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Forums - General - Breaking News: George Zimmerman Found Not Guilty!

sales2099 said:
Can someone give me the rough breakdown of the situation. The crime in question, the main suspects, and why this ruling is justified/makes sense?

A Hispanic Man who wanted to be a police officer and worked for a neighorhood watch before saw a Black teenager walking through his neighborhood in a black hoody after a recent string of breakins by people in black hoodies.

He called the police and reported a suspious individual, asked if he should follow him, and when told it wouldn't be a good idea he did otherwise.

Trayvon Martin Noticed Zimmerman following him


The next part is unclear.

Somehow Martin ended up on top of Zimmerman punching him.  Zimmerman then shot Martin.  (Witnesses saw this part)

 

Zimmerman is the only suspect and he admitted to shooting martin and claimed that he lost martin, and that martin then double backed and confronted Zimmerman starting a fight and shot him.  The prosecution claims Zimmerman grabbed Trayvon which started the conflict.

 

The ruling makes sense because there is no way to ascertain who started the physical altercation.  The burden of proof lies on the prosecution to prove he committed a crime.  They could not prove Zimmerman did not act in self defense.  They could not break his story.  Martin didn't have ANY bruises outside those on his knuckles from punching.  He didn't even have any bruises that would indicate he was being held.



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timmah said:
enditall727 said:
timmah said:

How do we know that she actually heard Trayvon shouting 'get off' over and over? Is she more credible than the voice experts who could not even determine themselves who was screaming for help?  Her testomony doesn't line up with the physical evidence that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, beating his head into the concrete (based on injuries), or the Eyewitness who described Trayvon as being on top, straddling Zimmerman and beating him 'ground and pound, MMA style' while the person on the bottom yelled for help. It's reasonable to speculate that she heard somebody screaming 'get off' and just assumed it was Trayvon. It makes more sense that the person who was getting beaten would call for help or yell 'get off', does it not?

Eliminate race and emotion for a second and answer this. Person A was confirmed to be on top of Person B during an altercation, beating him. Person B had injuries to the face and back of the head, while person A had only bruising to the knuckles.

Who is more likely to be calling for help or saying 'get off', person A (on top, doing the beating), or person B (underneath, being beaten)?

That is called reasonable doubt, which is why the jury could not convict Zimmerman. A jury cannot convict based on speculation. Why is this so hard for people to understand?


She was on the phone with Trayvon and that's what she said. I also stated in that comment that people think she lied about that part

 

She was ON THE PHONE WITH TRAYVON so she heard "him" say it

 

You dont know when they fell on the ground so i dont see why you are attempting to argue that lol

 

Seems like you are implying that its impossible for Trayvon to have said "get off me" when getting grabbed before hitting them making them scream for help so somebody can help hold him down

 

This comment also seems like an attempt to force your opinion on me

Still speculation, you want a jury to convict on that? Did she hear Trayvon say 'get off' while he was holding the phone, or had he dropped it and jumped on Zimmerman and she actually heard Zimmerman? Is there any way to prove this beyond doubt based on one person's testomony of a cell phone call? Is it possible for her to determine 100% who's voice she heard when voice experts could not? She's also not an eyewitness, only hearing distorted sound over a phone (yes, a phone distorts sound by definition when it compresses it for digital cellular transmission). I don't think you're understanding what reasonable doubt is, and that there was a ton of reasonable doubt, as well as physical evidence and an eyewitness that Zimmerman was being beaten before he fired. Obviously nobody can say 100% whether she heard Trayvon or Zimmerman, which is, by definition, reasonable doubt.


Tell me when i said that i wanted the jury to do that.

 

I said that this was what i thought happened and that we could only go by speculation of who really started the scuffle. She said she heard "TRAYVON" say it and i would believe her because she knows his voice and was talking to him. I would also believe someone who talk and knew personally than voice experts who didn't know Trayvon.

 

That reasonable doubt on this part seems to be more of you just reaching lol



drunk said:
Slimebeast said:
secpierre34 said:
Slimebeast said:

What do you mean "a fight ensues"? A physical fight magically ensues?

