I think in the end.. as I said the Wii U is powerful enough... the third parties may have to work with it.. to get games on there.. but that is no reason to complain.. after all they had to work with a lot of systems in the past.. to get some games to work on them.. (Even PS/PS2 ironically enough had some games where they had to redo the engine.. because it would not work... ) The problem is.. right now The Wii U does not look like an option to do that with to the third parties.. and even if they do.. they do not put a lot of money into it to polish it up to make it look next gen.. or better than a PS3/360 game.. as thus you have fans that won't buy them.. because they feel they get sloppy ports.. and don't see triple A third party games as a reason to buy a Wii U anyway.. they buy them for the first party because the third parties won't put as much effort into the Wii U version.. this leads to the third parties being less inspired to bring most of their games to the system.. and so on and so on..

kitler53 said: i kind of like that nintendo tried something different but the gamepad is a bad idea. the simple fact nintendo still hasn't released a game that uses it in any meaningful way tells you everything. i would have been more tempted to get a wiiU if it had an upgraded wii-mote and better third party support (aka better base stats).

What do you mean by meaningful uses? 

It is a next generation console... Nintendo just half assed it.

If they would have built the Wii U to support two tablets locally at the same time along with on screen multiplayer, I think they would have had a better selling point. Imagine how much more fun NSMB U would be if two players with tablets could create platforms that are able to help or sabotage one another. Or a six player match of Call of Duty. Or a strategy game where the TV display is a neutral wide sweeping view of the action while the two players are able to have their own separate screens.

The N64 sold as much as it did in good part due the North America thanks to its multiplayer titles Star Fox, Smash Bros, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, various wrestling game, etc. The Wii was the same way, Wii Sports, NSMB Wii, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Just Dance, Mario Kart Wii, Smash Bros. Brawl, etc. With the Wii U, Nintendo introduced a new controller, then said it is only playable for one person in multiplayer with the rest stuck on the previous generation of controllers or the Pro Controller?

Even when it was first introduced, people asked about using multiple controllers and the company answer was "maybe later". That means one of two possible worst outcomes is true, they actually failed to consider people would want to play with more then one Gamepad or they didn't want to invest in making the system strong enough to do so regularly either to limit the production costs of selling Gamepads separately or the cost of increasing the Wii U hardware itself that would sustain such features. Either way it places a red mark and makes the Gamepad seem more like a gimmick then an actual attempt to change/improve gaming like the Wii could be argued as.

Half assed, I don't blame the Gamepad (it is actually good in most cases when used) but Nintendo for not either investing or thinking it through.

NoirSon said: It is a next generation console... Nintendo just half assed it. If they would have built the Wii U to support two tablets locally at the same time along with on screen multiplayer, I think they would have had a better selling point. Imagine how much more fun NSMB U would be if two players with tablets could create platforms that are able to help or sabotage one another. Or a six player match of Call of Duty. Or a strategy game where the TV display is a neutral wide sweeping view of the action while the two players are able to have their own separate screens. The N64 sold as much as it did in good part due the North America thanks to its multiplayer titles Star Fox, Smash Bros, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, various wrestling game, etc. The Wii was the same way, Wii Sports, NSMB Wii, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Just Dance, Mario Kart Wii, Smash Bros. Brawl, etc. With the Wii U, Nintendo introduced a new controller, then said it is only playable for one person in multiplayer with the rest stuck on the previous generation of controllers or the Pro Controller? Even when it was first introduced, people asked about using multiple controllers and the company answer was "maybe later". That means one of two possible worst outcomes is true, they actually failed to consider people would want to play with more then one Gamepad or they didn't want to invest in making the system strong enough to do so regularly either to limit the production costs of selling Gamepads separately or the cost of increasing the Wii U hardware itself that would sustain such features. Either way it places a red mark and makes the Gamepad seem more like a gimmick then an actual attempt to change/improve gaming like the Wii could be argued as. Half assed, I don't blame the Gamepad (it is actually good in most cases when used) but Nintendo for not either investing or thinking it through.

I had made a joke about this where the only reason Wii U supports only 1 gamepad is so that their next gimmick for their next system will be 10+ gamepad support. Now that I think about it, I could very well see that happening.

