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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Namco on Dark Souls 2 marketing: "treating it as a massive AAA title, would be nice to attract Skyrim players"

Sveenjo, I think that some of your problems with the game will be fixed,(some of them have already been confirmed to be improved according to the new directors) at least partially in DS2 with the addition of more accessibility. and about just throwing bombs at the carpa demon..It doesn't have to be that way. You could take it on 1v1 without going up the stairs if u had the skill/knew how to. I've actually seen a lets player go in blind and do it like that On his first try...Talk about MLG pro Lol. But I guess we all have different experiences. I actually solo'd S&O and 4 kings The 1st 2 times I beat them.

@Fox they already confirmed no multiple modes.They also very quickly damaged controlled it before DS2 was even announced when rumor popped up. I don't mind making it more easy to understand because yeah alot of stuff you pretty much have to look up the internet for and what not.  But getting rid of the grief and challenege I don't like for the series and neither does the creator or anyone working on it.



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F0X said:
...


From my perspective, there are still (arbitrary?) aspects of the game not directly related to the puzzle aspect that compounds on the difficulty - namely the loss of souls and humanity upon death, as opposed to just having to try the puzzle again.

you can always get your souls back by finding your body and honestly, souls don't really matter.  lvling up does very little to affect your character.  if you want to improve you have to smith a better weapon and you don't lose mats at death.  humanity is only luck, kindleing and co-op and is easily farmable in mat form if you need more.

In fact, I'm beginning to think that the bloodstain idea isn't very great, as I imagine it encouraging players to make similar mistakes (like going someplace they probably shouldn't yet) over again, as opposed to trying a more ideal solution.

there is no place you can't get to with no lvling up at all if you know/learn the area.  i think the bloodstains are brilliant because it is foreshadowing to an encounter which rachets up the tension and it provides valuable clues on how to proceed (or not proceed).  i don't think i would have ever figured out the armor spider without the help of bloodstains.





Thaimasker said:

@Fox they already confirmed no multiple modes.They also very quickly damaged controlled it before DS2 was even announced when rumor popped up. I don't mind making it more easy to understand because yeah alot of stuff you pretty much have to look up the internet for and what not.


Then I hope we'll find out soon exactly what direction is being taken, if only so we can lay this issue to rest. The complexity of the game is a key reason why I would even think about altering the formula (even if its just a litte), but having a more proper tutorial system and such would go a long way to easing the initial difficulty of playing the game. It really isn't so bad once the player "gets into the groove of it", so to speak.



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Thaimasker said:

Sveenjo, I think that some of your problems with the game will be fixed,(some of them have already been confirmed to be improved according to the new directors) at least partially in DS2 with the addition of more accessibility. and about just throwing bombs at the carpa demon..It doesn't have to be that way. You could take it on 1v1 without going up the stairs if u had the skill/knew how to. I've actually seen a lets player go in blind and do it like that On his first try...Talk about MLG pro Lol. But I guess we all have different experiences. I actually solo'd S&O and 4 kings The 1st 2 times I beat them.

@Fox they already confirmed no multiple modes.They also very quickly damaged controlled it before DS2 was even announced when rumor popped up. I don't mind making it more easy to understand because yeah alot of stuff you pretty much have to look up the internet for and what not.  But getting rid of the grief and challenege I don't like for the series and neither does the creator or anyone working on it.


i can see making the menus easier to navigate and some things a bit more explained but overall i hope they keep a lot of the mystery.  i totally fell for the dried finger my first playthough.  genious.



kitler53 said:
F0X said:
...


From my perspective, there are still (arbitrary?) aspects of the game not directly related to the puzzle aspect that compounds on the difficulty - namely the loss of souls and humanity upon death, as opposed to just having to try the puzzle again.

you can always get your souls back by finding your body and honestly, souls don't really matter.  lvling up does very little to affect your character.  if you want to improve you have to smith a better weapon and you don't lose mats at death.  humanity is only luck, kindleing and co-op and is easily farmable in mat form if you need more.

In fact, I'm beginning to think that the bloodstain idea isn't very great, as I imagine it encouraging players to make similar mistakes (like going someplace they probably shouldn't yet) over again, as opposed to trying a more ideal solution.

there is no place you can't get to with no lvling up at all if you know/learn the area.  i think the bloodstains are brilliant because it is foreshadowing to an encounter which rachets up the tension and it provides valuable clues on how to proceed (or not proceed).  i don't think i would have ever figured out the armor spider without the help of bloodstains.




Actually I stated it wrong. :/ I meant that having to go back to your body encouages making the same mistakes - the bloodstains are perfectly fine. The keys words in your statement are "if you already know the area". From the perspective of the first-time player, one who may not even know about how useful levelling up is, this could end up being a needlessly frustrating exercise.

My issue with souls is that the penalty could annoy players who are very fond on levelling up and working with the numbers in an RPG, which is a potentially large number of RPG fans. I think a more elegant solution would be to allow some souls to be retained after death as a means to further deemphasize soul grinding (which is not elegant).



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Treat it as a massive AAA title in the marketing sense, but don't you dare change it from Dark Souls.



All of this, of course, is just my opinion.

Skyrim 100%'d. Dark Souls 100%'d. 
Dark Souls > Skyrim.
Halo 4 is the best damn FPS since Halo 3.
Proud pre-orderer of 2 PS4's and an Xbox One. 

