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Forums - Gaming Discussion - UNITY - Nintendo & Wii U Finish The REVOLUTION

Anfebious said:
Fusioncode said:
Seece said:
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=175861&page=1

Wow, this thread is really damning for Nintendo. Shows they launched too early.

It also disproves Lucas' ridiculous idea of politics being the main reason 3rd parties don't support Nintendo. The WiiU is too close to current gen consoles to get ports from the next gen machines, the sales figures aren't worth developing exclusive titles, and the developer even felt ignored by Nintendo. They dug their own grave when it comes to 3rd party support. Hopefully Lucas will stop blaming everyone else for the WiiU's difficulties and realize that it was Nintendo's own fault. 

I agree that John Lucas was too extreme with the things he said. But...

It's also true that the PS3 had almost the same issue. The PS3 didn't catter to third parties. It was harder to develop for and lost a lot of time exclusives to the Xbox 360 in the 7th generation. But... even with that difficulty third parties didn't hesitate to develop for it. Sure, ports of PS3 multiplaform games where crappy but that didn't stop them from releasing them.

In the Wii U's case I doubt it's as hard as the PS3 was to develop for. There is no excuse not to release ports for the Wii U. The PS3 wasn't doing as bad as the Wii U but it wasn't doing too hot either and it still got third prty games.

I do agree that it was dumb to release the console so hastily. But maybe this article can help understand why they did it: http://www.dromble.com/2014/01/07/dolphin-tale-story-of-gamecube/

Yeah I know it's absurdly long. But in one of the paragraphs it talks about how Nintendo wanted to release the N64 and GC before the Playstation 1 and 2 and failed to do so both times. Maybe they wanted to have the headstart this time. Either way it seems that the strategy of releasing the Wii U first didn't pay off.

A lot of developers did avoid the PS3 at first. Gabe Newell refused to develop for it, Activision threatened to pull support entirely, and the 360 got a ton of timed exclusives in it's first few years. The issue being that the PS3 was selling fine. It wasn't doing great but it managed nearly 8 million in it's first full year on the market. The WiiU barely sold 3 million. The key difference here is that the WiiU's sales aren't enough justify the awful developer enviroment, the PS3's were. The PS3 was also even with the 360 in terms power and performance, it wasn't lagging behind the generation like the WiiU is. Meaning that devs didn't have to downgrade any 360 or PC ports to fit them on the PS3. 

And that GCN history was a great read. I'd recommend it to anyone. I understand they wanted a headstart, the 360 and PS2 benefitted greatly from this. But releasing first isn't always the best strategy. Look at the Saturn or Dreamcast. If Nintendo was going to release it early then they should have made sure they had the software to support the launch. It was obvious the PS4 and XBO were only a year or so away and both consoles were going to blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of power. Their main strategy should have been to build a strong userbase quickly in order to persuade 3rd parties to make games for it. That's what the PS2 did even though the Gamecube and Xbox were much stronger systems. They screwed this up by not releasing any games for like 7 months. They must have underestimated the difficulties of HD development. 

Now it's too late. Mario Kart and Smash Bros will help boost sales but then what? A new Zelda? Metroid? It's going to have to survive purely on Nintendo games which means it's not going to do any better than the GCN. Hell, it might even do worse. My main point was that Nintendo has no one but themselves to blame for this. It's not politics, it's common sense. Why waste time and money developing for a system without any worthwhile returns? Nobody can tell the future, but it boggles the mind as to why Nintendo couldn't envision a scenario like this. They experienced it twice with the GCN and N64! At least with the N64 they still had Rare to help them out. And great job losing Rare by the way. It's not like they nearly single handedly kept the N64 alive or anything. But I've already gone way off topic. Nintendo will be fine in the long run, it's not like this is going to bankrupt them or anything, I just expect them to try a little harder with their next console. 



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

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Fusioncode said:

A lot of developers did avoid the PS3 at first. Gabe Newell refused to develop for it, Activision threatened to pull support entirely, and the 360 got a ton of timed exclusives in it's first few years. The issue being that the PS3 was selling fine. It wasn't doing great but it managed nearly 8 million in it's first full year on the market. The WiiU barely sold 3 million. The key difference here is that the WiiU's sales aren't enough justify the awful developer enviroment, the PS3's were. The PS3 was also even with the 360 in terms power and performance, it wasn't lagging behind the generation like the WiiU is. Meaning that devs didn't have to downgrade any 360 or PC ports to fit them on the PS3. 

