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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 720 will Decide if WiiU RAM is enough.

happydolphin on 16 April 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
RazorDragon said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

I was right when I said 8gb of ram for next gen consoles and i'll be right again. I cant wait to win this and the major difference between our arguments is I actually listen to what devs say. Now I can stop talking.

My stipulation is that on your sig the loser must say I lost a bet that the Wii U would/wouldn't get third party support. So and so was correct. Deal?

 

 

PS4's GPU has 1154 compute cores compared to 320 cores in the Wii U (PS4 = 18 CU, 1 CU = 64 cores)

but when you factor in:

-almost 4 times the physical amount of cores

-roughly (14x) FOURTEEN TIMES the memory bandwidth

-7 times the ACTUAL physical memory (7gb for games, vs 1gb)

-the fact that those 1154 PS4 cores are likely GCN2 cores, while the Wii U's 320 are based on a core architecture from 2008, 

-cores are clocked faster (800mhz vs 550mhz) EDIT: Fixed.

-Oh, and the Wii U's CPU cores are the same architecture as the Wii, which was the same as the Gamecube.  Wii U is directly using the same CPU cores as the Wii and Gamecube, just using MORE of them and clocked higher.  This architecture was created in 1999 

 


Current top PC games like Crysis 3 can target as low as a GT 520 and Pentium Dual Core to as high as a GTX 680 and a i7 2600k to run at the maximum settings.

GTX 680 has 1536 shader units. GT 520 has 48.

Bandwidth-wise, the difference between a GTX 680(192.3 GB/s) and a GT 520(14.4GB/s) is similar Wii U/PS4 difference. However, that's not counting the 32MB of EDRAM that Wii U has, which should greatly improve bandwidth based on the results shown with Wii U games looking better than PS3/360 despite the bandwidth being seemingly slower than both.

RAM doesn't actually matter. Wii U won't be able to use textures or shadows with a resolution as high as PS4, so the RAM requirement will be much lower. Also, you can expect no PS4 game using more than 4GB to graphics, as it's GPU isn't high-end enough to use textures and shadows with a resolution able to fill out 7GBs during a real time gameplay. You can expect the extra RAM in PS4 being used to remove loading times and pop-in.

Core clock is irrelevant because architectures are different.

Wii U's CPU isn't a Broadway core overclocked, it's a new tri-core CPU based on the PPC 750 architecture. The efficiency of Wii U's CPU alone shows that it can't be three Wii CPU's overclocked and duct-taped together.


The Wii U is not impressive at all specs-wise ....stop trying to sell it. Its last gen tech with next gen ideals so lets see Nintendo prove that to us shall we?

What a lame post. Why are you assuming he's trying to sell it... He has a point he wants to make and he's making it.

Seriously, new lows.



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Zero999 on 16 April 2013
happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
RazorDragon said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

I was right when I said 8gb of ram for next gen consoles and i'll be right again. I cant wait to win this and the major difference between our arguments is I actually listen to what devs say. Now I can stop talking.

My stipulation is that on your sig the loser must say I lost a bet that the Wii U would/wouldn't get third party support. So and so was correct. Deal?

 

 

PS4's GPU has 1154 compute cores compared to 320 cores in the Wii U (PS4 = 18 CU, 1 CU = 64 cores)

but when you factor in:

-almost 4 times the physical amount of cores

-roughly (14x) FOURTEEN TIMES the memory bandwidth

-7 times the ACTUAL physical memory (7gb for games, vs 1gb)

-the fact that those 1154 PS4 cores are likely GCN2 cores, while the Wii U's 320 are based on a core architecture from 2008, 

-cores are clocked faster (800mhz vs 550mhz) EDIT: Fixed.

-Oh, and the Wii U's CPU cores are the same architecture as the Wii, which was the same as the Gamecube.  Wii U is directly using the same CPU cores as the Wii and Gamecube, just using MORE of them and clocked higher.  This architecture was created in 1999 

 


Current top PC games like Crysis 3 can target as low as a GT 520 and Pentium Dual Core to as high as a GTX 680 and a i7 2600k to run at the maximum settings.