A thug starts to beat an innocent man. Then the man shoots in self defense according to right of law. There's indisputable evidence of that since one man was injured in the face and backhead and the other one was not.


You clearly did not follow the case. Zimmerman approached Trayvon while he was walking back home because he thought Trayvon was "suspicious". Why did he think trayvon was suspicious, was not specified beside a hoodie and his fucking skin color. Then he asked trayvon to stop while the latter tried to avoid. There are tape recordings that go with this story. He then called the police who told him to leave the boy alone, he responded verbatim "THEY always get away". Get away from what, who the fuck is they in this guy's mind. So he follows Trayvon and starts to harass him, I don't know about you but if a stranger is following me, which Trayvon said on his phone according to witness testimony, I will either run or fight them. The court did not rule that he didn't caused the fight. They ruled that he was in danger. And perhaps he was, there are too many unknowns, but what we do know for fact is that Mr. Zimmerman started the confrontation. So he instigated the whole affair and when it turned sour for him he shot the guy

You would fight a stranger if he was just following you?

That's crazy behaviour. No wonder you're taking Trevyon's side in this case then. But the law is not on your side.

plenty of people would fight.  there's a seriously negative connotation with stalking.  muggers do it, rapists, pedophiles, crazed lover, etc.... Zimmerman's  got to be a naive tool to think stalking wouldn't illicit a negative reaction.  maybe women wouldn't try and beat your ass but men would, especially at night.  is it okay to fight your stalker? it depends... but regardless, you antagonize someone enough, then fists will be flying whether you like it or not.  and yes stalking is a form of harassment.  thats why you listen to the cops because they know the outcome of these confrontations.  and why this tool have a gun in public in the first place.  guns give you a sense of invincibility... and make you do dumb things you normally wouldn't do.

antagonize someone into fighting you, then you can shoot him.  one way to avoid murder charges

Nice, so in your world, I could just beat the shit out of (and maybe kill) anybody and just claim they were following me? What if you think they're following you, but you're just going to the same place? Oops. Interesting world you live in. You can't legally beat somebody into the ground just because they're following you, but good luck with that mindset. It'll get you far in life. On the other hand, it's legal to use deadly force if you are being beaten (which Zimmerman was). All the speculation about what led to the confrontation is not evidence, and not something a jury can use to convict. The verdict was correct based on the EVIDENCE. That doesn't make Trayvon's death less of a tragedy, but it is what it is.

By the way, there was no evidence presented, nor any argument made that Zimmerman 'antagonized' Martin. Everybody on your side of the argument keeps doing the same thing, using a ton of speculation, and making nutty statements that don't line up with law or what is actually admissible in a trial, and somehow speculation and arguments based on emotion are the core reason for what you see as a need to convict. So, because your personal opinion is that it's ok to beat somebody up for following you, that means Zimmerman should have been convicted? You either don't understand the legal system and jury instructions, or you don't care to.



Kasz216 said:
sales2099 said:
Can someone give me the rough breakdown of the situation. The crime in question, the main suspects, and why this ruling is justified/makes sense?

A Hispanic Man who wanted to be a police officer and worked for a neighorhood watch before saw a Black teenager walking through his neighborhood in a black hoody after a recent string of breakins by people in black hoodies.

He called the police and reported a suspious individual, asked if he should follow him, and when told it wouldn't be a good idea he did otherwise.

Trayvon Martin Noticed Zimmerman following him


The next part is unclear.

Somehow Martin ended up on top of Zimmerman punching him.  Zimmerman then shot Martin.  (Witnesses saw this part)

 

Zimmerman is the only suspect and he admitted to shooting martin and claimed that he lost martin, and that martin then double backed and confronted Zimmerman starting a fight and shot him.

 

The ruling makes sense because there is no way to ascertain who started the physical altercation.  The burden of proof lies on the prosecution to prove he committed a crime.  They could not prove Zimmerman did not act in self defense.  They could not break his story.


