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Forums - Politics Discussion - Farewell Democracy?

Mr Khan said:

The other difference is that i hold onto the idea that things can be fixed. Government can be slim and efficacious (similar to the New Democrats' mantra from the 90s). Regulations need to be streamlined without actually being defanged; a leaner, meaner government that's only there to stop public bads from accumulating due to personal actions, and not actually play favorites with various industries or interfere in folks' personal lives (except where their personal lives are outwardly harmful).

Modernization is always going to be chaotic, but you never really see the benefits of modernization spread until the regulatory body steps in, like in America, where the gilded age of the late 19th century was followed by the universal prosperity of the 20th with the help of a growing regulatory docket. Obviously overreaction is going to be counter-productive (to speak nothing of the inherent systemic flaws of outright Communism), but reaction needs to be there. Free markets will always be taken advantage of by the unscrupulous, leading to widespread misery.

That's an awful lot of faith in something that has never happened and will never happen due to the perverse incentives that drive government to relentlessly expand itself. No regulatory agency (or any other department) is ever going to voluntarily downsize because if you're the head of that agency, you don't make your career by making your agency less important. So if allowing corporations any sort of political voice or legal redress is this absurdly controversial, where does the impetus come from to ever streamline the regulatory environment?

Governments will always be wasteful, they will always play favorites, and they will always interfere with personal lives because the entire scheme is predicated on coercion. The apparently terrifying free market is not. Expecting the former to protect you from the latter seems incredibly backwards.



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Mr Khan said:
The other difference is that i hold onto the idea that things can be fixed. Government can be slim and efficacious (similar to the New Democrats' mantra from the 90s). Regulations need to be streamlined without actually being defanged; a leaner, meaner government that's only there to stop public bads from accumulating due to personal actions, and not actually play favorites with various industries or interfere in folks' personal lives (except where their personal lives are outwardly harmful).

Modernization is always going to be chaotic, but you never really see the benefits of modernization spread until the regulatory body steps in, like in America, where the gilded age of the late 19th century was followed by the universal prosperity of the 20th with the help of a growing regulatory docket. Obviously overreaction is going to be counter-productive (to speak nothing of the inherent systemic flaws of outright Communism), but reaction needs to be there. Free markets will always be taken advantage of by the unscrupulous, leading to widespread misery.

The only real reason people see corporations as evil now more than before is because of the economy. We ordinary people are losing our houses, jobs, everything... while they get more and more profit. It frustrates people, it frustrates me. But, it the big flaws of capitalism like widening inequality and unemployment that only become obvious in recession. If the "free" market was thinking of long term profit rather than the quickest buck it can make, i'm sure things would be fine. It don't help when government seemingly encourage such short term profit through tax cuts and deregulation (especially during Reagan's and Bush Jr's terms). A certain level of governance is necessary at home, through tax rates, regulation and even nationalisation for some key industries. What Obama (and most modern leaders) are doing won't help the economy. This bill would make cause monopolies such as Monsanto to happen more often rather than create free trade and remove necessary regulation key to our quality of life. 



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

the2real4mafol said:
slowmo said:
Hilarious that you all think democracy still exists. The illusion of choice works wonders, maybe one day the public will wake up.

How do you think alot of these Arabs and Africans will feel when they find out "democracy" can be like this? It's something they are still fighting for. But, i don't even know how America is "land of the free" anymore, it favours one class or group of people over another and people can't change it with democrats or republicans. I don't even know how countries like the UK or USA are considered democratic when they are 2 party states. Countries like Italy and Israel are closer to being true democracies despite struggling to form coalitions.

The problem is what alternative is there to this democracy, i guess anarchy is the only option now as people don't want dictatorships anymore.  

 

That my friend is a very good question.  Unfortunately any policies that might be put in place are controlled by the governments but given they are in it for their own gains they aren't likely to make big strides towards creating more diverse politics.  I'll be honest and say right now that sovereign rule looks more appealing, at least you have someone at the top of the tree to accept the blame rather than a bunch of lying pigs out to deflect the blame onto others and dare I say back to the poor public mugged into voting for them. 

The only choice you make is who gets to line their pockets for the next few years, it really is depressing for me.  I vote because I hate to see my "right" wasted but I really do feel its pointless now.

 

Just to highlight a personal annoyance of mine in the UK.  We have serious budget defecit issues yet our goverments all do very little to tackle some of the more obvious route causes of public spending increases.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise more people are leaching benefits from the state than ever before but little is done to solve the reasons for this.  Sure the governments pretend they will act tough and take benefits from people but they aren't actually solving any of the reasons why we are at this point.  Wages are too low, cost of living is too high, we have more broken families producing more single parents dependent upon the state.  Stupid EU policies have driven up costs for employers making them less likely to employee people.  The list goes on and on but the government will never tackle these difficult issues as they might lose votes.  Instead we'll whine about climate change and talk about changes that make bugger all difference.



slowmo said:
the2real4mafol said:
slowmo said:
Hilarious that you all think democracy still exists. The illusion of choice works wonders, maybe one day the public will wake up.

