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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Xbox Live adds 6 Million members in a single Year, is the hate unjustified?

 

Does Xbox Live deserve the criticism it gets in the forums?

Yes Xbox Live is a rip off 221 45.19%
 
No Xbox Live is the best ... 208 42.54%
 
No opinion / don't care 60 12.27%
 
Total:489
Mr Puggsly said:
Hynad said:

Ha ha. Do list those services you speak of.

Because most of the services on Live aren't offered by it. Live merely serve as an added gate before you have access to those third party services. For which you also have to subscribe to, on top of Gold.

And Steam offers no option!

I gotta move Steam aside to get to Netflix. That's why I gave up on PC gaming.

Oh, HA HA HA! Wow. Because Windows is so unintuitive as it it. I mean, how complicated icons on a picture background can be. What a hassle, right?

Seriously.... 



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Hynad said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Hynad said:

Ha ha. Do list those services you speak of.

Because most of the services on Live aren't offered by it. Live merely serve as an added gate before you have access to those third party services. For which you also have to subscribe to, on top of Gold.

And Steam offers no option!

I gotta move Steam aside to get to Netflix. That's why I gave up on PC gaming.

Oh, HA HA HA! Wow. Because Windows is so unintuitive as it it. I mean, how complicated icons on a picture background can be. What a hassle, right?

Seriously.... 

He has to be joking/taking the piss. No one is that ridiculous...



It isn't. Live offers an excellent, top of the line online service for the xbox fanbase...but when you're competitor are offering free online service and OPTIONAL additional/rental/etc services at a cheaper price as well as similar features found on Live, it makes you wonders why Live is still charging. Also, the games Plus provides aren't some crappy minis or indie games. Playstation Plus is giving out (not for free) full big-time titles for less than $5 a month. You can argue that you only get to keep em as long as you are subscribed but once you beat the game, chances are you aren't going back to it,

Obviously, its the smart decision by MS. They have a loyal, die hard fanbase that willingly will put up the money for Live. Also, a heavy focus on online multiplayer shooters (CoD, Halo, GoW) ensures that people will be hook on online play.

The hate Live gets is somewhat justified, to resume, as your competitors offer very similar services to their fans for free. Granted, whether Live is A LOT better than what Sony and Nintendo offers is debatable. Personally, I've played on Live and I haven't seen a giant difference as far as connection, lag, community, etc.



"Trick shot? The trick is NOT to get shot." - Lucian

Mr Puggsly said:

And Steam offers no option!

I gotta move Steam aside to get to Netflix. That's why I gave up on PC gaming.


Seriously? That's your justification?
So let me get this straight, you're happy to throw away a larger and superior game selection, better graphics, better controls, better framerates, cheaper prices on Games and DLC, convenience of all your games and mods in one place, automatic patching, arguably a higher bandwidth/lower latency network as it's not provided by just one company, more dedicated servers...

Not to mention the ability to give games to your friends, review games, big picture mode if you're using a Television, lots of free-to-play games, Pre-loading of pre-ordered games, available on multiple platforms, greenlight, screenshot functionality and probably a heap more, for just netflix? When you can still get Netflix just by double clicking an icon next to Steam? That's like, what 2 clicks? Not even 1 seconds worth of effort? Like, wouldn't even use a dozen calories?

Not to mention you can ADD a netflix shortcut into Steam which makes your ENTIRE argument completely redundant.

And more people use Steam than the amount of people that exist on Xbox Live! Gold, so higher player counts too.

If you want both Steam and Netflix on screen at the same time, look into a multi-monitor solution, PC gaming is easy and effortless, youtube and google which is the largest repository of information known to man-kind has all the answers you need if you ever run into issues, people should learn to use it to better themselves more often, rather than making up excuses.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

This will never get anywhere. Some people think it's worth the subscription fee, others think its not. Meanwhile, Microsoft will not stop charging for it because the latest financials show that it keeps making them money and people keep signing up for it. They will continue to add services and features though, gaming related and non gaming related, to make more people think it is worth the fee. It might be more likely that other companies will follow Microsoft's path than the other way around.



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J_Allard said:
VGKing said:
J_Allard said:
VGKing said:

*SIGH* You're hell bend on refuting every single thing I say aren't you?

By DIFFICULTY, I mean the 4-month waiting period and having to re-download the content so it can be played online.

Better?

Do you not like it when people refute your biased, factually incorrect posts? Then don't make them.

If I trolled into a PS+ thread and said "LOL ur ps+ games only work online and if u change consoles then guess what gotta pay again LOL", I would expect a number of people replying correcting me. And I wouldn't be surprised if people who actually use PS+ replied laughing at the idea that I can read stuff on the Internet and get the same level of expertise as someone who actually uses the service.

Doesn't apply to me though, since I love my PS3 and use PS+.

You seem intent to find something wrong with every single one of my posts. That last comment I made was intented to end this silly argument.

