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Forums - Nintendo - With lack of support, Nintendo need to take over

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Nintendo should

make their own cutting-edge engine. 12 100.00%
 
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Einsam_Delphin said:
@happydolphin:
Ah, well if it would help build relations with 3rd parties then I'd be all for it, but I don't think Nintendo can afford to do that right now. All their devs got to be hard at work pumping out games, namely for the Wii U who's library is uber lacking right now. Though honestly, even if they did have the manpower, I kinda doubt Nintendo would do that. Graphics don't seem to be one of their top prioritys anymore which is understandable.

I think you're mistaken here, with all respect. In the link I provided in OP, Iwata mentions that he is ready to dish out resources for what he calls power games. Though Nintendo put the padlet as priority over graphics, it doesn't mean that graphics aren't a priority for them. Had the U not had a padlet, you can be sure the extra room for cost would have been put in processing power.

Also, though you're correc that Nintendo need to dish out more games, we know that they are making use of strategic partnerships to satisfy that objective (which they can't do all on their own). Also, they are a manufacturer and need to make sure there is a solid game engine on their platform if none is built by a partner, it's a no-brainer. Not only that, we know that resources at Retro are being employed for tooling Nintendo internally for game development of advanced games (such as Zelda). So it's only logical to expect Nintendo to extend that service to its partners (and in the process pull the finger to the competitors who say things like the U can't handle Frostbite).



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What Nintendo needs to do is to prove that different gaming genres can be popular on a Nintendo console.

Bayonetta 2 is a good first experiment. However, it's not enough. They need a TPS and FPS they can showcase and other types beyond that. They need to go to developers and make an offer for an exclusive, or failing that, offer to subsidize a Wii U version. They need to swallow some of their famous pride and really, really push a third party title. They need to pay for advertising, they need to cover possible losses, and they need to offer support that exceeds what Sony or Microsoft is doing. Nintendo is far removed from the catbird seat they once occupied.

They've got to prove that putting core titles on the Wii U can be successful. If they can manage that, then they've got to be ready to welcome publishers like EA back with open arms. Some rabid fans might object to that, but we're talking about business, not high school drama.

As far as I can see, the initial burden is on Nintendo. They have a lot of work to do and no right to expect third parties to do it for them. If they pull out all the stops and genuinely make a real effort, I'll be rooting for them. If they're simply happy to produce a Mario-box, then so be it.

Bayonetta 2 is going to be a big deal. The entire industry is going to be watching very closely. Nintendo had better promote the hell out of it, and not by having Bayonetta appear in Mario & Sonic at the Olympics or whatever.

If Nintendo does all that, then the next burden will be on Nintendo fans to buy those different genres.



happydolphin said:
RolStoppable said:
Such an engine would only make sense for companies who haven't already one on their own and also want to develop for a nintendo console. Which applies to hardly anyone, I would say.

What if Ubi didn't have to use their own engine for ZombiU, and could use Retro's engine, saving dev time while making the best use of the U thanks to said engine, for Nintendo exclusives?

Also, I believe that would encourage companies to make cutting-edge Nintendo exclusives and build that market on the U rather than revert to games for the casual audience, as well as help Nintendo shed this image of being out of the cutting-edge game altogether when that may not be entirely true.

that doesnt make much sense, how can they produce cutting edge engines when the system that would be powering these engines are themselves not cutting edge?



Play4Fun said:

Why would they waste money doing that? 3rd parties already have their own in house engines and those who don't have the Unity Engine available to them.

There's no need to do such a thing. Would be a waste of their time.

Is Unity competitive with UE and the other top-tier game engines of the industry?
I am not sure what the answer is but I'd think it were a no.

In this scenario, 3rd parties could rely on Nintendo expertise, save time and money from working on their own systems, and make the best use out of the U (which they probs couldn't achieve on their own proprietary engine).



oniyide said:
happydolphin said:
RolStoppable said:
Such an engine would only make sense for companies who haven't already one on their own and also want to develop for a nintendo console. Which applies to hardly anyone, I would say.

What if Ubi didn't have to use their own engine for ZombiU, and could use Retro's engine, saving dev time while making the best use of the U thanks to said engine, for Nintendo exclusives?

Also, I believe that would encourage companies to make cutting-edge Nintendo exclusives and build that market on the U rather than revert to games for the casual audience, as well as help Nintendo shed this image of being out of the cutting-edge game altogether when that may not be entirely true.

that doesnt make much sense, how can they produce cutting edge engines when the system that would be powering these engines are themselves not cutting edge?

For example, if you compare ZombiU to TLOU, there is a clear difference. Even though TLOU is 7th gen, it still has effects that would satisfy the non-casual crowd when it comes to visuals, even though it isn't next-gen it would be, in al relativity, cutting-edge. Also, I mentioned in OP cases where cutting edge wasn't necessarily dependent on hardware capabilities but on scientific breakthrough. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that kind of thing could be integrated into an advanced U game engine.



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happydolphin said:
oniyide said:
happydolphin said:
oniyide said:
take over...what? whats are you trying to say?

Take over the project of having a cutting-edge game engine available for their platform, produce one themselves, become a full-fledged game engine supplier and compete with the big boys out there who aren't willing to lift a finger. It's time for Nintendo to do it themselves.

pretty much what Rol said.