Einsam_Delphin said: NoirSon said: It is a next generation console... Nintendo just half assed it. If they would have built the Wii U to support two tablets locally at the same time along with on screen multiplayer, I think they would have had a better selling point. Imagine how much more fun NSMB U would be if two players with tablets could create platforms that are able to help or sabotage one another. Or a six player match of Call of Duty. Or a strategy game where the TV display is a neutral wide sweeping view of the action while the two players are able to have their own separate screens. The N64 sold as much as it did in good part due the North America thanks to its multiplayer titles Star Fox, Smash Bros, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, various wrestling game, etc. The Wii was the same way, Wii Sports, NSMB Wii, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Just Dance, Mario Kart Wii, Smash Bros. Brawl, etc. With the Wii U, Nintendo introduced a new controller, then said it is only playable for one person in multiplayer with the rest stuck on the previous generation of controllers or the Pro Controller? Even when it was first introduced, people asked about using multiple controllers and the company answer was "maybe later". That means one of two possible worst outcomes is true, they actually failed to consider people would want to play with more then one Gamepad or they didn't want to invest in making the system strong enough to do so regularly either to limit the production costs of selling Gamepads separately or the cost of increasing the Wii U hardware itself that would sustain such features. Either way it places a red mark and makes the Gamepad seem more like a gimmick then an actual attempt to change/improve gaming like the Wii could be argued as. Half assed, I don't blame the Gamepad (it is actually good in most cases when used) but Nintendo for not either investing or thinking it through. I had made a joke about this where the only reason Wii U supports only 1 gamepad is so that their next gimmick for their next system will be 10+ gamepad support. Now that I think about it, I could very well see that happening.

I actually see it as the Gamepad is a trial run, the next system's version will probably be sized like the Vita or something and be a combo portable device. But multiple gamepad support would cool, I can imagine local FPS deathmatches where players have the screen to themselves without having to be online or use multiple tvs.

Zero999 said: TheLastStarFighter said: For those saying the Gamepad ads $100 to the console, it doesn't. It was suggested that a replacement Pad would cost $100 at retail. It's build cost is surely much lower and dropping. And if you don't have a Pad, you need another controller in it's place. Just using made-up estimates, the Pad probably costs about $75 to make, while a pro-controller costs about $25. A more fancy controller like Dual Shock 4 is probably about $35 or more. So ditching the Pad would only give Nintendo around $50 or less extra to spend on specs. That could have a nice impact with a little more RAM and a slightly better GPU, but it wouldn't be anything many would notice. A better approach would be to keep the Pad (or something similar but maybe smaller) and up the specs a little but hide the costs in an online subscription like Sony did with PS4. Upping the specs a little probably wouldn't bring more 3rd party support because the main reasons games are skipping Wii U is low install base and tough competition from Nintendo 1st party - not specs. Watch_Dogs is there...any current game could be there. history proved there's no "competition from first parties" hindering thirds sales.

Actually, it has proved there is, especially at launch. People buying 360s bought it and played COD and Madden. People buying Wii U picked up NSMBU and NL. Quality third party games launched on time can thrive on a Nintendo platform. But dating back to the Genesis it can be easier to establish yourself without the Nintendo juggernauts around.

Zero999 said: KingdomHeartsFan said: Zero999 said: KingdomHeartsFan said: So do you like the Wii U the way it is or would you prefer it if Nintendo went with a regular controller and put those extra recources into the console, putting it on par or really close to the X1/PS4.  Personally I don't know what the hell Nintendo was thinking with this tablet.  That controller costs them so much to make and they have not put out a single game that uses it in a way that makes people think, this is why I have a Wii U.  I'm hoping Nintendo has a game in development that they had in mind when they were making the Wii U, because if they don't come out with a game that uses the tablet to its full potential it will really hurt long term sales of the Wii U.  I would have rathered a normal console that is more powerful, what do you guys think? The gamepad IS A REGULAR CONTROLLER + extra funcionalities. there's no "extra resources on the gamepad that could be on the console" and wii u is already not far behind the others. What are you talking about?  That expensive controller cost them $100+ to make, that is a huge portion of their budget for the console, if they went with a regular controller they could have upgraded the CPU or GPU to match or be stronger than the X1/PS4. just a hint. even if they sold the controller at a profit, the retail price would still be bellow $100. that means it costs about $70 tops to manufacture, only $50 more than a regular controller. and as I said, wii u can run any 8th gen game with it's curent specs, raising them would only mean waste of money, like sony and MS did.

My guess is the R&D to make the near latency free wireless video signal transmission work wasn't free. R&D is probably factored into the price of the controller.

That proclaimation at the end is utterly worthless too, lol. The Wii U can run any 8th gen game in the same way the 3DS probably could in theory run any Wii U game (see Mario 3D Land to Mario 3D World). You'd just have the scale the game down considerably.