If you trolled anything I'd report you, I wouldn't argue with you.

You say that as if I am on a mission. I see a blue box where someone quoted me, your post is full of lulz, I respond correcting you.

You don't have to reply is there's nothing to say. Do you need to have the last word or something?

You are on a mission. A mission to find something wrong with everything I saw. I took my time writing this post to make sure it is flawless.



Hynad said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Zkuq said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Zkuq said:

And do you think Steam's Big Picture mode wouldn't work better if Steam was primarily meant for TVs? Besides, for what Steam is primarily meant for, it's very stable. If it was built for TVs from the beginning, you wouldn't experience those crashes. You saying Steam is bad because its TV mode crashes is like me saying XBL is bad because I can't use it on PC. Steam at least on the same level as a service on its primary platform compared to XBL yet it's free. Do you have anything to say about instead of circling around my point.

PC gaming in general can often be unstable compared to consoles. Not just big picture. Anyhow, I'm just pointing out consoles are more simple for the masses.

I don't think Steam is on the same level. Valve doesn't operate the servers for online gaming on 3rd party games. It doesn't offer Netflix either!

Yeah, can't argue about PCs being less stable than consoles. But let's not go there any further 'cause it's not important in this discussion. (In some other discussion it would be, though.)

I'm fairly sure servers for third-party games get shut down more often on XBL than on Steam. Does EA shut down servers for its games on XBL as well as PSN? And then there's the thing that console games commonly use p2p-based solutions instead of dedicated servers which leaves only matchmaking servers for MS to handle. And on PC, you generally don't see such shutting down servers happening because often it's the community that owns the servers and it has worked just fine for ages.  And about Netflix... Well, it's not included in the XLB subscription, is it? Well I mean it technically is but you still have to pay for it in addition to XBL which makes no sense at all.

I'm sure you aren't sure.

Come back to me when Steam offers as much services as Xbox Live. Until then, they aren't equal.

Ha ha. Do list those services you speak of.

Because most of the services on Live aren't offered by it. Live merely serves as an added gate before you have access to those third party services. For which you also have to subscribe to, on top of Gold. Which isn't the case on PSN, PC or Wii U.

Still means it offers them. There still had to be an app designed specifically for XBL in order for the service to work. It's no different than Verizon offering a wide selection of premium channels. They might not actually fund and cast and film the content but they pay to get it and design it into their product so that they have more to offer the consumer. And Live has the most.



VGKing said:

You don't have to reply is there's nothing to say. Do you need to have the last word or something?

You are on a mission. A mission to find something wrong with everything I saw. I took my time writing this post to make sure it is flawless.

See, another blue box where I need to correct you. No one is "on a mission". You make incorrect posts, they get corrected. If you don't like it, stop making incorrect posts.



J_Allard said:
Michael-5 said:

As a 360 ower, the hate is justified, especially because of the way the 360 is designed.

Before, the games which were free on Games for Windows, were also free on the 360. I played Lost Planet for free for over a year when I first got a 360. Plus social games in Halo 3 used to be free for silver members. Then these features got removed, thus reducing the quality of the XBL Silver experience to push people to go Gold.

The ability to play for free on games that were also on Games for Windows was announced as a limited time deal from day one. IIRC it was only supposed to go into the Fall of that year but they extended it and eventually ended it later than planned. Social games in Halo 3 were free on Silver weekends and free Gold weekends. Bungie used to have a lot of the Silver weekends where Silver members could play, but they eventually did it less and less because people would boost with throwaway accounts and eventually it just reverted to only being able to play. So these aren't really examples of MS "reducing the quality of Silver" or removing features. One was something always said to be a limited time promotion and the other was a developer related promotion that they stopped offering because Gold members were abusing it. And of course those promotions were to entice people to go Gold. Just like Sony offers free PS+ subscriptions to get people to subscribe, or free $10 PSN credits to entice people to spend money on the store.

Michael-5 said:

Plus a lot of achievements nowdays are designed so you have an XBL subscription, and that you play online continuously. Halo 4 limits which maps you can play Spartan Ops on, so you don't get all the achievements related to specific maps in one shot, and Gears of War 3 had an achievement which required you to play one game every weekend for 30 weekends (not straight).

Ontop of that XBLG does not give you a discount on overpriced DLC, and doesn't provide you with any better service then the old XBL Silver account.

Achievements have been incoporating MP elements more and more on both systems. And neither Sony or MS has control over these, they are up to the developer. You mention that Gears 3 30 weekend achievement, Twisted Metal on PS3 has a 30 days straight with a ranked win online trophy. Or for a non-Sony published example, I would have a Tomb Raider platinum on PS3 if it wasn't for MP trophies that require a lot of grinding. Injustice: Gods Among Us, same thing. I read you need to have over 200 online matches just to have a shot at all the online trophies. Yikes. But these have nothing to do with Live or PSN. It's just developers looking to get gamers to keep their games as much as possible. Live has the Gold Deal of the Week, which like any other sale can be hit or miss but it routinely includes full games as well as DLC.

