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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii U CPU + GPU clock speeds increased? Is it even possible?

Soleron said:

Impossible increase. They'd have to know BEFORE launch that every single unit was capable of X clockspeed before shipping, because as we saw with Xbox even a small failure % rate over 5 years is a HUGE disaster.

I was expecting say 2-3% if this was done. Not double. WTF.

Again, they'd have to know every unit could do that speed. And they didn't, or they'd have launched higher. It's not about heat/power, it's about manufacturing validation.

2-3%? I agree that 300% is FAR too high, but you can easily OC a CPU by 15-20% without running into any cooling or stability issues. 1,6GHz would sound reasonable.



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KHlover said:
Soleron said:

Impossible increase. They'd have to know BEFORE launch that every single unit was capable of X clockspeed before shipping, because as we saw with Xbox even a small failure % rate over 5 years is a HUGE disaster.

I was expecting say 2-3% if this was done. Not double. WTF.

Again, they'd have to know every unit could do that speed. And they didn't, or they'd have launched higher. It's not about heat/power, it's about manufacturing validation.

2-3%? I agree that 300% is FAR too high, but you can easily OC a CPU by 15-20% without running into any cooling or stability issues. 1,6GHz would sound reasonable.

YOU can OC a CPU that amount. The reason you can is because you're willing to take a couple of percent risk that the heatsink will fail, or that the CPU life will be shortened from say ten to five years. You're exploiting the difference between a manufacturer's super safe rating over the entire batch, and the likelihood your can be run faster with no issue.

Nintendo still has an excellent customer service reputation to uphold. If a clockspeed increase caused 1% failure rate increase that would not be acceptable. As I said, they'd have to have data beforehand that it could run faster guaranteed no problems. Like it was known the PSP CPU could be increased to 333 long before Sony did it.



Soleron said:

YOU can OC a CPU that amount. The reason you can is because you're willing to take a couple of percent risk that the heatsink will fail, or that the CPU life will be shortened from say ten to five years. You're exploiting the difference between a manufacturer's super safe rating over the entire batch, and the likelihood your can be run faster with no issue.

Nintendo still has an excellent customer service reputation to uphold. If a clockspeed increase caused 1% failure rate increase that would not be acceptable. As I said, they'd have to have data beforehand that it could run faster guaranteed no problems. Like it was known the PSP CPU could be increased to 333 long before Sony did it.


CPU's are usually factory overclocked or underclocked by their very nature due to the binning process.

The Wii U's CPU is also tiny from a transister count point of view, this means it's going to get high yields, they are probably throwing CPU's into the WiiU that can actually hit a high frequency at a lower voltage just because they don't have any other SKU's that need filling.

As for the shortening of a CPU's life, we all know that PowerPC can clock well and Nintendo was very conservative with it's clockspeeds, in return the voltage was probably higher than it needs to be in order to be able to use even the worst performing CPU's (From a voltage perspective) that they might have gotten out of a batch, now what happens if they didn't get the expected poor performing chips (Aka. The ones going into the consoles) after the first lot of batches from the fabs? Suddenly they have clockspeed to take advantage of.
if Nintendo can clock it high without driving up the TDP and thus voltages to insane levels, issues such as electromigration will be a non-issue and we must assume that's the case.

As for heatsinks "failing" it won't happen. A Heatsink is designed to dissipate a certain amount of TDP, Nintendo isn't going to push past that barrier it's not a variable number, heatsinks are designed to increase the amount of surface area available to air flow in order to cool the surface of a processor down.

And lastly, with the wattage, it's ALWAYS a good idea to release a Power Supply that is capable of more than you need, why? Capacitor aging, over time the efficiency and thus maximum wattage a Power Supply can sustain, decreases, greatly.

In my opinion it is possible as Nintendo would have the best idea on what it's chips are all capable of after leaving the fabs, they can clock it higher and use less power if they lower voltages if they get excellent yields, chances of 300% increase though is probably highly unlikely.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

fillet said:
JEMC said:
Zero999 said:
JEMC said:

The rumored new speed for the CPU is unbelievable. Really. No one can believe that they almost tripled its speed with no serious consequences.

But a more modest increase could be possible. Heck, Nintendo said that the WiiU was designed to use about 45W when playing yet when it was launched and the media tryed it, they recorded a consumption of "only" 35W.

is it that uncommon for a new console not being pushed to it's limits? also, i think 75W is wii u limit.

abot the cpu/gpu clock increse, i have no idea if it can be done or not but i read it wouldn't cause any consequence if the cooling and rest of the system were designed with that in mind to begin with. if true it would be kind of a surprise to everyone since increasing power was only possible with add ons.

No, that's the rated wattage for the power brick.

Of those 72 or 75W you have to substract what it is lost due to the efficiency of the power brick (most of the new PC Power supplies are about 85% of efficiency or higher), then there is the overhead that must be left for safety reasons (you don't really want it to be always at 100% of its capacity) and other things that also make you lose some W.