GTX 680 has 1536 shader units. GT 520 has 48.

Bandwidth-wise, the difference between a GTX 680(192.3 GB/s) and a GT 520(14.4GB/s) is similar Wii U/PS4 difference. However, that's not counting the 32MB of EDRAM that Wii U has, which should greatly improve bandwidth based on the results shown with Wii U games looking better than PS3/360 despite the bandwidth being seemingly slower than both.

RAM doesn't actually matter. Wii U won't be able to use textures or shadows with a resolution as high as PS4, so the RAM requirement will be much lower. Also, you can expect no PS4 game using more than 4GB to graphics, as it's GPU isn't high-end enough to use textures and shadows with a resolution able to fill out 7GBs during a real time gameplay. You can expect the extra RAM in PS4 being used to remove loading times and pop-in.

Core clock is irrelevant because architectures are different.

Wii U's CPU isn't a Broadway core overclocked, it's a new tri-core CPU based on the PPC 750 architecture. The efficiency of Wii U's CPU alone shows that it can't be three Wii CPU's overclocked and duct-taped together.


The Wii U is not impressive at all specs-wise ....stop trying to sell it. Its last gen tech with next gen ideals so lets see Nintendo prove that to us shall we?

What a lame post. Why are you assuming he's trying to sell it... He has a point he wants to make and he's making it.

Seriously, new lows.

give up dude, you can't argue with a hater.



Otakumegane on 16 April 2013

Can't wait to see eventual implosion of dev costs.



http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/profile/92109/nintendopie/ Nintendopie  Was obviously right and I was obviously wrong. I will forever be a lesser being than them. (6/16/13)

happydolphin on 16 April 2013

@ all the stupid posts about how the U can't do this and that and that... read this article:
http://playeressence.com/the-wii-u-might-be-getting-more-3rd-party-support-than-you-think/



Pemalite on 16 April 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:


The Wii U is not impressive at all specs-wise ....stop trying to sell it. Its last gen tech with next gen ideals so lets see Nintendo prove that to us shall we?


You are correct, the Wii U and PS4 aren't impressive specs-wise.
However, you forget that the Wii U's graphics chip (The thing that influences image quality the most) is still significantly more efficient and capable than what is found in the PS3 and Xbox 360.
It's still a slow graphics chip by modern standards however and will still be signifcantly slower than what's in the PS4, but the concensus that the Wii U is graphically no better than the Xbox and PS3 is ludicrous, if only the Xbox 360 and PS3 games looked that good at launch, give it time for developers to get around the nuances of the hardware and then see what happens.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Captain_Tom on 16 April 2013
Zero999 said:
Captain_Tom said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
Just to clarify, rumors state that 720 will have 4 gig for games and 4 gig for "other stuff", not just the OS. There is a lot of speculation that 720 will be doing lots of things beyond games. The OS could use up 2 gig, while skype, your cable feed and DVR, your always on connection and other features could be using up system memory while 4 gig is blocked off for games. This is all speculation on rumor, of course.

The point is, if games are designed to run on 4 gig of memory, it's not a crazy stretch to say they can run on 1 gig or so. Whether 3rd parties support Nintendo is a whole other matter.


YES IT IS!  4 =/= 1 !  It's like some of you don't even realize how rediculous you sound.  It would take at least 2.5 GB pf Ram to even try to run next gen games.  Not to mention you would need a GPU stronger than a cut down HD 6570 + 1.24 GHz Xbox 360 CPU to even use that much!  Nintendo massively dropped the ball in performance yet again!

bolded: say facts not random sh*t you invented. also, have you ever heard of a little something called scalability? drop resolution from 1080p to 720p and reduce some effects here and there and omg, it's totally runing on wii u. i just don't understand haters, they're alreaddy not going to buy wii u, why keep wishing it does'nt get suport?


