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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Counter-opinions: What is bigger. Call of Duty or Mario

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Jaywood2010 on 29 March 2013
MDMAlliance said:
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:
JayWood2010 said:
KHlover said:
Pwned. Maybe that's why JayWood left handhelds out? There's no point in comparing franchises if you leave half of the games out...


I left them out because two different markets.  But yeah if this makes you all happy then more power to you :)


Not really.  In context of the question, it's all the same market.  In terms of how games sell on each you can call them different markets, but ignoring them completely when trying to compare their "sizes" is just... not correct.


No.  What is popular on handhelds is not popular on consoles and vice versa.  JRPG games are more popular on handhelds and FPS's are more popular on consoles.  Same goes to all shooters an western rpgs.  They are two different markets and trends show that.  cinematic stories are for consoles and dialogue stories are for handhels.  Im sure you have heard things such as this would have been better on a console or this would have been better on a handheld./  That is because yes they are different.


You really don't seem to understand this issue.  Let's disect the issue so you can understand it.  Why do you think that certain games are more popular on a mobile device than one you have to keep in one room?  Why do you think some games are preferred to stay in one room rather than taken on the go?  The reason does have to do with the hardware and the nature of how they work, but the market in general doesn't change when you want to talk about those genres specifically in terms of the whole population.  Also if your point was to only compare how much people would play a 2D/3D Mario game to who would play an FPS Call of Duty game on something that stays in one room and connects to your TV, you would need to set fair boundaries on both.  You're letting the same game count more than once when counting CoD.  PS3/360/PC versions are all counting.  If you want to count all of them, you have to count the handheld versions of the Mario games because you're giving an unfair advantage to the CoD series.


As i said before if this helps you all feel better then go ahead.  It is obvious that mario is more popular on handhelds.  Cant be said for consoles though.  It is debatable which is why people are debating it other than a few who are angry 




       

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MDMAlliance on 29 March 2013
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:

Not really.  In context of the question, it's all the same market.  In terms of how games sell on each you can call them different markets, but ignoring them completely when trying to compare their "sizes" is just... not correct.


No.  What is popular on handhelds is not popular on consoles and vice versa.  JRPG games are more popular on handhelds and FPS's are more popular on consoles.  Same goes to all shooters an western rpgs.  They are two different markets and trends show that.  cinematic stories are for consoles and dialogue stories are for handhels.  Im sure you have heard things such as this would have been better on a console or this would have been better on a handheld./  That is because yes they are different.


You really don't seem to understand this issue.  Let's disect the issue so you can understand it.  Why do you think that certain games are more popular on a mobile device than one you have to keep in one room?  Why do you think some games are preferred to stay in one room rather than taken on the go?  The reason does have to do with the hardware and the nature of how they work, but the market in general doesn't change when you want to talk about those genres specifically in terms of the whole population.  Also if your point was to only compare how much people would play a 2D/3D Mario game to who would play an FPS Call of Duty game on something that stays in one room and connects to your TV, you would need to set fair boundaries on both.  You're letting the same game count more than once when counting CoD.  PS3/360/PC versions are all counting.  If you want to count all of them, you have to count the handheld versions of the Mario games because you're giving an unfair advantage to the CoD series.


As i said before if this helps you all feel better then go ahead.  It is obvious that mario is more popular on handhelds.  Cant be said for consoles though.  It is debatable which is why people are debating it other than a few who are angry 


You can say that all platform sales of CoD this generation sold more than the Wii sales of Mario games, but then you can see how it's pretty unfair to make that comparison.  "More popular" is arbitrary to begin with.



Jaywood2010 on 29 March 2013
MDMAlliance said:
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:
JayWood2010 said:
KHlover said:
Pwned. Maybe that's why JayWood left handhelds out? There's no point in comparing franchises if you leave half of the games out...


I left them out because two different markets.  But yeah if this makes you all happy then more power to you :)


Not really.  In context of the question, it's all the same market.  In terms of how games sell on each you can call them different markets, but ignoring them completely when trying to compare their "sizes" is just... not correct.


No.  What is popular on handhelds is not popular on consoles and vice versa.  JRPG games are more popular on handhelds and FPS's are more popular on consoles.  Same goes to all shooters an western rpgs.  They are two different markets and trends show that.  cinematic stories are for consoles and dialogue stories are for handhels.  Im sure you have heard things such as this would have been better on a console or this would have been better on a handheld./  That is because yes they are different.


You really don't seem to understand this issue.  Let's disect the issue so you can understand it.  Why do you think that certain games are more popular on a mobile device than one you have to keep in one room?  Why do you think some games are preferred to stay in one room rather than taken on the go?  The reason does have to do with the hardware and the nature of how they work, but the market in general doesn't change when you want to talk about those genres specifically in terms of the whole population.  Also if your point was to only compare how much people would play a 2D/3D Mario game to who would play an FPS Call of Duty game on something that stays in one room and connects to your TV, you would need to set fair boundaries on both.  You're letting the same game count more than once when counting CoD.  PS3/360/PC versions are all counting.  If you want to count all of them, you have to count the handheld versions of the Mario games because you're giving an unfair advantage to the CoD series.