How do you think alot of these Arabs and Africans will feel when they find out "democracy" can be like this? It's something they are still fighting for. But, i don't even know how America is "land of the free" anymore, it favours one class or group of people over another and people can't change it with democrats or republicans. I don't even know how countries like the UK or USA are considered democratic when they are 2 party states. Countries like Italy and Israel are closer to being true democracies despite struggling to form coalitions.

The problem is what alternative is there to this democracy, i guess anarchy is the only option now as people don't want dictatorships anymore.  

 

That my friend is a very good question.  Unfortunately any policies that might be put in place are controlled by the governments but given they are in it for their own gains they aren't likely to make big strides towards creating more diverse politics.  I'll be honest and say right now that sovereign rule looks more appealing, at least you have someone at the top of the tree to accept the blame rather than a bunch of lying pigs out to deflect the blame onto others and dare I say back to the poor public mugged into voting for them. 

The only choice you make is who gets to line their pockets for the next few years, it really is depressing for me.  I vote because I hate to see my "right" wasted but I really do feel its pointless now.

 

Just to highlight a personal annoyance of mine in the UK.  We have serious budget defecit issues yet our goverments all do very little to tackle some of the more obvious route causes of public spending increases.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise more people are leaching benefits from the state than ever before but little is done to solve the reasons for this.  Sure the governments pretend they will act tough and take benefits from people but they aren't actually solving any of the reasons why we are at this point.  Wages are too low, cost of living is too high, we have more broken families producing more single parents dependent upon the state.  Stupid EU policies have driven up costs for employers making them less likely to employee people.  The list goes on and on but the government will never tackle these difficult issues as they might lose votes.  Instead we'll whine about climate change and talk about changes that make bugger all difference.

The only real way to get noticed is to protest and that isn't guarenteed to work. I'm now old enough to vote but not sure if to bother in 2015, we all know Labour will win and i'm not sure if they are better than the current coalition (cons and fid dems). Our government are cutting the wrong areas and too quickly and they obviously favour the rich with that tax cut! Why do people vote for them?! Politicians can do amazing things for their nation if forgot the stupid shit in their ideologies. Not only is there the issue of fraud from benefit "scoundrels" (as you said wages are too low here) but it's really the issue of tax avoidance from the rich and numerous companies that is the problem. Remember Amazon, Starbucks etc. That's barely scratching the surface. Most companies avoid their tax, but MP's let it slide. That's abig part of the problem. Wasteful council spending is another but also high levels of immigration into the South East over the past 10 years. It's all built up into this economic fireball. People can make a real difference if they overcome their self interests. We the British have alot of problems, no simple solution could fix but it would help if we had MP's who understood everyday life and not be born with a golden spoon in their mouths!



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

A corporation (including every employee) is - and am being completely serious- legally A PERSON. except that corporations can never dies.



Check the link below. (note to Admins: it's not really porn please don't ban me!)

 

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slowmo said:
Hilarious that you all think democracy still exists. The illusion of choice works wonders, maybe one day the public will wake up.

The idea of waking up is something that would scare people.  People want to think they have choice in political matters they really don't.



Well considering that the US isn't a democracy in the first place it wasn't that hard. (Its a republic.) People said similar things about NAFTA, etc. I doubt the parts about being able to circumvent laws will pass or be protected by the courts.



richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
ECM said:
Good job putting this guy back in office, Obama voters--he couldn't do this without you.

So, things would be better under Mitt Romney?  Is there some sort of progressive/liberal candidate out there that would actually oppose this, or some nationalistic party on the right who would have a candidate that would give a shot to it?

Really, what would Romney of done differently?

Romney would of been against this.

Republicans are pretty dead set against having anybody having juridicition over the US government.

Both parties have been greenlighting any form of free trade, or barriers to commerce.  Economic interests have superceded any form of individual and sovereign interests in America in Washington's economic policies.  It is in keeping with neo-liberal economic policies.

Not so far in they've given up soverignty.

The number one issue for conservatives have been soverignty.  Heck some bush officials were for leaving the UN.

They wouldn't compromise anything that would allow them to lean on other countries.



Rustuv said:

A corporation (including every employee) is - and am being completely serious- legally A PERSON. except that corporations can never dies.

A corporation can die, when it becomes bankcrupt. Currently many are on life support (government bailouts)



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

its funny republicans bash obama for being republican