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Forums - Nintendo - Don't compare WiiU and GameCube

curl-6 on 28 March 2013
AnthonyW86 said:
curl-6 said:
AnthonyW86 said:
curl-6 said:
Scisca said:

 the casuals are done with home consoles for now.


This is a myth. Just Dance 4 has sold over 5 million since November on Wii alone.


But we're talking hardware sales here. Yes Just Dance 4 sold very well but again that is because alot of people already have a Wii sitting at home somewhere, because so many casuals bought one. Wii-U sales proove that casuals are indeed done with consoles and that the Wii was the exeption of succes not the rule. It was the active style of play that atracted these people in the first place, hence active games like Just Dance sell well.

With Wii-U we're back on the couch again so when it comes to casual appeal, Wii-U is a step back from the Wii.

Jumpin said:

GameCube did have the weakest 3D Mario, Zeldas, Mario Kart, Donkey Kong, and Kirby games. That I agree with.

N64 hade the very best though, and gave us the first Super Smash brothers and Mario party games and all the great Rare titles like Banjo Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Goldeneye. Incredible first and second party support, a $199 launch price tag and that system sold 33 million. And since there is no way Wii-U is going to beat N64 in the software department and faces tougher competition(PS3 and X360 from one side and soon PS4 and Next Xbox from the other) there is little chance that it's going to beat N64 sales.

Wii U is indeed a step back from the Wii in casual appeal, but its low sales don't prove casuals have all moved on, because the console's high price puts it out of the range of the casual market for the moment.

We can't possibly know that yet.

And that price won't change much anytime soon because it's probably the most expensive console Nintendo ever released. And that's a problem, because it can't compete pricewise with the Xbox 360 and PS3 while be very close to those performance wise and the PS4 and next Xbox will technically be much more advanced. The Gamecube was already more affordable and they could cut the price(wich they did). They can't do that with Wii-U(or rather they won't).

But the price will eventually drop, and when it does, it will no longer be so pitched against PS3 and 360 because once it becomes affordable and has Mario Kart and Smash Bros, it will offer something PS3 and 360 -and PS4 and Nextbox- can't. 



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AnthonyW86 on 28 March 2013
curl-6 said:
AnthonyW86 said:
curl-6 said:
AnthonyW86 said:
curl-6 said:
Scisca said:

 the casuals are done with home consoles for now.


This is a myth. Just Dance 4 has sold over 5 million since November on Wii alone.


But we're talking hardware sales here. Yes Just Dance 4 sold very well but again that is because alot of people already have a Wii sitting at home somewhere, because so many casuals bought one. Wii-U sales proove that casuals are indeed done with consoles and that the Wii was the exeption of succes not the rule. It was the active style of play that atracted these people in the first place, hence active games like Just Dance sell well.

With Wii-U we're back on the couch again so when it comes to casual appeal, Wii-U is a step back from the Wii.

Jumpin said:

GameCube did have the weakest 3D Mario, Zeldas, Mario Kart, Donkey Kong, and Kirby games. That I agree with.

N64 hade the very best though, and gave us the first Super Smash brothers and Mario party games and all the great Rare titles like Banjo Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Goldeneye. Incredible first and second party support, a $199 launch price tag and that system sold 33 million. And since there is no way Wii-U is going to beat N64 in the software department and faces tougher competition(PS3 and X360 from one side and soon PS4 and Next Xbox from the other) there is little chance that it's going to beat N64 sales.

Wii U is indeed a step back from the Wii in casual appeal, but its low sales don't prove casuals have all moved on, because the console's high price puts it out of the range of the casual market for the moment.

We can't possibly know that yet.

And that price won't change much anytime soon because it's probably the most expensive console Nintendo ever released. And that's a problem, because it can't compete pricewise with the Xbox 360 and PS3 while be very close to those performance wise and the PS4 and next Xbox will technically be much more advanced. The Gamecube was already more affordable and they could cut the price(wich they did). They can't do that with Wii-U(or rather they won't).

But the price will eventually drop, and when it does, it will no longer be so pitched against PS3 and 360 because once it becomes affordable and has Mario Kart and Smash Bros, it will offer something PS3 and 360 -and PS4 and Nextbox- can't. 

But then again we are right back where we started, being that the Gamecube offered those same games that the competition didn't have, and still wasn't exactly a success. And that thing dropped to $99 in the end, no way Wii-U will ever get close to that price.



curl-6 on 28 March 2013
AnthonyW86 said:
curl-6 said:
AnthonyW86 said:
curl-6 said:
AnthonyW86 said:
curl-6 said:
Scisca said:

 the casuals are done with home consoles for now.