NoirSon said: Einsam_Delphin said: NoirSon said: It is a next generation console... Nintendo just half assed it. If they would have built the Wii U to support two tablets locally at the same time along with on screen multiplayer, I think they would have had a better selling point. Imagine how much more fun NSMB U would be if two players with tablets could create platforms that are able to help or sabotage one another. Or a six player match of Call of Duty. Or a strategy game where the TV display is a neutral wide sweeping view of the action while the two players are able to have their own separate screens. The N64 sold as much as it did in good part due the North America thanks to its multiplayer titles Star Fox, Smash Bros, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, various wrestling game, etc. The Wii was the same way, Wii Sports, NSMB Wii, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Just Dance, Mario Kart Wii, Smash Bros. Brawl, etc. With the Wii U, Nintendo introduced a new controller, then said it is only playable for one person in multiplayer with the rest stuck on the previous generation of controllers or the Pro Controller? Even when it was first introduced, people asked about using multiple controllers and the company answer was "maybe later". That means one of two possible worst outcomes is true, they actually failed to consider people would want to play with more then one Gamepad or they didn't want to invest in making the system strong enough to do so regularly either to limit the production costs of selling Gamepads separately or the cost of increasing the Wii U hardware itself that would sustain such features. Either way it places a red mark and makes the Gamepad seem more like a gimmick then an actual attempt to change/improve gaming like the Wii could be argued as. Half assed, I don't blame the Gamepad (it is actually good in most cases when used) but Nintendo for not either investing or thinking it through. I had made a joke about this where the only reason Wii U supports only 1 gamepad is so that their next gimmick for their next system will be 10+ gamepad support. Now that I think about it, I could very well see that happening. I actually see it as the Gamepad is a trial run, the next system's version will probably be sized like the Vita or something and be a combo portable device. But multiple gamepad support would cool, I can imagine local FPS deathmatches where players have the screen to themselves without having to be online or use multiple tvs.

They could make it so while one person is playing Zelda or something on the TV, 6 other people could be playing Mario Kart together on their gamepads. Basically multiple different games could be played at the same time on the same system, though this'll probably require games to be in a digital format. Really there's lot's of awesome possibilitys for the makeshift tablet. As cool as it would be, I don't think they'll ever make a Console/Handheld hybrid, as they can make more money while the two are seperated.

TheLastStarFighter said: Zero999 said: TheLastStarFighter said: For those saying the Gamepad ads $100 to the console, it doesn't. It was suggested that a replacement Pad would cost $100 at retail. It's build cost is surely much lower and dropping. And if you don't have a Pad, you need another controller in it's place. Just using made-up estimates, the Pad probably costs about $75 to make, while a pro-controller costs about $25. A more fancy controller like Dual Shock 4 is probably about $35 or more. So ditching the Pad would only give Nintendo around $50 or less extra to spend on specs. That could have a nice impact with a little more RAM and a slightly better GPU, but it wouldn't be anything many would notice. A better approach would be to keep the Pad (or something similar but maybe smaller) and up the specs a little but hide the costs in an online subscription like Sony did with PS4. Upping the specs a little probably wouldn't bring more 3rd party support because the main reasons games are skipping Wii U is low install base and tough competition from Nintendo 1st party - not specs. Watch_Dogs is there...any current game could be there. history proved there's no "competition from first parties" hindering thirds sales. Actually, it has proved there is, especially at launch. People buying 360s bought it and played COD and Madden. People buying Wii U picked up NSMBU and NL. Quality third party games launched on time can thrive on a Nintendo platform. But dating back to the Genesis it can be easier to establish yourself without the Nintendo juggernauts around.

third parties who gave a shit sold well on nintendo's platforms. and even with the sheer amount of titles at wii u's launch, a good amount of thirds crossed the 100k mark. later this year, sales for the likes of batman, AC, watch dogs, Call of retrocess, W101, and sonic will show that again (I know W101 and sonic are exclusives but they're still 3rd party).

Soundwave said: Zero999 said: just a hint. even if they sold the controller at a profit, the retail price would still be bellow $100. that means it costs about $70 tops to manufacture, only $50 more than a regular controller. and as I said, wii u can run any 8th gen game with it's curent specs, raising them would only mean waste of money, like sony and MS did. My guess is the R&D to make the near latency free wireless video signal transmission work wasn't free. R&D is probably factored into the price of the controller. That proclaimation at the end is utterly worthless too, lol. The Wii U can run any 8th gen game in the same way the 3DS probably could in theory run any Wii U game (see Mario 3D Land to Mario 3D World). You'd just have the scale the game down considerably.

the game would have to be scalled down by A LOT. wii u can run anything from ps4/xone without many downgrades, with an irrelevant difference between the versions.