You have to remember that Zimmerman supposedly identifies his self as being white.

 

But he is hispanic and white though



enditall727 said:


Tell me when i said that i wanted the jury to do that.

 

I said that this was what i thought happened and that we could only go by speculation of who really started the scuffle. She said she heard "TRAYVON" say it and i would believe her because she knows his voice and was talking to him. I would also believe someone who talk and knew personally than voice experts who didn't know Trayvon.

 

That reasonable doubt on this part seems to be more of you just reaching lol

Pschologically speaking, she's going to have a built-in bias to see Trayvon in the best light since he's her friend, so she's going to believe that he wasn't the agressor based on that bias. Because of this, she's less credible on this front in a court of law than a voice expert in the mind of a jury. There are very clear arguments to be made that she couldn't have identified the voice 100% over a cell phone, especially since trained experts could not, there's really no qustion about that. I understand why YOU came to that conclusion, and you're entitled to your opinion for sure, but that's not how it works in a trial. Please go and do a little reading about how our justice system works in relation to reasonable doubt, it might help you to understand why the jury could not convict Zimmerman.



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enditall727 said:

I said that this was what i thought happened and that we could only go by speculation of who really started the scuffle. She said she heard "TRAYVON" say it and i would believe her because she knows his voice and was talking to him. I would also believe someone who talk and knew personally than voice experts who didn't know Trayvon.

 

That reasonable doubt on this part seems to be more of you just reaching lol





enditall727 said:
Kasz216 said:
sales2099 said:
Can someone give me the rough breakdown of the situation. The crime in question, the main suspects, and why this ruling is justified/makes sense?

A Hispanic Man who wanted to be a police officer and worked for a neighorhood watch before saw a Black teenager walking through his neighborhood in a black hoody after a recent string of breakins by people in black hoodies.

He called the police and reported a suspious individual, asked if he should follow him, and when told it wouldn't be a good idea he did otherwise.

Trayvon Martin Noticed Zimmerman following him


The next part is unclear.

Somehow Martin ended up on top of Zimmerman punching him.  Zimmerman then shot Martin.  (Witnesses saw this part)

 

Zimmerman is the only suspect and he admitted to shooting martin and claimed that he lost martin, and that martin then double backed and confronted Zimmerman starting a fight and shot him.

 

The ruling makes sense because there is no way to ascertain who started the physical altercation.  The burden of proof lies on the prosecution to prove he committed a crime.  They could not prove Zimmerman did not act in self defense.  They could not break his story.


You have to remember that Zimmerman supposedly identifies his self as being white.

 

But he is hispanic and white though

That's like saying Barak Obama is Black and White. 

He is, but nobody is going to care about the white part.

Guy is noticeably Hispanic.  He's not "passing".



dsgrue3 said:
enditall727 said:

I said that this was what i thought happened and that we could only go by speculation of who really started the scuffle. She said she heard "TRAYVON" say it and i would believe her because she knows his voice and was talking to him. I would also believe someone who talk and knew personally than voice experts who didn't know Trayvon.

 

That reasonable doubt on this part seems to be more of you just reaching lol



Well, I wasn't going to mock her (I kinda felt bad for her, she was forced into a spot that she really wasn't prepared to be in), but she was definitely not the best 'star witness' for the prosecution. I felt she may have helped the defense more at times. She was certainly not going to viewed by any jury as a very credible witness based on her performance on the stand.



timmah said:
enditall727 said:


Tell me when i said that i wanted the jury to do that.

 

I said that this was what i thought happened and that we could only go by speculation of who really started the scuffle. She said she heard "TRAYVON" say it and i would believe her because she knows his voice and was talking to him. I would also believe someone who talk and knew personally than voice experts who didn't know Trayvon.