This is a myth. Just Dance 4 has sold over 5 million since November on Wii alone.


But we're talking hardware sales here. Yes Just Dance 4 sold very well but again that is because alot of people already have a Wii sitting at home somewhere, because so many casuals bought one. Wii-U sales proove that casuals are indeed done with consoles and that the Wii was the exeption of succes not the rule. It was the active style of play that atracted these people in the first place, hence active games like Just Dance sell well.

With Wii-U we're back on the couch again so when it comes to casual appeal, Wii-U is a step back from the Wii.

Jumpin said:

GameCube did have the weakest 3D Mario, Zeldas, Mario Kart, Donkey Kong, and Kirby games. That I agree with.

N64 hade the very best though, and gave us the first Super Smash brothers and Mario party games and all the great Rare titles like Banjo Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Goldeneye. Incredible first and second party support, a $199 launch price tag and that system sold 33 million. And since there is no way Wii-U is going to beat N64 in the software department and faces tougher competition(PS3 and X360 from one side and soon PS4 and Next Xbox from the other) there is little chance that it's going to beat N64 sales.

Wii U is indeed a step back from the Wii in casual appeal, but its low sales don't prove casuals have all moved on, because the console's high price puts it out of the range of the casual market for the moment.

We can't possibly know that yet.

And that price won't change much anytime soon because it's probably the most expensive console Nintendo ever released. And that's a problem, because it can't compete pricewise with the Xbox 360 and PS3 while be very close to those performance wise and the PS4 and next Xbox will technically be much more advanced. The Gamecube was already more affordable and they could cut the price(wich they did). They can't do that with Wii-U(or rather they won't).

But the price will eventually drop, and when it does, it will no longer be so pitched against PS3 and 360 because once it becomes affordable and has Mario Kart and Smash Bros, it will offer something PS3 and 360 -and PS4 and Nextbox- can't. 

But then again we are right back where we started, being that the Gamecube offered those same games that the competition didn't have, and still wasn't exactly a success. And that thing dropped to $99 in the end, no way Wii-U will ever get close to that price.

The Gamecube made poor design choices with most of its key franchises that turned away gamers and made the games less accessible; Mario Sunshine being focussed on a spraygun and cleaning graffiti at a tropical resort, Wind Waker being a cartoon, Mario Kart having two characters per kart, Starfox Adventures being on foot with Zelda-lite gameplay, Jungle Beat being built around bongo controls, etc.

Wii U probably won't make the same grave mistake.



TheLastStarFighter on 10 April 2013
Michael-5 said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

People say Mario Sunshine, Zelda: Windwaker, Smash Brothers, Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Metroid Prime and MarioKart DD couldn't sell Gamecube and they were amazing games.  I'm sorry, but they aren't.

First of all Sunshine released years after the GCN released. GCN released with Pikmin, Luigi's Mansion and Super Smash Bros Melee, with Metroid Prime coming a year later. Metroid Prime and Super Smash Bros. Melee are often considered the best games in their respective franchises, they were amazing games.

Well, they may be great games, but I wouldn't know, because I didn't play them and didn't want to.

Then how can you argue that they weren't amazing?

I bought a PS2 instead.  And an XBox.  Metroid Prime may be amazing, but to me it looked weak and boring compared to Halo.

Metroid Prime has the same metascore as Halo, and I would argue is the better game.

Now, when I saw Super Mario Galaxy, Zelda: TP and Wii Sports, I was sold on a Wii in an instant.  The realistic, epic-looking Zelda and the mind-blowing Mario Galaxy were spectacular.

So Metroid Prime and Smash Bros. Melee, games which appeal to adults, are weak and boring, but Twilight Princess, a port, is not?

You do realize that Super Smash Bros. Melee has outsold Twilight Princess on a console which sold about 1/4th as many systems? Melee is over 7 million, Twilight Princess is under it.

When it comes to Wii U, we haven't seen the major titles yet.  I would have every reason to believe that Nintendo has learned what sells and what does not, and Wii U will be receiving Wii-like titles that are system sellers.  The Mario will follow that path of Galaxy and be impressive visually and have an appealing theme.  Mario won't likely be going on vacation again, ever, especially with WiiU sales struggling.  Zelda will likely be a back-to-basics graphical showcase that sucks in core gamers.  No waterguns.  No toons.  As such, the games will likely appeal to a broad audience - the Wii audience - and move systems.

Also, the Gamecube was a purple lunchbox with a legoland controller.

People make fun of the Wii U controller too you know.

