J_Allard said:
Michael-5 said:
As a 360 ower, the hate is justified, especially because of the way the 360 is designed.
Before, the games which were free on Games for Windows, were also free on the 360. I played Lost Planet for free for over a year when I first got a 360. Plus social games in Halo 3 used to be free for silver members. Then these features got removed, thus reducing the quality of the XBL Silver experience to push people to go Gold.
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The ability to play for free on games that were also on Games for Windows was announced as a limited time deal from day one. IIRC it was only supposed to go into the Fall of that year but they extended it and eventually ended it later than planned. Social games in Halo 3 were free on Silver weekends and free Gold weekends. Bungie used to have a lot of the Silver weekends where Silver members could play, but they eventually did it less and less because people would boost with throwaway accounts and eventually it just reverted to only being able to play. So these aren't really examples of MS "reducing the quality of Silver" or removing features. One was something always said to be a limited time promotion and the other was a developer related promotion that they stopped offering because Gold members were abusing it. And of course those promotions were to entice people to go Gold. Just like Sony offers free PS+ subscriptions to get people to subscribe, or free $10 PSN credits to entice people to spend money on the store.
Michael-5 said:
Plus a lot of achievements nowdays are designed so you have an XBL subscription, and that you play online continuously. Halo 4 limits which maps you can play Spartan Ops on, so you don't get all the achievements related to specific maps in one shot, and Gears of War 3 had an achievement which required you to play one game every weekend for 30 weekends (not straight).
Ontop of that XBLG does not give you a discount on overpriced DLC, and doesn't provide you with any better service then the old XBL Silver account.
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Achievements have been incoporating MP elements more and more on both systems. And neither Sony or MS has control over these, they are up to the developer. You mention that Gears 3 30 weekend achievement, Twisted Metal on PS3 has a 30 days straight with a ranked win online trophy. Or for a non-Sony published example, I would have a Tomb Raider platinum on PS3 if it wasn't for MP trophies that require a lot of grinding. Injustice: Gods Among Us, same thing. I read you need to have over 200 online matches just to have a shot at all the online trophies. Yikes. But these have nothing to do with Live or PSN. It's just developers looking to get gamers to keep their games as much as possible. Live has the Gold Deal of the Week, which like any other sale can be hit or miss but it routinely includes full games as well as DLC.
Michael-5 said:
Plus I hate MS because they are so excessive about DLC. To get the full experience for Halo or Gears, you have to spend $30 extra on a seasons pass, making Halo a $90 game (plus XBLG). No game should cost that much! Forza too, Car map packs are charge $1 per car, and if you want to buy individual cars it could cost as much as $4, that is if the car is available.
Also, again, the way games are designed on 360, makes me hate MS even more. There is no Platinum Trophy on 360, instead you have a section where all your complete games go. However on 360, a game is complete when you get all the achievements, including those in DLC, so if you complete a game, it could suddenly go off your list of complete games with DLC. For PS3 you only need to get all the original trophy's for a platinum, DLC is optional.
So I really hate MS now, they try to steal so much of your money. I wouldn't mind if the quality was good, or if down the road DLC became free or cheap (like it did for Gears of War 1 and PGR 4 respectively), but it's not anymore. Forza: Horizons DLC is Rally mode, but it's not really rally, it's just rally cars on dirt tracks. DLC nowadays also never goes down in price, often times the DLC costs more then the game after just a year or two.
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I like the way XBL was before 2009, recently MS has just gotten too greedy, and not been giving to the gamers.
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Your entitled to your opinion but it seems like you just have an agenda with MS in general nowadays.
When you say but, that means that my opinion has no weight because of my agenda.
None of these are really complaints about XBL nor do they only apply to XBL.
All of them do
DLC is an industry-wide "issue". On PSN if I platinum a game and then DLC comes out, my 100% can then become a 60%.
You still have a Platinum Trophy to indicate that you completed the main game. Who cares that you have a 60%, you can still get 100% if you like, but you get recognition for completing everything pre-DLC.
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I don't think Halo 3 just had "silver weekends" I played online, on weekdays, with a silver account. Halo 3 was playable day 1 online with a silver account, and that feature got removed, hence silver is reduced to push you to go gold.
360 gold deals are only available if you use your credit card. I don't trust anyone with a subscription service via credit card, I've had bad experiences with Rogers and stuff.
As for Games for Windows games being free, limited time thing or not, they still used to offer free online to silver members on XBL, and those games are still free to play on PC. How come someone with a PC version of Lost Planet gets to play for free, when a 360 user pays for it? They both use the same matchmaking service.
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Who cares is PS3 exclusives have trophy's related to playing games for prolonged periods of time online. Online is free, so I have no problem with that. You mentioned that developers control achievements, but Halo and Gears of War are Microsoft IP's, MS has a lot of say in their achievements, and just comparing the new achievements in Halo 4/Gears 3, I feel weekly allowances of maps in spartan ops was a decision made by MS. Microsoft is designing games which require Gold subscriptions, stuff you can't unlock from a trail, and that's annoying. It makes the game more expensive to play and complete.
Another good example is that you can't get all the achievements in Halo Reach unless you buy a new copy of Halo: CEA. A used copy doesn't let you install the Reach map packs. , so you can't play a Reach specific game type and get the achievement from the Halo CEA game disk. Halo CEA is still a $40 game too....
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My issues with MS are how they market, or in my opinion butcher, their games and services. Silver features have been removed, XBLG "Deal of the Weeks" are usually crap, and not permanent, Microsoft published games tend to have as much DLC in price as the game itself, achievements from 1st party games specifically are designed to promote XBL services (e.g. Kinect, or XBLG Achievements) there is no pay as you go plan for XBL, or 1 month XBLG card (In Canada there isn't), and 3 month cards cost about 50% as much as a 12 month card, so it's really not worth it, etc.
Microsoft isn't what it used to be. Gears of War 1 had free map packs after a year, but Gears 2/3 have 4 map packs, and their price never goes down permanently. Yes a lot of 3rd party's do this too, but they never used to sell old DLC cheap, and DLC for identical games on steam are supper cheap. Why is that? MS charges devs to sell DLC on XBL, so they can never bring the price down too much without loosing money. Steam encourages permanent price cuts on DLC, but XBL does not.
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Plus you're ignoring the fact that paying for XBL means you're paying Microsoft for what 3rd party's bring. If CoD has dedicated servers, your XBL subscription fee isn't paying for that, it was your purchase of the game which paid for it. XBL hate is justified because you're paying for nothing, and there are no pay as you go, or alternative plans to the expensive $60 a year subscription.