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Forums - General - God doesn't prevent terrible things because?

 

Please choose wisely....

A. He can't 24 6.96%
 
B. He doesn't want to 86 24.93%
 
C. He causes them 22 6.38%
 
D. He doesn't exist. 213 61.74%
 
Total:345
secpierre34 said:
Accela said:
secpierre34 said:
Accela said:
secpierre34 said:
DJEVOLVE said:

Please explain your vote.

The bible response is that he can't because of free will. If you choose to do it he can't stop you.

To have free will you need option, you can never be good without choosing not to be bad. Ying and Yeng, one can't exist without the other. But the choice is yours

So what about the people who are raped/murdered/tortured against their will? Apparently god cares more about the free will of the bad guys than that of the victims. If god is omnipotent, he could have made the universe without a necessity of evil.  
Also, natural disasters, disease, plagues, and famine have nothing to do with humanity's choices in being good or bad.

The point is that without these things we wouldn't be humans. IF everything at been well from the beginning you would not know it is. I would prefer that we as human fix ourselves rather than waiting for someone or something to do it. That is the point of christianity really, to become a better self and to give others the help to achieve it. Lunatics often misconstrue the bible in the wrong way, thus we have idiots like Michelle Bachman, but the smarter 2 billion know better. You would not wish for good if you did not know what bad is, and perhaps we need bad to enjoy the good in life.

Imagine if there was no evil. There could still be good, better, and best. Is it really neccessary that humanity suffers to this extent?
The way god has it, the bad people are punished for eternity while the victims' lives are ruined. It may make our lives look better when compared to theirs, but those negative experiences are not helpful to those who are involved.
If good cannot exist without evil as you say, then how does eternal bliss exist in heaven?

Because you already know what evil is then you can know good. And by the way that is not just a bible/christian thing. it is a psych thing. You can't know how bad or how good you have it without perspective. Perspective is expanded by option and choice. If you only knew good, then it would not even make sense to you what good is. How can you define a good action without knowing what is not a good action. My point is that in a world without evil and purely good, you would not know that it is good because you never understood that it could be bad. It's like living in a forest for your entire life without knowing about toilets and paper towels. Would that person think he is dirty without wiping since he doesn't even know what wiping is?

It is also the same  thing as being raised in a purely evil place  SInce you never knew what is good, evill is as good as it gets for you.

I dont believe in evil, but saying you need evil to understand good is lame. There is absolutely no need to know about evil to know about "good"...there are enough natural events like diseases, hurricanes, earthquakes, accidents, fires, etc. that kill and hurt people to know about the opposite of that crap. Evil is completely unnesscary...and does not ensure we know about good. 



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Because God doesn't rule Earth... he rules Heaven. Satan is called "The Prince of the air" for a reason. He rules over Earth from what I understand. God is in Heaven and Satan is here... where hell will be.



Do you guys see the similarities between Santa Claus and god?



butcherknife said:
secpierre34 said:
Accela said:
secpierre34 said:
Accela said:
secpierre34 said:
DJEVOLVE said:

I dont believe in evil, but saying you need evil to understand good is lame. There is absolutely no need to know about evil to know about "good"...there are enough natural events like diseases, hurricanes, earthquakes, accidents, fires, etc. that kill and hurt people to know about the opposite of that crap. Evil is completely unnesscary...and does not ensure we know about good. 

I guess that depends on what you think evil is. Natural events that results in pain is evil to me. Without them you cant know what a good life is



ListerOfSmeg said:
If you never know pain, you cannot appreciate happiness. It really is that simple.
Also if God stopped a person from robbing a bank, how could he then punish that person for something they never did?
Many scientist now admit that there must be a God or grand creator.
The Bible seemed to do a pretty good job of describing how we now know the universe formed though in simple terms for simple minded people.
Also blaming a natural disaster on our creator is silly. He didn't make you move next to a volcano or into Tornado alley.
When I lost my daughter did I blame God or the incompetent Doctor who let it happen? I chose to blame the Doctor instead of the being that made it possible for me to be here and to have a chance to have a child.
It is amusing though to see post from people who fail to comprehend even the basics but act like they know everything there is to know when it comes to religion.
Also amusing when people act like Christianity is the only option even though there are many other options. Which I also think our creator understood us enough to know that we as humans wouldn't accept 1 option let alone 2 so he gave us many and that is why most religions at their core all teach the same thing.