I know some of you may have loved it, but most adults and many teens wouldn't touch it, rightly or wrongly.  No amount of good games could sell it.  Wii U is sleek, black (or white) and contemporary looking.  Give it games and people will be happy to have it in their living room.

You're just as niave as they come.


I'm not niave, far from it.  I have a very good grasp of human nature.  I know what people find appealing, and what they don't.  What appears to be the problem is that you and many others in this thread - because of their own passions - can't properly read what I wrote.

-I never said Gamecube games were bad.  They may have been excellent.  I said they didn't have mass draw, which they didn't, because of their themes and styles.  This isn't prime or smash brothers, but rather Mario and Zelda.  Not to mention MarioKart "DoubleDash" which sounds a bit like a spin off, unlike Mario Kart Wii, which sound like a new version of a classic.

-A never said Metroid wasn't better than Halo.  I said it didn't sound or look as cool.  Please try to understand this distinction.

-I don't know why you are comparing Zelda with Smash brothers instead of Zelda with Zelda and Smash with Smash.  I think that would make much more sense but support your point much worse.

-People may mock the Gamepad, but do you honestly, seriously think it - and its system - are as polarizing and childlike as the purple gamecube?  No?  Then why comment on the gamepad?  If you want to actually take a stance and say the WiiU is uglier than Gamecube, go ahead, otherwise what you are saying has no value.  The appearence of the gamecube, it's child-size discs and everything about it scared people from enjoying its games.

I'm sure many Gamecube games were amazing and spectacular.  I'm going to buy WindWaker HD day one because I never played it before and I think I missed something special.

The fact remains that the Gamecube was a very powerful machine that launched late, was colored purple, had child-size discs, was strictly a core game system, didn't play movies like its competitors and had a Mario game where he used a watergun on vacation and had toon link.  The WiiU is a weak 8th gen machine that launched first, looks like an i-device, is colored black or white, has a trendy touchscreen interface, plays Netflix, etc,.  Assuming that Mario's 3D adventure sounds like his next big landmark adventure (and not a vacation) and that the original Zelda U isn't a cartoon, they should have an impact on moving systems.

The approach of Wii U and Gamecube are almost entirely polar opposites on every point.



Rick1331 on 10 April 2013

Was GameCube that bad? I don’t think it was.

There was an attitude at the time (at least in the UK) that PS2 was cool and Nintendo was for kids. To be honest I don’t think that has changed at all - but the Wii drew in a new audience. Sadly that new audience is now tapping away on their smart phones.

GameCube was my first Nintendo system and I remember being told by staff at Game not to bother because PS2 was so much better. Im glad I did my own thing and got the GC anyway. Melee and Wind Waker are 2 of my favourite games plus there were games like Tales of Symphonia which is still one of my favourites.

As for Wii U, yes I do think there are similarities with GC. People don’t seem to know what it is and those that do are waiting for the PS4/XB3 because it’s just not cool to own a Nintendo system – sad but that is the situation. I’m still hopeful Nintendo can pull it around but if the so-called hardcore gamers don’t want a Nintendo console there’s not much Nintendo can do for that audience.



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DieAppleDie on 10 April 2013

If WiiU can achieve even a small percentage of greatness GC had then ill be a very happy man.



oniyide on 10 April 2013
DieAppleDie said:
If WiiU can achieve even a small percentage of greatness GC had then ill be a very happy man.


THIS



zorg1000 on 10 April 2013

Gamecube is my favorite console of all time but its true it didnt appeal to the mass market. It released late, was purple, most of its key franchises changed, at SpaceWorld 2000 they showed off Mario 128 and mature Zelda but instead released Mario on vacation and cartoon Zelda also Star Fox was fighting dinosaurs, Metroid went first person(for the better), Donkey Kong used bongos. Things would have been a lot different if...

2000
-Launch this holiday for $250 in black and silver(take advantage of PS2 shortages)
-switch Perfect Dark and Rogue Squadron from N64 to GC launch titles
-other launch games could include Mario Party, Wave Race, Tony Hawk, Madden, ect...

2001
-throughout the year release Conker, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, Luigi Mansion, Smash Bros
-cut price to $200 (GC and PS2 would have solid lineups and install bases by the time Xbox arrived, which may have made it less popular)

2002
-Dinosaur Planet(not Star Fox), REmake, Zero, Prime
-release Super Mario Galaxy-esque game in place of Sunshine

2003
-release mature Zelda in place of Wind Waker
-New Super Mario Bros and Mario Kart for the holiday

2004
-instead of Donkey Konga release DKC Returns
-have a strong holiday lineup of Prime 2, Resident Evil 4, Star Fox Assault

2005
-now that it had released its standard Mario/Zelda, they could have Sunshine/Wind Waker later in its life cycle.
-release follow up console

If things went this way i could easily see GC selling 40-50 million consoles with Smash, Galaxy, Mario Kart, NSMB all being 10+ million sellers.




