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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 720 will Decide if WiiU RAM is enough.

VGKing said:

If UE4 is ever supported, it will be to used for CONSOLE GAMES. Specfically PS4/720 games. Porting these games down WILL bring performance issues to Wii U.

Simple question, would it bring performance issues on tablets? Because it is being ported to the tablet platforms.



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happydolphin said:
VGKing said:

This has been discussed to death. UE4 doesn't support Wii U. Plains and simple.
If someone decides to put in the work to make UE4 Wii U compatible, that's a discussion for a different day.

No, you didn't follow the thread.

Rafux was telling me that companies won't waste their time downscaling to the U due to performance reasons, and I think that's BS because right now UE4 is downscalable to TABLETS.

At the end of the day devs can downport a game to a PS2 if they want to but it will look and play way too diferent from they original vision and it will bomb for that reason just look at Dead Rising Wii which had like 6 zombies per level, WiiU is too weak to handle a decent port of future next gen games (late 2014 titles) they will look and play too diferent from the original.

And UE4 for tablets its not the same as UE4 for consoles and PC, yes they can downscale and re use assets but it won't be the same just look at UE3 versions of games for tablets like Dead Space, looked great for a phone but it wasn't the same, Infinity Blade looks like a PS3 game but it plays like an iphone game is quite obvious that the limited scope of the enviroment and gameplay made those incredible graphics posible.

Edit: I meant enviroment



happydolphin said:
VGKing said:

If UE4 is ever supported, it will be to used for CONSOLE GAMES. Specfically PS4/720 games. Porting these games down WILL bring performance issues to Wii U.

Simple question, would it bring performance issues on tablets? Because it is being ported to the tablet platforms.

Of course it would bring performance issues. An UE4 game developed for console would never make it to tablets for that very reason.



When you consider Microsoft's entire reason for entering the console business in the first place, when you consider the possibility of the 360 acting as stepping stone for finally bringing so many of us over to PC (Windows in particular) in the first place was all by design, then you can't help but consider the possibity that the 720 being designed to keep the Wii U in the game is by design as well.



happydolphin said:
VGKing said:

If UE4 is ever supported, it will be to used for CONSOLE GAMES. Specfically PS4/720 games. Porting these games down WILL bring performance issues to Wii U.

Simple question, would it bring performance issues on tablets? Because it is being ported to the tablet platforms.


Most of the games on tablets using UE4 will be exclusive and the rights will be paid for by third party. Multiplats that use UE4 will most likely be PS4/720/PC. Rains said the PS4 runs like a PC so it shouldnt hinder multiplat performance. The only platform that would significantly hurt multiplatform shifts would be the Wii U because its severely underpowered.



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DietSoap said:

When you consider Microsoft's entire reason for entering the console business in the first place, when you consider the possibility of the 360 acting as stepping stone for finally bringing so many of us over to PC (Windows in particular) in the first place was all by design, then you can't help but consider the possibity that the 720 being designed to keep the Wii U in the game is by design as well.


So what you are saying is: 

MS created the Xbox 360 as a stepping stone to convince the market to use Windows 7. And now they are going to deliberatly gimp the 720 and take the ram out, to close the gap between PS4 and Wii U, and thus enable Nintendo to be a more relevant option for 3rd party games in the future, in order to complete their primary mission to keep Sony down ? 

 

I think I am going to sleep now....



S.T.A.G.E. said:

I was right when I said 8gb of ram for next gen consoles and i'll be right again. I cant wait to win this and the major difference between our arguments is I actually listen to what devs say. Now I can stop talking.

My stipulation is that on your sig the loser must say I lost a bet that the Wii U would/wouldn't get third party support. So and so was correct. Deal?

 

 

PS4's GPU has 1154 compute cores compared to 320 cores in the Wii U (PS4 = 18 CU, 1 CU = 64 cores)

but when you factor in:

-almost 4 times the physical amount of cores

-roughly (14x) FOURTEEN TIMES the memory bandwidth

-7 times the ACTUAL physical memory (7gb for games, vs 1gb)

-the fact that those 1154 PS4 cores are likely GCN2 cores, while the Wii U's 320 are based on a core architecture from 2008, 

-cores are clocked faster (800mhz vs 550mhz) EDIT: Fixed.