Currently Playing: Dark Souls II, South Park
Playstation 4: MGS V GZ, Killzone: Shadow Fall, NBA 2k14.

The prob with getting rid of high risk moments is that most of their base don't want it like that. Since there is only gonna be 1 mode and their focus is still the core players getting rid of grief and risk isn't a good idea. and who buys a game that is marketed as Hard as hell and you will die and not expect high risk moments like that. and when I was new I was annoyed about it as well but just said fuck it since souls are easy to obtain and aren't needed. The marketing would run those type of players away anyway.

 

 based on what they said so far...They just want to make the game more understandable...convenats easy to get into..warping early on/less back track..stuff like that...But not actually making the game easier or anyless grief worthy. The director has apparently been given alot of freedom..if they really wanted to appeal to skyrim players that badly then their hand would be up his ass lol.

and with the skyrim comment..Who wouldn't want their $ lol. based on the recent interviews and even this one(We're going after people who love and adore Dark Souls...admitting that Skyrim is a different type of game)  they seem more focused on not pissing off their core  than anything.



Thaimasker said:

Sveenjo, I think that some of your problems with the game will be fixed,(some of them have already been confirmed to be improved according to the new directors) at least partially in DS2 with the addition of more accessibility. and about just throwing bombs at the carpa demon..It doesn't have to be that way. You could take it on 1v1 without going up the stairs if u had the skill/knew how to. I've actually seen a lets player go in blind and do it like that On his first try...Talk about MLG pro Lol. But I guess we all have different experiences. I actually solo'd S&O and 4 kings The 1st 2 times I beat them.

I read they were getting rid of the mist zoning part. That will solve frustrations like the Capra Demon at least.

The problem I have with DS bosses is that it does not encourage experimentation for me since it sets you back to a bonfire every time. Contrast that with how Guacamelee works, difficult game, but it instantly let's you try a new approach. I didn't mind retrying the same platforming section 50 times, or flame face 30 times because it let me play. DS on the otherhand encouraged me to check online, summon help or grind for shards, less play time basically.

The best fight I had in DS was when I went back to the undead asylum. A knight, still quite out of my reach but since it was close to a bon fire I kept going figuring out it's patterns and how to trick it's AI routine between a row of columns. It still took 20 precisely timed hits while continually dodging for 10+ minutes to slowly wear it down. Overall over an hour of fun simply because it was right next to the respawn point with no interruptions.



kitler53 said:
yo_john117 said:
...

How? 

The following sentence is to your second response to my other post (well actually it's the main point that you guys can't seem to grasp). Having different difficulties wouldn't change a thing for you or anyone else that wants to play the game like Demons/Dark souls.

You play on your hard/classic mode and nothing changes for you in the least. All that changes is other interested people that don't have the time and patience for classic Soul's games get to enjoy it as well. It's that simple and basic.

because of what i described in my post..

most games add a lower difficulty by give you more health or ammo or whatever.  i promise you, all the health in the world won't make the game easier for you.  the game is a puzzle game at it's heart.  you learn how to exploit the AI and when you do i promise you -- the game is really really REEAAALLY easy. 

you can easily beat the game without taking a single hit one you know the AI.  this isn't a BS statement.  it's a fact.  i beat DS NG+ as a lvl 17 with no point in stamina. any hit was a death blow.  i still beat it.

it's like asking for an easy mode for braid.  what's the point... all you can do is tell the player the secret of how to win.  but if you don't earn that knowledge you didn't do a damn thing.  at that point just go on youtube and what someone else play.

 

so the only way to make it easier is to make simplier puzzles.  in demon's soul's did you figure out that the Old Hero was blind and that the only way to beat him is to not move quickly without clothes so to not make noise so to be invisible and therefore impossible to take a hit thereby making the boss fight really really REEAALLY easy?  cause if you take that puzzle out Old Hero is just a really bad boring stupid boss fight that you aren't going to have fun with over on easy mode anyways.  ...and i get a bad game.

I'm not saying change the puzzling aspect. In fact they could easily keep it all the same sans making the boss's (normal mobs aren't a huge problem) not hit as hard as on the classic difficulty which would basically mean they wouldn't destroy you instantly if you make one small mistake. I mean there is nothing, NOTHING worse for me than to spend an hour or so getting to a boss only to be wrecked upon and having to spawn back about 30-60 minutes from that boss. I absolutely hate redoing sections over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. To me it's basically like losing a save and stuff like that makes me not want to play the game ever again (which coincidentally, is what I did with both of them, despite both games being really fun)

In fact they could just add two simple little optional addition for an "easy" mode. And that is to a). have enemies give you more souls so you level up at a slightly faster rate (which means less annoying grinding) and b). give the option to put a checkpoint right before a boss so you don't have to backtrack so much.

If they did those two things they wouldn't have to change any core mechanics or puzzleling elements and their core fanbase would still be able to play the same type of game as Demons/Dark Souls as well as the game being more accessible to people who don't want to spend such an inordinate amount of time in the game.

You have to admit, something like that wouldn't hurt your gameplay at all, right?



Dark Souls should never get a pause option.

It's not bad game design, it's genious game design.

Not having the ability to pause makes the game world feel much more alive and important.