As i said before if this helps you all feel better then go ahead.  It is obvious that mario is more popular on handhelds.  Cant be said for consoles though.  It is debatable which is why people are debating it other than a few who are angry 


You can say that all platform sales of CoD this generation sold more than the Wii sales of Mario games, but then you can see how it's pretty unfair to make that comparison.  "More popular" is arbitrary to begin with.


SOunds like you are making your own rules.  People have different opinions on the matter




       

MDMAlliance on 29 March 2013
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:

You can say that all platform sales of CoD this generation sold more than the Wii sales of Mario games, but then you can see how it's pretty unfair to make that comparison.  "More popular" is arbitrary to begin with.


SOunds like you are making your own rules.  People have different opinions on the matter


You can't have your own opinion about popularity.  It revolves solely around others.  For example: Who is more popular in America, Osama bin Laden or George Takei?

You can't say "I don't know who George Takei is so I think Osama is more popular." 



Jaywood2010 on 29 March 2013
MDMAlliance said:
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:

You can say that all platform sales of CoD this generation sold more than the Wii sales of Mario games, but then you can see how it's pretty unfair to make that comparison.  "More popular" is arbitrary to begin with.


SOunds like you are making your own rules.  People have different opinions on the matter


You can't have your own opinion about popularity.  It revolves solely around others.  For example: Who is more popular in America, Osama bin Laden or George Takei?

You can't say "I don't know who George Takei is so I think Osama is more popular." 

When i ask specifically if something is more popular on home consoles it is pretty specific.  It's like Michael Phelps. He is more popular in America than the rest of the world.  If i asked the entire world it will recieve different answer rather than me asking if he is more popular in america




       

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Jay520 on 29 March 2013
the_dengle said:
Jay520 said:

Similarly, people may be interested in which IP is bigger on consoles. Mario and CoD are the biggest IPs on console, so it makes sense that people would be interested in who's ultimately the biggest. Sure, you could argue that "its arbitrary because we should compare their presence on every console." And I guess you would be right. But then again, people don't care about CoD on handhelds since its really not a competitor. That's what's wrong with this comparison: its arbitrary and no one's interested in CoD on handhelds because its not really a competitor; so a discussion would be impossible. Just like you would never hear someone shouting "you need to include consoles!" in a Pokemon vs Mario handhelds sales discussion. 

Focusing on this because that's what the issue boils down to. You would absoluteley hear that if people started saying that Pokémon as an IP is bigger or more popular or more profitable than Mario, and bringing merchandising and everything into the conversation... but still not console sales. But that's what the other thread has become, and what it was intended to become, because the title and OP lead it there. And that's why it makes no sense; people are discussing the presence of the larger IP in popular culture and in gaming in general, and they are barred from bringing up half the market.

Why do you think Jaywood essentially showed two numbers and asked, "which is larger, in your opinion?" One number is bigger than the other. That's not an opinion, which means there's nothing to discuss. But by using the word "bigger" and asking for opinions, he is turning the discussion to something other than sales, to presence, to popularity -- things you can't compare while ignoring half the market. It's a slanted comparison. I can't say that Mario is obviously more popular and point to the numbers that clearly demonstrate this without basically having my mouth covered and being told those number don't count because... because I said so. "We're only looking at these numbers I have sectioned off from the others over here."



Well then, if people are discussing the strength of the two IPs overall, then thats a different problem altogether. That's a problem with people reading only the title and ignoring the content of the OP, not with the thread itself. Furthermore, I very much doubt people doubt people are even genuinely discussing the overall sales of each IP. It's more likely that they're just simplifying the discussion so they don't have to keep putting "on consoles" over and over again, which would become redundant. It's clear that whenever says "this game is bigger" they're obviously referring to on consoles. They shouldn't have to keep clarifying that when its obvious what the thread is about. It sounds like you have more of a problem with semantics rather than people geniunely arguing that CoD as a whole is bigger than Mario.

As for your second paragraph....yeah you can use the numbers to argue that Mario is bigger on consoles. In fact, many people are doing that very thing. Mario has an advantage in having the best selling installment, the highest attach rate, all while being exclusive to one console. Look through the thread and you'll see people from both sides raising interesting points about an interesting topic. And again, people shouldn't have to constantly leave a disclaimer saying "oh, and I'm referring to consoles." Not only is it redundant, but the first line of the OP already clarifies this.

And as I said before, if you really have a problem with the thread, why not make a proper thread comparing handhelds and consoles? It's better than adding a thread that even you believe is flawed.

Metrium on 29 March 2013

Lol, I see what you did there,,, :P



 

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MDMAlliance on 29 March 2013
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:

You can say that all platform sales of CoD this generation sold more than the Wii sales of Mario games, but then you can see how it's pretty unfair to make that comparison.  "More popular" is arbitrary to begin with.


SOunds like you are making your own rules.  People have different opinions on the matter


You can't have your own opinion about popularity.  It revolves solely around others.  For example: Who is more popular in America, Osama bin Laden or George Takei?