Doesn't work like that.

A PSU has a rated maximum it can provide to a system, the deduction of efficieny/wasted energy is made PRIOR to the output so it has no bearing at all on anything we are discussing (but might be a good topic on a Greenpeace type forum).

A power brick rated at 75W can provide a consisten 75W of power to a device. The Wii-U would obviously not be going at those limits 100% but it is perfectly "ok" from a design perspective to be using 75W 100% of the time as that is what it is rated to. That's not the "limit", the "limit" would be higher than 75W but 24/7 use can't be guranteed at a higher draw than that.

Computer PSUs are the same a rated "650W" PSU has to be able to provide 650W continuously to the system (with caviats of certain rails only being allowed certain amount of ratio of that power draw etc, but that's a separate PC thing). The actual power draw is going to be around 750-800W on a fairly decent PSU, that gives 80%+ efficiency rating.

Note as said above, those "80%+" guranteed PSUs aren't outputting 80% of 650W for example :)

To be fair, some cheap power supplies in the late 90s did just as he described, said it was  250W but that was peak, constant was around the 200 mark lol.



 

 

Baalzamon said:
IF, and its a big IF, they did this all intentionally just to mess with Sony and Microsoft and truly have people not know the true specs of the already released consoles, it was absolutely genius.


As I satate before, it would only be genius if the devs were in the loop. Otherwise BIG waste of time pissing them all off. 

i.e. it wouldn't been hard for Nintendo to say to the devs, we HAVE X amount of space left to boost the CPU and GPU. ATM it is clocked lower cause we need to get the OS more efficeint etc... and these specs will be unlocked with the summer update.

Consideirng the outburst by some developers, it is clear that was not the case. So if this rumor is true the move would be less than genius as devs are already pissed off. 



 

 

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ethomaz said:

walsufnir said:

Do you have more pics for additional fans for PS3 or 360? Is this official accessory?

Only third-party.

 

 

PS. The guys here have a lot of fear about the RROD on 360... so they always put a lot of cooler to not lost their console (remember that most consoles bought here are imported or in Gray Market... sounwarranted).

LOL this is fantastic.

We have air conditioning here instead. so if it is 40 outside, in house is a nice 18, but costs and arm and leg to keep the house cool.



 

 

Cobretti2 said:
fillet said:
JEMC said:
Zero999 said:
JEMC said:

The rumored new speed for the CPU is unbelievable. Really. No one can believe that they almost tripled its speed with no serious consequences.

But a more modest increase could be possible. Heck, Nintendo said that the WiiU was designed to use about 45W when playing yet when it was launched and the media tryed it, they recorded a consumption of "only" 35W.

is it that uncommon for a new console not being pushed to it's limits? also, i think 75W is wii u limit.

abot the cpu/gpu clock increse, i have no idea if it can be done or not but i read it wouldn't cause any consequence if the cooling and rest of the system were designed with that in mind to begin with. if true it would be kind of a surprise to everyone since increasing power was only possible with add ons.

No, that's the rated wattage for the power brick.

Of those 72 or 75W you have to substract what it is lost due to the efficiency of the power brick (most of the new PC Power supplies are about 85% of efficiency or higher), then there is the overhead that must be left for safety reasons (you don't really want it to be always at 100% of its capacity) and other things that also make you lose some W.


Doesn't work like that.

A PSU has a rated maximum it can provide to a system, the deduction of efficieny/wasted energy is made PRIOR to the output so it has no bearing at all on anything we are discussing (but might be a good topic on a Greenpeace type forum).

A power brick rated at 75W can provide a consisten 75W of power to a device. The Wii-U would obviously not be going at those limits 100% but it is perfectly "ok" from a design perspective to be using 75W 100% of the time as that is what it is rated to. That's not the "limit", the "limit" would be higher than 75W but 24/7 use can't be guranteed at a higher draw than that.

Computer PSUs are the same a rated "650W" PSU has to be able to provide 650W continuously to the system (with caviats of certain rails only being allowed certain amount of ratio of that power draw etc, but that's a separate PC thing). The actual power draw is going to be around 750-800W on a fairly decent PSU, that gives 80%+ efficiency rating.

Note as said above, those "80%+" guranteed PSUs aren't outputting 80% of 650W for example :)

To be fair, some cheap power supplies in the late 90s did just as he described, said it was  250W but that was peak, constant was around the 200 mark lol.

That's true, it's still happening now on OEM PCs as well :)

...bit OT...so I'll leave it there :)



spurgeonryan said:
What does this do if it was possible?

Doubles performance.



Possible? Yes
Real? Don't know



AstroMaSSi rules

Soleron said:
spurgeonryan said:
What does this do if it was possible?

Doubles performance.


To be fair, a lot of post update load times have been cut in half and that milisecond delay for the TV vs the gamepad no longer happens, plus I think my framerate is much more stable in Arkham City now.



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