Michael-5 said:

Plus I hate MS because they are so excessive about DLC. To get the full experience for Halo or Gears, you have to spend $30 extra on a seasons pass, making Halo a $90 game (plus XBLG). No game should cost that much! Forza too, Car map packs are charge $1 per car, and if you want to buy individual cars it could cost as much as $4, that is if the car is available.

Also, again, the way games are designed on 360, makes me hate MS even more. There is no Platinum Trophy on 360, instead you have a section where all your complete games go. However on 360, a game is complete when you get all the achievements, including those in DLC, so if you complete a game, it could suddenly go off your list of complete games with DLC. For PS3 you only need to get all the original trophy's for a platinum, DLC is optional.

So I really hate MS now, they try to steal so much of your money. I wouldn't mind if the quality was good, or if down the road DLC became free or cheap (like it did for Gears of War 1 and PGR 4 respectively), but it's not anymore. Forza: Horizons DLC is Rally mode, but it's not really rally, it's just rally cars on dirt tracks. DLC nowadays also never goes down in price, often times the DLC costs more then the game after just a year or two.

---

I like the way XBL was before 2009, recently MS has just gotten too greedy, and not been giving to the gamers.

Your entitled to your opinion but it seems like you just have an agenda with MS in general nowadays.

When you say but, that means that my opinion has no weight because of my agenda.

None of these are really complaints about XBL nor do they only apply to XBL.

All of them do

DLC is an industry-wide "issue". On PSN if I platinum a game and then DLC comes out, my 100% can then become a 60%.

You still have a Platinum Trophy to indicate that you completed the main game. Who cares that you have a 60%, you can still get 100% if you like, but you get recognition for completing everything pre-DLC.

I don't think Halo 3 just had "silver weekends" I played online, on weekdays, with a silver account. Halo 3 was playable day 1 online with a silver account, and that feature got removed, hence silver is reduced to push you to go gold.

360 gold deals are only available if you use your credit card. I don't trust anyone with a subscription service via credit card, I've had bad experiences with Rogers and stuff.

As for Games for Windows games being free, limited time thing or not, they still used to offer free online to silver members on XBL, and those games are still free to play on PC. How come someone with a PC version of Lost Planet gets to play for free, when a 360 user pays for it? They both use the same matchmaking service.

----

Who cares is PS3 exclusives have trophy's related to playing games for prolonged periods of time online. Online is free, so I have no problem with that. You mentioned that developers control achievements, but Halo and Gears of War are Microsoft IP's, MS has a lot of say in their achievements, and just comparing the new achievements in Halo 4/Gears 3, I feel weekly allowances of maps in spartan ops was a decision made by MS. Microsoft is designing games which require Gold subscriptions, stuff you can't unlock from a trail, and that's annoying. It makes the game more expensive to play and complete.

Another good example is that you can't get all the achievements in Halo Reach unless you buy a new copy of Halo: CEA. A used copy doesn't let you install the Reach map packs. , so you can't play a Reach specific game type and get the achievement from the Halo CEA game disk. Halo CEA is still a $40 game too....

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My issues with MS are how they market, or in my opinion butcher, their games and services. Silver features have been removed, XBLG "Deal of the Weeks" are usually crap, and not permanent, Microsoft published games tend to have as much DLC in price as the game itself, achievements from 1st party games specifically are designed to promote XBL services (e.g. Kinect, or XBLG Achievements) there is no pay as you go plan for XBL, or 1 month XBLG card (In Canada there isn't), and 3 month cards cost about 50% as much as a 12 month card, so it's really not worth it, etc.

Microsoft isn't what it used to be. Gears of War 1 had free map packs after a year, but Gears 2/3 have 4 map packs, and their price never goes down permanently. Yes a lot of 3rd party's do this too, but they never used to sell old DLC cheap, and DLC for identical games on steam are supper cheap. Why is that? MS charges devs to sell DLC on XBL, so they can never bring the price down too much without loosing money. Steam encourages permanent price cuts on DLC, but XBL does not.

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Plus you're ignoring the fact that paying for XBL means you're paying Microsoft for what 3rd party's bring. If CoD has dedicated servers, your XBL subscription fee isn't paying for that, it was your purchase of the game which paid for it. XBL hate is justified because you're paying for nothing, and there are no pay as you go, or alternative plans to the expensive $60 a year subscription.



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J_Allard said:
VGKing said:

You don't have to reply is there's nothing to say. Do you need to have the last word or something?

You are on a mission. A mission to find something wrong with everything I saw. I took my time writing this post to make sure it is flawless.

See, another blue box where I need to correct you. No one is "on a mission". You make incorrect posts, they get corrected. If you don't like it, stop making incorrect posts.

Are you done now?