You might want to go look up some writings by Chesteron.  He ended up trying to look at crtitics of Christianity.  He said he got confused, because a handful would be critical of it for one reason, and another handful would be critical of it for exactly opposite reasons.  In trying to find answers, and not just rebel as its own ends, he ended up becoming a strong convert to Christianity.

A lot of issues involved with the evil side of things is that people get upset at context that defines things.  Should we have a world, for example, where knives don't cut?  But put the knife in another context cutting and it can do harm.  Same with the said robbing of a bank.  So, is God supposed to then stop people leaving banks with money?  But it is a robbery.  So I guess maybe God is supposed to engineer matter to tell the difference and act accordingly, or going into every single situation where it happens and stops it.



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DeadNotSleeping said:
AstroGamer said:
Asking why God doesn't prevent terrible things is a tad stupid, I feel. I feel the world is hardly a terrible place. The terrible things that happen are so small in comparison to what could happen. For example say there were no more earthquakes, probably the tectonic plates wouldn't be moving. Why do they move? because of the shifting mantle beneath the crust. I'm not even sure what could happen if the mantle doesn't move because that's defying physics or something like the Earth stopped spinning caused that and you can imagine what that would mean. That's barely a fraction of what could happen and within the constraints of logic. There are infinite possibilities to the illogical tragedies that could occur. God also probably had to give foundation to a system of nature so we could understand the world and logic would be legitimate thing. Death also gives value to life


Good point.  A world without natural disasters would require a capricious system of physics that may simply be conceptually impossible, and the current scientific model might actually be the most stable option for supporting life.  It is rather disappointing how deliberately manipulative the poll is.

There are many tragedies that occur that are not the result of required geographic factors required to sustain as world where people can survive. Also if a god existed then not only does he fail to prevent tragedies but has designed us in a way there our food and air go down the same tube allowing for us to easily choke by accident, which by itself (which it is not) is enough for me to balk at the concept of intelligent design.

As yes it could be worse but surely given infinite power one would want to provide people with the best world where certain people based on the physioilogy or geographic location would not suffer hardships so unfairly, Just because the world does not seem terrible to you does not mean others dont have terrible lives through no fault of their own and receive no help from an absentee god.

Adnd the idea that you cant appreciate happiness without experiencing pain is simply a false assumption that people make, which applies doubly to the people who die from their pain and will never again experinece happiness again to appreciate.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

-CraZed- said:
dsgrue3 said:

You seem overtly upset by a simple question. Really speaks volumes to the frailty of your nonsensical belief system.

If god is ominpotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent there should exist nothing terrible as all terrible things are preventable to such an entity, and as this entity supposedly loves all it would not be possible to simply allow them to occur as that would contradict that quality.

When dissecting nonsense one only concludes nonsense. Garbage in, garbage out.

I am no more upset than you are. You'll notice I explicitly stated: "I am not advocating that the other answers be eliminated..." So what it speaks volumes about is that I think a bit of balance would better serve the topic at hand and to your inability to read.

I get you think belief in a God is nonsense. Which to me seems very narrow (given there is no proof as such) and your constant attacks and denigration towards people who do believe is really proof of your own frailty and fear. Who takes every opportunity to trash another person's beliefs (which you seem to do a lot when these type of topics surface) other than a bully, and bullies typically lack self-esteem and any sense of real self-worth.

That said, maybe you are highly confident and know everything.... either way you show your inability to consider a view point other than your own concrete beliefs. And please don't tell me your thought process is rooted in science, because even in science we NEVER claim to really know anything we choose to either accept or reject the results. If you like to debate on how often scientific beliefs have had to change throughout the centuries I'd be happy to oblige.

Lastly, - Garbage in, garbage out. I am certainly not a computer and I assume, neither are you. I know I question my environment and my beliefs all the time. The question is do you?

You did not respond to the content of my post. Perhaps it's you who can't read? I've bolded it for you in the quotation above so you can try again, okay?

*Sigh*

It's not my onus to disprove a god, it's on the claim maker to prove their case. Anything claimed without evidence can be rejected without evidence. I'm not making the claim that there is no god, I'm simply maintaining the default position that there exists no sufficient evidence for the claim that one exists. I assume you don't maintain the position that leprechauns, invisible pink unicorns, fairies, or santa claus exist?