When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

TheLastStarFighter on 10 April 2013
zorg1000 said:
Gamecube is my favorite console of all time but its true it didnt appeal to the mass market. It released late, was purple, most of its key franchises changed, at SpaceWorld 2000 they showed off Mario 128 and mature Zelda but instead released Mario on vacation and cartoon Zelda also Star Fox was fighting dinosaurs, Metroid went first person(for the better), Donkey Kong used bongos. Things would have been a lot different if...

2000
-Launch this holiday for $250 in black and silver(take advantage of PS2 shortages)
-switch Perfect Dark and Rogue Squadron from N64 to GC launch titles
-other launch games could include Mario Party, Wave Race, Tony Hawk, Madden, ect...

2001
-throughout the year release Conker, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, Luigi Mansion, Smash Bros
-cut price to $200 (GC and PS2 would have solid lineups and install bases by the time Xbox arrived, which may have made it less popular)

2002
-Dinosaur Planet(not Star Fox), REmake, Zero, Prime
-release Super Mario Galaxy-esque game in place of Sunshine

2003
-release mature Zelda in place of Wind Waker
-New Super Mario Bros and Mario Kart for the holiday

2004
-instead of Donkey Konga release DKC Returns
-have a strong holiday lineup of Prime 2, Resident Evil 4, Star Fox Assault

2005
-now that it had released its standard Mario/Zelda, they could have Sunshine/Wind Waker later in its life cycle.
-release follow up console

If things went this way i could easily see GC selling 40-50 million consoles with Smash, Galaxy, Mario Kart, NSMB all being 10+ million sellers.

Thank you for understanding the point.  So many posts saying Gamecube was wonderful.  All of those posts are off-topic.  The point is not that it didn't play great games, it's that it both the machine and the games were not done in such a way that they would appeal to the mainstream audience.

Your suggestions are good.  I would add that the system needed to play DVD's to compete as well.  GC was in a tough position competing against the PS2 juggernaught, but it also did just about everything wrong as far as image goes.



zorg1000 on 10 April 2013
TheLastStarFighter said:
zorg1000 said:
Gamecube is my favorite console of all time but its true it didnt appeal to the mass market. It released late, was purple, most of its key franchises changed, at SpaceWorld 2000 they showed off Mario 128 and mature Zelda but instead released Mario on vacation and cartoon Zelda also Star Fox was fighting dinosaurs, Metroid went first person(for the better), Donkey Kong used bongos. Things would have been a lot different if...

2000
-Launch this holiday for $250 in black and silver(take advantage of PS2 shortages)
-switch Perfect Dark and Rogue Squadron from N64 to GC launch titles
-other launch games could include Mario Party, Wave Race, Tony Hawk, Madden, ect...

2001
-throughout the year release Conker, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, Luigi Mansion, Smash Bros
-cut price to $200 (GC and PS2 would have solid lineups and install bases by the time Xbox arrived, which may have made it less popular)

2002
-Dinosaur Planet(not Star Fox), REmake, Zero, Prime
-release Super Mario Galaxy-esque game in place of Sunshine

2003
-release mature Zelda in place of Wind Waker
-New Super Mario Bros and Mario Kart for the holiday

2004
-instead of Donkey Konga release DKC Returns
-have a strong holiday lineup of Prime 2, Resident Evil 4, Star Fox Assault

2005
-now that it had released its standard Mario/Zelda, they could have Sunshine/Wind Waker later in its life cycle.
-release follow up console

If things went this way i could easily see GC selling 40-50 million consoles with Smash, Galaxy, Mario Kart, NSMB all being 10+ million sellers.

Thank you for understanding the point.  So many posts saying Gamecube was wonderful.  All of those posts are off-topic.  The point is not that it didn't play great games, it's that it both the machine and the games were not done in such a way that they would appeal to the mainstream audience.

Your suggestions are good.  I would add that the system needed to play DVD's to compete as well.  GC was in a tough position competing against the PS2 juggernaught, but it also did just about everything wrong as far as image goes.

I agree DVDs would have helped but that probably would have increased the price quite a bit. I read that PS2 cost $488 to manufacture at launch (not sure how accurate that is) and i dont see Nintendo being able to take that big of a loss on Gamecube.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.