Ill add that Ninty doesnt even want to go cutting edge with there hardware, what makes you think they'll do it for a game engine that is even less lucrative?

@bold. You'll notice that I replied. The Wii had support for non-casual content and the best-selling 3rd party game atm is ZombiU. You'll have to defend those points if you're going to side with him.

@2. In the link I provided, Iwata said that for certain games he was ready to dispatch resources for what he called "power games". He knows there is a need for games that cater to that market. That makes me believe a strategy that helps him push that objective would interest him, including empowering partners with top-tier dev tools (e.g. a game engine).

a game selling less than 500,000 WITH a bundle in 6 months is nothing to really be proud, of if thats the kind of sales we have to look forward to on Wii U then they better be multiplat

power games could mean anything



To offer some support for happydolphin, I don't think it's with blockbuster publishers/developers that Nintendo having a free engine would help with but rather for winning second level projects which might grow into more prolific franchises.

As an example, look at Demon's Souls, which used Sony's free-use engine. It's been a boon in Japan, with studios like Nippon Ichi and Gust employing it for several titles each. Perhaps Nintendo having a free engine could promote more projects of that level?



RolStoppable said:

Then Ubisoft would save money on initial costs, but since they already got ZombiU to work on the Wii U, they have a working engine in place to make more Wii U exclusives, if that is what they want to do. When it comes to multiplatform support, a Nintendo engine wouldn't help matters, because it wouldn't be universally compatible with the engines that third parties primarily use.

We live in an era where exclusives on home consoles rarely happen anymore and the ones that do are usually moneyhatted by console manufacturers in one form or another. It's unrealistic to expect third parties to make exclusives, it's even more unrealistic to expect third parties to be willing to build a market for more expensive games on a Nintendo home console.

It isn't about technology. It's about personal goals that companies have. Nintendo can throw everything they want at third parties, it won't solve the problem.

The ZombiU engine could use improvement, let's be honest. If we compare ZombiU to some top-tier 7th gen stuff (TLoU, TLG), I'm not sure ZombiU's visuals compare well. Whereas using a Retro engine many features could be leveraged. Ultimately whether it's ZombiU or a new exclusive, not only would upfront costs be reduced, but the quality of the visuals would be enhanced. Multiplats are not part of the plan, and I agree there.

When it comes to exclusives, when it comes to Nintendo consoles it's the only way to go for the coming gen, because the U will not be able to compete with the other two platforms (I'm sad to admit it). In other words, the U will only get exclusives. Whether these are moneyhatted or made out of the hunch of a business opportunity (ZombiU?), the fact is that U games will likely be exclusives if they want to sell any reasonable figure.

About 3rd parties, I believe it's time to make a distinction of camps, now that the cat is out of the bag: 1) those that will snob Nintendo due to political reasons or because they don't understand the business opportunity on a Nintendo console, and 2) those that see an opportunity on Nintendo's platform and would support the system with exclusive content. I believe this divide will become more and more clear in the coming months and, with this divide, companies will begin to understand more clearly the business opportunity Nintendo's console presents to 3rd party partners. 



happydolphin said:
Play4Fun said:

Why would they waste money doing that? 3rd parties already have their own in house engines and those who don't have the Unity Engine available to them.

There's no need to do such a thing. Would be a waste of their time.

Is Unity competitive with UE and the other top-tier game engines of the industry?
I am not sure what the answer is but I'd think it were a no.

In this scenario, 3rd parties could rely on Nintendo expertise, save time and money from working on their own systems, and make the best use out of the U (which they probs couldn't achieve on their own proprietary engine).

If a 3rd party company can't afford UE/top-tier engines, then chances are they can't afford the budget necessary to take advantage of them either which would make Unity a better choice for their needs.

And I don't think your scenario would help with multiplats since those are built on one engine anyways.

There are many steps Nintendo need to take to better their situation, but I don't think this is one of them.





happydolphin said:
oniyide said:
happydolphin said:
RolStoppable said:
Such an engine would only make sense for companies who haven't already one on their own and also want to develop for a nintendo console. Which applies to hardly anyone, I would say.

What if Ubi didn't have to use their own engine for ZombiU, and could use Retro's engine, saving dev time while making the best use of the U thanks to said engine, for Nintendo exclusives?

Also, I believe that would encourage companies to make cutting-edge Nintendo exclusives and build that market on the U rather than revert to games for the casual audience, as well as help Nintendo shed this image of being out of the cutting-edge game altogether when that may not be entirely true.

that doesnt make much sense, how can they produce cutting edge engines when the system that would be powering these engines are themselves not cutting edge?

For example, if you compare ZombiU to TLOU, there is a clear difference. Even though TLOU is 7th gen, it still has effects that would satisfy the non-casual crowd when it comes to visuals, even though it isn't next-gen it would be, in al relativity, cutting-edge. Also, I mentioned in OP cases where cutting edge wasn't necessarily dependent on hardware capabilities but on scientific breakthrough. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that kind of thing could be integrated into an advanced U game engine.

??? theres nothing cutting edge about TLOU though, likewise for Zombi U. People are being satisfied because it looks to be another good game on a system that has been on the market for 6 years. Wii U been on the market for six months. Not dependent on hardware? News to me, what would that look like?