You can't say "I don't know who George Takei is so I think Osama is more popular." 

When i ask specifically if something is more popular on home consoles it is pretty specific.  It's like Michael Phelps. He is more popular in America than the rest of the world.  If i asked the entire world it will recieve different answer rather than me asking if he is more popular in america


No, it is inherently not very specific.  You're also not comparing two things, but rather trying to look at what's most popular.  Even then, you may be wrong.  In some aspects of the word "popular," it would also have to mean that the acknowledgement of this person is positive.  Do we really KNOW that Michael Phelps is seen more positively at higher rates than he appears to other countries?  The line really blurs even for your question.

Something more similar to the console debate is this: 

Which show is more popular: One Piece or Spongebob?

Then you would be like "Let's only look at One Piece viewership in America, and Spongebob viewership world wide.  Let's only include live feeds because DVDs and recordings are a different market."  Then you come to the conclusion that Spongebob is more popular, currently.



Jaywood2010 on 29 March 2013
MDMAlliance said:
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:

You can say that all platform sales of CoD this generation sold more than the Wii sales of Mario games, but then you can see how it's pretty unfair to make that comparison.  "More popular" is arbitrary to begin with.


SOunds like you are making your own rules.  People have different opinions on the matter


You can't have your own opinion about popularity.  It revolves solely around others.  For example: Who is more popular in America, Osama bin Laden or George Takei?

You can't say "I don't know who George Takei is so I think Osama is more popular." 

When i ask specifically if something is more popular on home consoles it is pretty specific.  It's like Michael Phelps. He is more popular in America than the rest of the world.  If i asked the entire world it will recieve different answer rather than me asking if he is more popular in america


No, it is inherently not very specific.  You're also not comparing two things, but rather trying to look at what's most popular.  Even then, you may be wrong.  In some aspects of the word "popular," it would also have to mean that the acknowledgement of this person is positive.  Do we really KNOW that Michael Phelps is seen more positively at higher rates than he appears to other countries?  The line really blurs even for your question.

Something more similar to the console debate is this: 

Which show is more popular: One Piece or Spongebob?

Then you would be like "Let's only look at One Piece viewership in America, and Spongebob viewership world wide.  Let's only include live feeds because DVDs and recordings are a different market."  Then you come to the conclusion that Spongebob is more popular, currently.


Im going to ask you straight forward and I dont want you to dance around any of these questions ok?

What is more popular in America?  Halo or Monster Hunters?

What is more popular in Japan? Monster Hunters or Halo?

What is more popular?  Halo or Monster Hunters?

What is more popular on home consoles?  Call of Duty of Mario?

What is more popular on handhelds?  Mario or Call of Duty?

Who is more popular in america?  Michael Phelps or Jackie Chan?

Who is more Popular in China?  Jackie Chan or Michael Phelps?

Did your answer come out the same every time?

Now give me your answers.




       

MDMAlliance on 29 March 2013
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:
JayWood2010 said:
MDMAlliance said:

You can say that all platform sales of CoD this generation sold more than the Wii sales of Mario games, but then you can see how it's pretty unfair to make that comparison.  "More popular" is arbitrary to begin with.


SOunds like you are making your own rules.  People have different opinions on the matter


You can't have your own opinion about popularity.  It revolves solely around others.  For example: Who is more popular in America, Osama bin Laden or George Takei?

You can't say "I don't know who George Takei is so I think Osama is more popular." 

When i ask specifically if something is more popular on home consoles it is pretty specific.  It's like Michael Phelps. He is more popular in America than the rest of the world.  If i asked the entire world it will recieve different answer rather than me asking if he is more popular in america


No, it is inherently not very specific.  You're also not comparing two things, but rather trying to look at what's most popular.  Even then, you may be wrong.  In some aspects of the word "popular," it would also have to mean that the acknowledgement of this person is positive.  Do we really KNOW that Michael Phelps is seen more positively at higher rates than he appears to other countries?  The line really blurs even for your question.

Something more similar to the console debate is this: 

Which show is more popular: One Piece or Spongebob?

Then you would be like "Let's only look at One Piece viewership in America, and Spongebob viewership world wide.  Let's only include live feeds because DVDs and recordings are a different market."  Then you come to the conclusion that Spongebob is more popular, currently.


Im going to ask you straight forward and I dont want you to dance around any of these questions ok?

What is more popular in America?  Halo or Monster Hunters?
The believable answer would be Halo
What is more popular in Japan? Monster Hunters or Halo?
Monster Hunter
What is more popular?  Halo or Monster Hunters?
Neither one can be said
What is more popular on home consoles?  Call of Duty of Mario?
Mario, because I said so
What is more popular on handhelds?  Mario or Call of Duty?
Mario
Who is more popular in america?  Michael Phelps or Jackie Chan?
Jackie Chan
Who is more Popular in China?  Jackie Chan or Michael Phelps?
Jackie Chan
Did your answer come out the same every time?
No
Now give me your answers.