-Oh, and the Wii U's CPU cores are the same architecture as the Wii, which was the same as the Gamecube.  Wii U is directly using the same CPU cores as the Wii and Gamecube, just using MORE of them and clocked higher.  This architecture was created in 1999 

 


Current top PC games like Crysis 3 can target as low as a GT 520 and Pentium Dual Core to as high as a GTX 680 and a i7 2600k to run at the maximum settings.

GTX 680 has 1536 shader units. GT 520 has 48.

Bandwidth-wise, the difference between a GTX 680(192.3 GB/s) and a GT 520(14.4GB/s) is similar Wii U/PS4 difference. However, that's not counting the 32MB of EDRAM that Wii U has, which should greatly improve bandwidth based on the results shown with Wii U games looking better than PS3/360 despite the bandwidth being seemingly slower than both.

RAM doesn't actually matter. Wii U won't be able to use textures or shadows with a resolution as high as PS4, so the RAM requirement will be much lower. Also, you can expect no PS4 game using more than 4GB to graphics, as it's GPU isn't high-end enough to use textures and shadows with a resolution able to fill out 7GBs during a real time gameplay. You can expect the extra RAM in PS4 being used to remove loading times and pop-in.

Core clock is irrelevant because architectures are different.

Wii U's CPU isn't a Broadway core overclocked, it's a new tri-core CPU based on the PPC 750 architecture. The efficiency of Wii U's CPU alone shows that it can't be three Wii CPU's overclocked and duct-taped together.



RazorDragon said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

I was right when I said 8gb of ram for next gen consoles and i'll be right again. I cant wait to win this and the major difference between our arguments is I actually listen to what devs say. Now I can stop talking.

My stipulation is that on your sig the loser must say I lost a bet that the Wii U would/wouldn't get third party support. So and so was correct. Deal?

 

 

PS4's GPU has 1154 compute cores compared to 320 cores in the Wii U (PS4 = 18 CU, 1 CU = 64 cores)

but when you factor in:

-almost 4 times the physical amount of cores

-roughly (14x) FOURTEEN TIMES the memory bandwidth

-7 times the ACTUAL physical memory (7gb for games, vs 1gb)

-the fact that those 1154 PS4 cores are likely GCN2 cores, while the Wii U's 320 are based on a core architecture from 2008, 

-cores are clocked faster (800mhz vs 550mhz) EDIT: Fixed.

-Oh, and the Wii U's CPU cores are the same architecture as the Wii, which was the same as the Gamecube.  Wii U is directly using the same CPU cores as the Wii and Gamecube, just using MORE of them and clocked higher.  This architecture was created in 1999 

 


Current top PC games like Crysis 3 can target as low as a GT 520 and Pentium Dual Core to as high as a GTX 680 and a i7 2600k to run at the maximum settings.

GTX 680 has 1536 shader units. GT 520 has 48.

Bandwidth-wise, the difference between a GTX 680(192.3 GB/s) and a GT 520(14.4GB/s) is similar Wii U/PS4 difference. However, that's not counting the 32MB of EDRAM that Wii U has, which should greatly improve bandwidth based on the results shown with Wii U games looking better than PS3/360 despite the bandwidth being seemingly slower than both.

RAM doesn't actually matter. Wii U won't be able to use textures or shadows with a resolution as high as PS4, so the RAM requirement will be much lower. Also, you can expect no PS4 game using more than 4GB to graphics, as it's GPU isn't high-end enough to use textures and shadows with a resolution able to fill out 7GBs during a real time gameplay. You can expect the extra RAM in PS4 being used to remove loading times and pop-in.

Core clock is irrelevant because architectures are different.

Wii U's CPU isn't a Broadway core overclocked, it's a new tri-core CPU based on the PPC 750 architecture. The efficiency of Wii U's CPU alone shows that it can't be three Wii CPU's overclocked and duct-taped together.


