Also, I know another case where my mother had a friend who's children were taken from her because she smoked Marijuana during her pregnancies. The adopted parents, an upper-middle class family, get child support from her. She's been to prison multiple times because she is unable to pay the child support. So not only did she lose custody of her children for a drug less harmful than cigarettes, but she also has to pay child support for children she isn't even allowed to see? Custody laws and child support laws are horribly archaic and disgustingly intrusive. There's certainly a more fair system out there.

Probably the right reaction ;P

Wait what, so in this story you’re suggesting it's the women fault because she took the tablets without  knowing what they were :s same scenario that your suggesting. There is no risk if she continued to take the pills which she agreed to *this scenario* that is a fault of her and not the man. It’s deception and entrapment and against his will. You also seem to suggest a guy can have a bay with anyone he wants, yes because a lover child is very much the same with a street fling. (Bold)Also quite clearly not, well not from what you say is fine, by you a women can also con a man into having a baby.

It does. The Child Support Agency determines the amount that the separated parent must pay the parent with child.

I think it only applied to up to 16 years old, and certain people won't have to pay (prisoners, students, unemployed). My uncle decided to give up working so that he wouldn't have to pay for his kids.... he chose homelessness over supporting his children. Still, he manages to afford a phoneplan, somehow, so I get to read his daily racist posts on FB.

abortion is murder and should not be allowed! people should not have unprotected sex for the sake of not killing and it does not matter what stage it is in

But you see, the woman's pregnancy was the consequence of her actions. If the only justification for her abortion is that she will not be able to financially support it, why should she have the choice not to have the baby? It was her actions which created the baby and she should be held accountable for them, just as the man should be held accountable for his actions. That's assuming the position that abortion is not a violation of the baby's right to life of course, which most pro-choicer believe. 

@sc

You seem to be referring to the morality of abortion, which is not what I was talking about. I'm talking about who should take responsibility and who has power

Both the man and woman should take a responsibility, because:
(a) The man chose to make decisions that results in a baby - sex; and
(b) The woman chose to make decisions that results in a baby - sex and refusing to abort.
Because both parties made decisions that resulted in a baby, both should take responsibility for a baby.

Both a man and woman have the power to decide on having a baby because a baby requires:
(a) A man who agrees to sex, which can result in a baby; and
(b) A woman who agrees to sex and does not abort, which results in a baby.

From this, we can conclude that no one can force someone to be a parent, because in order to be a parent, that person needs to make decisions which risk the birth of a baby.

That requires an argument. How do you justify calling a fetus a human?

Seriously dude? It was obviously a metaphor. It should've been clear, because, if nothing else, I asserted that it can't be called killing, then immediately afterwards talked about a guy comitting murder.

Edit: your position seems very inconsistent. You claim in another post that you're fine with the woman having the final say in whether the fetus gets an eventual birth or not. Why don't you want to charger her with murder if a fetus really is a human?