 

That reasonable doubt on this part seems to be more of you just reaching lol

Pschologically speaking, she's going to have a built-in bias to see Trayvon in the best light since he's her friend, so she's going to believe that he wasn't the agressor based on that bias. Because of this, she's less credible on this front in a court of law than a voice expert in the mind of a jury. There are very clear arguments to be made that she couldn't have identified the voice 100% over a cell phone, especially since trained experts could not, there's really no qustion about that. I understand why YOU came to that conclusion, and you're entitled to your opinion for sure, but that's not how it works in a trial. Please go and do a little reading about how our justice system works in relation to reasonable doubt, it might help you to understand why the jury could not convict Zimmerman.


I knew it Lol

 

I knew you were going to do it 

 

We must disregard everything that might even remotely make Trayvons side look even remotely justifiable and take Zimmermans words as gospel even though he is known to have backtracked his story lol

 

Good day, sir



timmah said:
drunk said:
Slimebeast said:
secpierre34 said:
Slimebeast said:

What do you mean "a fight ensues"? A physical fight magically ensues?

A thug starts to beat an innocent man. Then the man shoots in self defense according to right of law. There's indisputable evidence of that since one man was injured in the face and backhead and the other one was not.


You clearly did not follow the case. Zimmerman approached Trayvon while he was walking back home because he thought Trayvon was "suspicious". Why did he think trayvon was suspicious, was not specified beside a hoodie and his fucking skin color. Then he asked trayvon to stop while the latter tried to avoid. There are tape recordings that go with this story. He then called the police who told him to leave the boy alone, he responded verbatim "THEY always get away". Get away from what, who the fuck is they in this guy's mind. So he follows Trayvon and starts to harass him, I don't know about you but if a stranger is following me, which Trayvon said on his phone according to witness testimony, I will either run or fight them. The court did not rule that he didn't caused the fight. They ruled that he was in danger. And perhaps he was, there are too many unknowns, but what we do know for fact is that Mr. Zimmerman started the confrontation. So he instigated the whole affair and when it turned sour for him he shot the guy

You would fight a stranger if he was just following you?

That's crazy behaviour. No wonder you're taking Trevyon's side in this case then. But the law is not on your side.

plenty of people would fight.  there's a seriously negative connotation with stalking.  muggers do it, rapists, pedophiles, crazed lover, etc.... Zimmerman's  got to be a naive tool to think stalking wouldn't illicit a negative reaction.  maybe women wouldn't try and beat your ass but men would, especially at night.  is it okay to fight your stalker? it depends... but regardless, you antagonize someone enough, then fists will be flying whether you like it or not.  and yes stalking is a form of harassment.  thats why you listen to the cops because they know the outcome of these confrontations.  and why this tool have a gun in public in the first place.  guns give you a sense of invincibility... and make you do dumb things you normally wouldn't do.

antagonize someone into fighting you, then you can shoot him.  one way to avoid murder charges

Nice, so in your world, I could just beat the shit out of (and maybe kill) anybody and just claim they were following me? What if you think they're following you, but you're just going to the same place? Oops. Interesting world you live in. You can't legally beat somebody into the ground just because they're following you, but good luck with that mindset. It'll get you far in life. On the other hand, it's legal to use deadly force if you are being beaten (which Zimmerman was). All the speculation about what led to the confrontation is not evidence, and not something a jury can use to convict. The verdict was correct based on the EVIDENCE. That doesn't make Trayvon's death less of a tragedy, but it is what it is.

By the way, there was no evidence presented, nor any argument made that Zimmerman 'antagonized' Martin. Everybody on your side of the argument keeps doing the same thing, using a ton of speculation, and making nutty statements that don't line up with law or what is actually admissible in a trial, and somehow speculation and arguments based on emotion are the core reason for what you see as a need to convict. So, because your personal opinion is that it's ok to beat somebody up for following you, that means Zimmerman should have been convicted? You either don't understand the legal system and jury instructions, or you don't care to.

lol, there a many ways to know if someone is stalking you.  and we already know from the facts in this case that he was... thats why the cops told him not to do it.   derp, someone looks suspicious... thats not good enough.   you stalk someone when that person didn't do anything wrong.  thats harrassment... and an ass whooping thats ready to happen.   go ahead, at night stalk some random guys who "look suspicious".  lets see how fast you get your ass beat. lol