It's not as simple as 1080p to 720p + effects when you go from 3072MB of VRAM to 384MB.  That is 8 times less room.  You can't scale that!



ishiki on 16 April 2013
Captain_Tom said:
Zero999 said:
Captain_Tom said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
Just to clarify, rumors state that 720 will have 4 gig for games and 4 gig for "other stuff", not just the OS. There is a lot of speculation that 720 will be doing lots of things beyond games. The OS could use up 2 gig, while skype, your cable feed and DVR, your always on connection and other features could be using up system memory while 4 gig is blocked off for games. This is all speculation on rumor, of course.

The point is, if games are designed to run on 4 gig of memory, it's not a crazy stretch to say they can run on 1 gig or so. Whether 3rd parties support Nintendo is a whole other matter.


YES IT IS!  4 =/= 1 !  It's like some of you don't even realize how rediculous you sound.  It would take at least 2.5 GB pf Ram to even try to run next gen games.  Not to mention you would need a GPU stronger than a cut down HD 6570 + 1.24 GHz Xbox 360 CPU to even use that much!  Nintendo massively dropped the ball in performance yet again!

bolded: say facts not random sh*t you invented. also, have you ever heard of a little something called scalability? drop resolution from 1080p to 720p and reduce some effects here and there and omg, it's totally runing on wii u. i just don't understand haters, they're alreaddy not going to buy wii u, why keep wishing it does'nt get suport?


It's not as simple as 1080p to 720p + effects when you go from 3072MB of VRAM to 384MB.  That is 8 times less room.  You can't scale that!

You can reduce the textures resolution, output resolution, and antialiasing this reduces VRAM usage significantly. for instance bioshock infinite on pc uses around 2400mb of VRAM on pc. It obviously doesn't use that much on console. This argument is more complicated than this, because the PC version is like an enhanced console version. Whereas A PS4-->Wiiu would be gimping, not enhancing the main version. it does show in certain circumstances you can cut VRAM usage significantly.

System ram on top of VRAM is more difficult to scale to.  I'm not going to comment on what is/is not possible in regards to the Wii-u



S.T.A.G.E. on 17 April 2013
happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Most of the games on tablets using UE4 will be exclusive and the rights will be paid for by third party. Multiplats that use UE4 will most likely be PS4/720/PC. Rains said the PS4 runs like a PC so it shouldnt hinder multiplat performance. The only platform that would significantly hurt multiplatform shifts would be the Wii U because its severely underpowered.

Okay, but it was my understanding that games were scalable to tablets. So if they wanted to they could take PS4/XB3/PC games and scale them down to tablets and make easy ports to the weaker platforms (bar U). I'm not sure how you're claiming this, because I didn't read that. A source would be nice.


Multiplats wont get ported to tablet unless they are indy games. Theres no way with the size fo the games next gen will demand.



S.T.A.G.E. on 17 April 2013
Pemalite said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


The Wii U is not impressive at all specs-wise ....stop trying to sell it. Its last gen tech with next gen ideals so lets see Nintendo prove that to us shall we?


You are correct, the Wii U and PS4 aren't impressive specs-wise.
However, you forget that the Wii U's graphics chip (The thing that influences image quality the most) is still significantly more efficient and capable than what is found in the PS3 and Xbox 360.
It's still a slow graphics chip by modern standards however and will still be signifcantly slower than what's in the PS4, but the concensus that the Wii U is graphically no better than the Xbox and PS3 is ludicrous, if only the Xbox 360 and PS3 games looked that good at launch, give it time for developers to get around the nuances of the hardware and then see what happens.


 The PS4 is impressive....for a console. No one asked for anymore than for a well made console that could push tech in the next generation. I am not talking about a customizable PC, but rather a console that is powerful enoguh to enjoy great games that have high expectations.



z101 on 17 April 2013

The Wii U will never receive the Third-Party support the PS3&Xbox360 had. The competition with Nintendo games is difficult to handle for some Thirds.

But the Third-Party support for the Wii U is already much better than for the old Wii.



Things I like: Magic-Alchemist - The magic iPhone, Android and browser game:

www.magic-alchemist.com/

List of Nintendo Switch games (german):
http://www.zimmer101.de/nintendo-switch-spiele/