The Wii U is not impressive at all specs-wise ....stop trying to sell it. Its last gen tech with next gen ideals so lets see Nintendo prove that to us shall we?



S.T.A.G.E. said:

Most of the games on tablets using UE4 will be exclusive and the rights will be paid for by third party. Multiplats that use UE4 will most likely be PS4/720/PC. Rains said the PS4 runs like a PC so it shouldnt hinder multiplat performance. The only platform that would significantly hurt multiplatform shifts would be the Wii U because its severely underpowered.

Okay, but it was my understanding that games were scalable to tablets. So if they wanted to they could take PS4/XB3/PC games and scale them down to tablets and make easy ports to the weaker platforms (bar U). I'm not sure how you're claiming this, because I didn't read that. A source would be nice.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
RazorDragon said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

I was right when I said 8gb of ram for next gen consoles and i'll be right again. I cant wait to win this and the major difference between our arguments is I actually listen to what devs say. Now I can stop talking.

My stipulation is that on your sig the loser must say I lost a bet that the Wii U would/wouldn't get third party support. So and so was correct. Deal?

 

 

PS4's GPU has 1154 compute cores compared to 320 cores in the Wii U (PS4 = 18 CU, 1 CU = 64 cores)

but when you factor in:

-almost 4 times the physical amount of cores

-roughly (14x) FOURTEEN TIMES the memory bandwidth

-7 times the ACTUAL physical memory (7gb for games, vs 1gb)

-the fact that those 1154 PS4 cores are likely GCN2 cores, while the Wii U's 320 are based on a core architecture from 2008, 

-cores are clocked faster (800mhz vs 550mhz) EDIT: Fixed.

-Oh, and the Wii U's CPU cores are the same architecture as the Wii, which was the same as the Gamecube.  Wii U is directly using the same CPU cores as the Wii and Gamecube, just using MORE of them and clocked higher.  This architecture was created in 1999 

 


Current top PC games like Crysis 3 can target as low as a GT 520 and Pentium Dual Core to as high as a GTX 680 and a i7 2600k to run at the maximum settings.

GTX 680 has 1536 shader units. GT 520 has 48.

Bandwidth-wise, the difference between a GTX 680(192.3 GB/s) and a GT 520(14.4GB/s) is similar Wii U/PS4 difference. However, that's not counting the 32MB of EDRAM that Wii U has, which should greatly improve bandwidth based on the results shown with Wii U games looking better than PS3/360 despite the bandwidth being seemingly slower than both.

RAM doesn't actually matter. Wii U won't be able to use textures or shadows with a resolution as high as PS4, so the RAM requirement will be much lower. Also, you can expect no PS4 game using more than 4GB to graphics, as it's GPU isn't high-end enough to use textures and shadows with a resolution able to fill out 7GBs during a real time gameplay. You can expect the extra RAM in PS4 being used to remove loading times and pop-in.

Core clock is irrelevant because architectures are different.

Wii U's CPU isn't a Broadway core overclocked, it's a new tri-core CPU based on the PPC 750 architecture. The efficiency of Wii U's CPU alone shows that it can't be three Wii CPU's overclocked and duct-taped together.


The Wii U is not impressive at all specs-wise ....stop trying to sell it. Its last gen tech with next gen ideals so lets see Nintendo prove that to us shall we?


I never said it was impressive or tried to sell it. Also, your definition of last gen tech is incorrect. If it really was last gen tech, it would be drawing more than the  ~70W that current PS3 and Xbox 360 models draw. However, it uses only 32W during load and offers better performance than both of these consoles while being made at the same 40/45nm process. Current-gen tech has better efficiency thanks to newer architectures. It's the same as comparing new Atom processors that offer little performance improvement when compared to old Core 2 Duos but consume ~70% less power and, based on the performance alone, saying that the Atom processor is last gen tech. Better energy efficiency is one of the improvements that current and next-gen technology offers when compared to last-gen tech, it's not just about increasing the raw performance.

Anyway, I was just showing that your point doesn't tell the whole truth. Current top PC games have a bigger difference between hardware requirements than the difference Wii U has to PS4.