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Forums - Politics - Man Tricks Girlfriend Into Getting Abortion

Max King of the Wild on 18 May 2013
Jay520 said:
ultima said:
Jay520 said:
DamnTastic said:
Jay520 said:
The man should have to take responsibility for the baby since he made the conscious decision to have unprotected sex when he knew the risks.


What if the woman takes the pill and suddenly stops taking them without telling the man?


That's a risk that the man willingly took and he knew the consequences of that. He decided to trust his girlfriend without evidence and it was his own fault that he was deceived. For that, he should reap the consequences. When two people consciously decide to risk having a baby, then they need to both need to take responsibility if there is a baby.

Also, women don't have more power over men. A men has the power to have a baby with someone else who also wants a baby. Similarly, women only have power to have a baby with someone else who also wants a baby. So I'm not seeing how a woman has extra power to have a baby. Both men and women need to find a consenting, fertile mate.

That's BS man. By the same argument, if a bank decides to confiscate a customer's money, it's the customer's fault for naively trusting the bank with the money.


That's different. Banks and customers form a legal agreement with certain parameters. If either party breakdown these parameters, then legal action must be taken. Same for a man and woman; if they had a legal, contractual agreement beforehand that the man wouldn't have to financially support the child, then he shouldn't have to. Unfortunately for most men, that's not the case.

that contract would never hold up in law... you know why? The female willingly take the pill while in a relationship is the contract



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Jay520 on 18 May 2013
curl-6 said:
Jay520 said:
No, he probably didn't decide to have a baby. BUT he did make the decision to take part in an activity which had a high risk of him being a parent. He took a risk, so he should be prepared to accept the consequences of this risk.

Just because society is fucked up and people treat sex like a game doesn't mean it isn't serious and people shouldn't have to pay the consequences. That's a weak argument.

This isn't the stone age, sex and procreation are no longer one and the same. There's nothing "fucked up" about having sex for fun.



Sure, you can treat sex like a fun little game if you want, by its fucked up if you don't take responsibility when the real and serious consequences result. Just because you partake in an activity for fun, doesn't mean you shouldn't take responsibility for the consequences of that activity

curl-6 on 18 May 2013
Jay520 said:
curl-6 said:
Jay520 said:
No, he probably didn't decide to have a baby. BUT he did make the decision to take part in an activity which had a high risk of him being a parent. He took a risk, so he should be prepared to accept the consequences of this risk.

Just because society is fucked up and people treat sex like a game doesn't mean it isn't serious and people shouldn't have to pay the consequences. That's a weak argument.

This isn't the stone age, sex and procreation are no longer one and the same. There's nothing "fucked up" about having sex for fun.


Sure, you can treat sex like a fun little game if you want, by its fucked up if you don't take responsibility when the real and serious consequences result. Just because you partake in an activity for fun, doesn't mean you shouldn't take responsibility for the consequences of that activity

What's fucked up is parenthood being forced on someone.



outlawauron on 18 May 2013

Wow, if he gets charged for murder, how are normal abortions not treated as such....

 

Edit: oh, they talk about it a little bit here.



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Max King of the Wild on 18 May 2013
curl-6 said:
Jay520 said:
curl-6 said:
Jay520 said:
No, he probably didn't decide to have a baby. BUT he did make the decision to take part in an activity which had a high risk of him being a parent. He took a risk, so he should be prepared to accept the consequences of this risk.

Just because society is fucked up and people treat sex like a game doesn't mean it isn't serious and people shouldn't have to pay the consequences. That's a weak argument.

This isn't the stone age, sex and procreation are no longer one and the same. There's nothing "fucked up" about having sex for fun.


Sure, you can treat sex like a fun little game if you want, by its fucked up if you don't take responsibility when the real and serious consequences result. Just because you partake in an activity for fun, doesn't mean you shouldn't take responsibility for the consequences of that activity

What's fucked up is parenthood being forced on someone.

No one is forcing it. It's a consequence of an action most people make the consious decision to partake in.



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curl-6 on 18 May 2013
Max King of the Wild said:
curl-6 said:
Jay520 said:
curl-6 said:
Jay520 said:
No, he probably didn't decide to have a baby. BUT he did make the decision to take part in an activity which had a high risk of him being a parent. He took a risk, so he should be prepared to accept the consequences of this risk.

Just because society is fucked up and people treat sex like a game doesn't mean it isn't serious and people shouldn't have to pay the consequences. That's a weak argument.

This isn't the stone age, sex and procreation are no longer one and the same. There's nothing "fucked up" about having sex for fun.


Sure, you can treat sex like a fun little game if you want, by its fucked up if you don't take responsibility when the real and serious consequences result. Just because you partake in an activity for fun, doesn't mean you shouldn't take responsibility for the consequences of that activity

What's fucked up is parenthood being forced on someone.

No one is forcing it. It's a consequence of an action most people make the consious decision to partake in.

By having protected sex you're not signing up to have a child, any more than by walking down the street you're signing up to get run over by a car or mugged.



curl-6 on 18 May 2013

Oh, and I'm not talking about the guy in the OP.



sc94597 on 18 May 2013
Jay520 said:
@sc

You seem to be referring to the morality of abortion, which is not what I was talking about. I'm talking about who should take responsibility and who has power

Both the man and woman should take a responsibility, because:
(a) The man chose to make decisions that results in a baby - sex; and
(b) The woman chose to make decisions that results in a baby - sex and refusing to abort.
Because both parties made decisions that resulted in a baby, both should take responsibility for a baby.

Both a man and woman have the power to decide on having a baby because a baby requires:
(a) A man who agrees to sex, which can result in a baby; and
(b) A woman who agrees to sex and does not abort, which results in a baby.

From this, we can conclude that no one can force someone to be a parent, because in order to be a parent, that person needs to make decisions which risk the birth of a baby.

So the woman makes a mistake -> she can abort the baby. 

A man makes a mistake -> oh well you're a parent. I see! Equality, huh? 



Max King of the Wild on 18 May 2013
curl-6 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
curl-6 said:
 

 

No one is forcing it. It's a consequence of an action most people make the consious decision to partake in.

By having protected sex you're not signing up to have a child, any more than by walking down the street you're signing up to get run over by a car or mugged.

Why that's a terrible argument. First of all, protected sex is not 100%. Most people know this and thus know their might be reprucussions of the action. Secondly, protected is pretty irrelevant. By your argument if they didn't sign up for it they shouldn't have to be responsible. Lastly, your argument is even remotely similar. Walking down the street doesn't cause being hit by a car



curl-6 on 18 May 2013
Max King of the Wild said:
curl-6 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
curl-6 said:
 

 

No one is forcing it. It's a consequence of an action most people make the consious decision to partake in.

By having protected sex you're not signing up to have a child, any more than by walking down the street you're signing up to get run over by a car or mugged.

Why that's a terrible argument. First of all, protected sex is not 100%. Most people know this and thus know their might be reprucussions of the action. Secondly, protected is pretty irrelevant. By your argument if they didn't sign up for it they shouldn't have to be responsible. Lastly, your argument is even remotely similar. Walking down the street doesn't cause being hit by a car

Parenthood is too big a thing to be forced on someone who took all reasonable steps to avoid it. It should be voluntary.