And that GCN history was a great read. I'd recommend it to anyone. I understand they wanted a headstart, the 360 and PS2 benefitted greatly from this. But releasing first isn't always the best strategy. Look at the Saturn or Dreamcast. If Nintendo was going to release it early then they should have made sure they had the software to support the launch. It was obvious the PS4 and XBO were only a year or so away and both consoles were going to blow the WiiU out of the water in terms of power. Their main strategy should have been to build a strong userbase quickly in order to persuade 3rd parties to make games for it. That's what the PS2 did even though the Gamecube and Xbox were much stronger systems. They screwed this up by not releasing any games for like 7 months. They must have underestimated the difficulties of HD development. 

Now it's too late. Mario Kart and Smash Bros will help boost sales but then what? A new Zelda? Metroid? It's going to have to survive purely on Nintendo games which means it's not going to do any better than the GCN. Hell, it might even do worse. My main point was that Nintendo has no one but themselves to blame for this. It's not politics, it's common sense. Why waste time and money developing for a system without any worthwhile returns? Nobody can tell the future, but it boggles the mind as to why Nintendo couldn't envision a scenario like this. They experienced it twice with the GCN and N64! At least with the N64 they still had Rare to help them out. And great job losing Rare by the way. It's not like they nearly single handedly kept the N64 alive or anything. But I've already gone way off topic. Nintendo will be fine in the long run, it's not like this is going to bankrupt them or anything, I just expect them to try a little harder with their next console. 


Can't say I don't agree with your points. As of now the Wii U is too much of a failure to recieve third party support and that's true I was just pointing that it's not enitirely the hardware in the Wii U that prevents it from getting third party support. It's as you say, it's the low sales f the system that is giving third parties no reason to develop for it. I guess that with time it can get some love from third parties.

Anyway good post, I actually have nothing else to say, you nailed most of it.



"I've Underestimated the Horse Power from Mario Kart 8, I'll Never Doubt the WiiU's Engine Again"

Anfebious said:

It's also true that the PS3 had almost the same issue. The PS3 didn't catter to third parties. It was harder to develop for and lost a lot of time exclusives to the Xbox 360 in the 7th generation. But... even with that difficulty third parties didn't hesitate to develop for it. Sure, ports of PS3 multiplaform games where crappy but that didn't stop them from releasing them.

In the Wii U's case I doubt it's as hard as the PS3 was to develop for. There is no excuse not to release ports for the Wii U. The PS3 wasn't doing as bad as the Wii U but it wasn't doing too hot either and it still got third prty games.

I know Fusioncode had already pointed some arguments but here is my full list of reasons why PS3's case was different:

- PS3 was selling way better than Wii U is nowadays.

- PS3 had a promising future (many games to be launched, potential to pull a lot of power out of the console, blu-ray yet to be accepted as the stardard, production costs yet to be hugely dropped) implying ever higher sales in the first years.

- PS3 presented a much higher attach rate of third-party game sales. This and the previous 2 points made devs to profit much more from PS3 than they are doing from Wii U.

- PS3 was harder to work with but it was as much as or even more powerful than X360. It was a matter of learning about its architecture. Therefore, many 3rd partys did a mess in the first title but then a good and motivating job in the following ones.

- WiiU's tech support seems to be as bad as that dev reported while PS3's was the opposite. For example, regarding Bayonetta they even managed to get a team to do some work for Platinum Games.



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

To add to Zod and Fusions points, the previous generation (PS2) was good to third parties. It was a reliable userbase that would naturally transition to PS3 and continue buying software. The same can't be said for Wii.



 

Why is this thread so empty feeling all of a sudden?



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JoeTheBro said:
Why is this thread so empty feeling all of a sudden?

Has been very slow since mid december hasn't it? Most have accepted the likely outcome and JL pops into let us know he's coming back on a weekly basis.

He had time to make this video tho - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRSRFfymLFQ



 

What is your opinion on this failure JL? - http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=172320&page=2

You were out by 7m+



 

Most of Lucas' supporters have left. Lucas himself barely posts anymore.



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

Seece said:

Has been very slow since mid december hasn't it? Most have accepted the likely outcome and JL pops into let us know he's coming back on a weekly basis.

He had time to make this video tho - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRSRFfymLFQ

Whos the obnoxious dumbass fanboy who can only say "hardcore to the max nigga" in the video? 

edit - i see you say its John Lucas. Is that an inside joke that i just wouldnt get or is it really him? If it is him why would the guy acting like a clown be taken seriously by anyone?



Seece said:
JoeTheBro said:
Why is this thread so empty feeling all of a sudden?

Has been very slow since mid december hasn't it? Most have accepted the likely outcome and JL pops into let us know he's coming back on a weekly basis.

He had time to make this video tho - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRSRFfymLFQ

Complete and utter desperation. He can't accept the fact that the WiiU is getting destroyed so he has to resort to this. How sad. 



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!