about MS cloud powered games, just the dedicated server aspect of it.

If you don't stop spreading fud and misinformation I will report you. It is against the rules.



Somini on 23 August 2013
nightsurge said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
nightsurge said:
Ok then. I did research and found MS to be correct.

There, you happy? You have no evidence to support your claims. The only thing that would prove your "research" correct would be If you had first hand access to the hardware yourself, which you haven't.

So please stop this bs. You are wrong. Deal with it.


I'm going to throw you a bone here. Check this out.

http://www.respawn.com/news/lets-talk-about-the-xbox-live-cloud/

They admit that MS's cloud talk is bullshit. They basically admit that MS money hatted them to get exclusivity. MS's cloud doesn't do anything any other dedicated servers can't do.

More ignorance I see...

You are making more assumptions out of nothing. And to be honest, I don't need to do research because my career already involves the kind of knowledge you are asking for.

Respawn isn't talking about MS cloud powered games, just the dedicated server aspect of it.

If you don't stop spreading fud and misinformation I will report you. It is against the rules.


Stop calling him names in every post you make, if you felt your argument was sound enough you wouldn't have urge to do that.

As for having access first hand, AMD does and they said this themselves. That they retracted their comment does not mean it's true, it means their partner didn't like it being in the open. You can't be THAT unknowning of how corporations do this kinda thing!



ShinmenTakezo on 23 August 2013
nightsurge said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
nightsurge said:
Ok then. I did research and found MS to be correct.

There, you happy? You have no evidence to support your claims. The only thing that would prove your "research" correct would be If you had first hand access to the hardware yourself, which you haven't.

So please stop this bs. You are wrong. Deal with it.


I'm going to throw you a bone here. Check this out.

http://www.respawn.com/news/lets-talk-about-the-xbox-live-cloud/

They admit that MS's cloud talk is bullshit. They basically admit that MS money hatted them to get exclusivity. MS's cloud doesn't do anything any other dedicated servers can't do.

More ignorance I see...

You are making more assumptions out of nothing. And to be honest, I don't need to do research because my career already involves the kind of knowledge you are asking for.

Respawn isn't talking about MS cloud powered games, just the dedicated server aspect of it.

If you don't stop spreading fud and misinformation I will report you. It is against the rules.

You're calling respawn ignorant?

Why do you keep insisting you have knowledge in this field and yet show absolutely know proof of technical knowledge? All you do is repeat MS talking point word for word. You exibit no personal knowledge of how dedicated servers work or PC hardware.

@bolded If your career at all involved these things we are discussing, doing research on them would be vital to your job. Something smells fishy here.

Me spreading fud and misinfo.........LOL. That's a good one. I haven't cried in years, thanks. Oh the irony! Please report me, it will amount to absolutely nothing.