The issue isn't considering the viewpoint, it's that the viewpoint has no evidence at all. I consider it every day and every day I see no one has provided any additional arguments. That leads to two conclusions - they are incapable of forming an argument OR there isn't one. In either case, the claim remains unproven and completely without merit.

Do you believe in ghosts or healing crystals? Or astrology? These are no better than religion, but they have less influence.

Are you capable of responding to the argument in my post instead of launching character insults or are you too upset by the realization that your delicate belief system is indefensible from the standpoint of logic and reason?



Accela said:
DeadNotSleeping said:
AstroGamer said:
Asking why God doesn't prevent terrible things is a tad stupid, I feel. I feel the world is hardly a terrible place. The terrible things that happen are so small in comparison to what could happen. For example say there were no more earthquakes, probably the tectonic plates wouldn't be moving. Why do they move? because of the shifting mantle beneath the crust. I'm not even sure what could happen if the mantle doesn't move because that's defying physics or something like the Earth stopped spinning caused that and you can imagine what that would mean. That's barely a fraction of what could happen and within the constraints of logic. There are infinite possibilities to the illogical tragedies that could occur. God also probably had to give foundation to a system of nature so we could understand the world and logic would be legitimate thing. Death also gives value to life


Good point.  A world without natural disasters would require a capricious system of physics that may simply be conceptually impossible, and the current scientific model might actually be the most stable option for supporting life.  It is rather disappointing how deliberately manipulative the poll is.

If god is restricted by laws and physics, then he is not omnipotent. 

1. This poll does not call into question the nature of omnipotence.

2. Never said it was a restriction.



SlayerRondo said:
DeadNotSleeping said:
AstroGamer said:
Asking why God doesn't prevent terrible things is a tad stupid, I feel. I feel the world is hardly a terrible place. The terrible things that happen are so small in comparison to what could happen. For example say there were no more earthquakes, probably the tectonic plates wouldn't be moving. Why do they move? because of the shifting mantle beneath the crust. I'm not even sure what could happen if the mantle doesn't move because that's defying physics or something like the Earth stopped spinning caused that and you can imagine what that would mean. That's barely a fraction of what could happen and within the constraints of logic. There are infinite possibilities to the illogical tragedies that could occur. God also probably had to give foundation to a system of nature so we could understand the world and logic would be legitimate thing. Death also gives value to life


Good point.  A world without natural disasters would require a capricious system of physics that may simply be conceptually impossible, and the current scientific model might actually be the most stable option for supporting life.  It is rather disappointing how deliberately manipulative the poll is.

There are many tragedies that occur that are not the result of required geographic factors required to sustain as world where people can survive. Also if a god existed then not only does he fail to prevent tragedies but has designed us in a way there our food and air go down the same tube allowing for us to easily choke by accident, which by itself (which it is not) is enough for me to balk at the concept of intelligent design.

As yes it could be worse but surely given infinite power one would want to provide people with the best world where certain people based on the physioilogy or geographic location would not suffer hardships so unfairly, Just because the world does not seem terrible to you does not mean others dont have terrible lives through no fault of their own and receive no help from an absentee god.

Adnd the idea that you cant appreciate happiness without experiencing pain is simply a false assumption that people make, which applies doubly to the people who die from their pain and will never again experinece happiness again to appreciate.

Para 1: Line 1: Many tragedies and no examples, not that they would even be relevant to my comment.

Para 1: Line 2: I'm sure you'd find flaws in an organic structure with a separate orifice for eating and breathing.  Mortality is full of inherent flaws but the efficient function of organic systems speaks of a universe not badly designed. 

Para 2: Line 1: geographical issues are self-inflicted wounds upon human history.  Humans have created that situation themselves over generations and the solution to said problems is within the capacity of modern civilxation to quickly correct.  While these lives may seem "terrible", you cannot know how much assistance those people are receiving through divine means.  Religious organizations, after all, have long been the most proactive groups in providing aid for those people.  

Para 3: Line 1: I have not committed to that logical fallicy, though if there is indeed a life after this one, those who have died from their pain may be experiencing a realm far better than you can possibly conceive.  They may "never again experience happiness" in our world, but to assume the impossiblity of experiencing happiness in another based on that alone is logically fallacious in of itself.



Talal said:
Do you guys see the similarities between Santa Claus and god?

I am more likely to see differences.  With Santa, there isn't a contigent of people who go on forums after not believing and post messages to deconvert people froma  belief in Santa.