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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - EDGE 'always on, always connected' Durango SDK leak is real

walsufnir on 21 March 2013
theprof00 said:
walsufnir said:
thranx said:
theprof00 said:

Rolls eyes..
There is a difference between mandatory and optional...and 360 games are a paltry 5-9GBs compared to 50 - 100.

Oh, and not a very clever way to avoid addressing points, sorry.

pc games arent 50-100 gigs yet either so i dont see why the next box games will be

because it helps argumentations why nextbox/ms is bad and sony isn't.

lot of eyerolling today for me. PS3 games ARE. Oh, so what, suddenly all your ports are going to be PC games? (Not like that's any different than it is now)


No, the medium they use is. SOME ps3 games are. And which game is even remotely 100 gigs big?



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thranx on 21 March 2013
theprof00 said:
walsufnir said:
thranx said:
theprof00 said:

Rolls eyes..
There is a difference between mandatory and optional...and 360 games are a paltry 5-9GBs compared to 50 - 100.

Oh, and not a very clever way to avoid addressing points, sorry.

pc games arent 50-100 gigs yet either so i dont see why the next box games will be

because it helps argumentations why nextbox/ms is bad and sony isn't.

lot of eyerolling today for me. PS3 games ARE. Oh, so what, suddenly all your ports are going to be PC games? (Not like that's any different than it is now)


its my understanding some ps3 games are so big due to having the same data on there multiple times for faster load times. A limitation of the bluray drive. How big are games that have mandatory installs for the ps3? hard to find that info in google and I dont own a ps3. For comparison my batman arkham city install on my pc is 16.4551 gigabytes, dead space 2 is 9.333008 and LA Noire is 13.59375



AbbathTheGrim on 21 March 2013
kowenicki said:
AbbathTheGrim said:
kowenicki said:
Tachikoma said:
"It does reveal, however, that all games on Blu-Ray will be installed onto the console’s hard drive, and that play from the optical disc will not be supported."

Let me just spell out why this feature is the way it is, you may think "awesome, that means super fast load times", but in actual fact it means that a console cannot play games from disk, so to play you must install it to the hard drive - this is pretty much how it's going to go down:

New game put in console - console activates game to account, either through disk ID or through provided code with the game (online pass style), once activated whenever the console next goes online, said activation ticket is revoked for use from other consoles, meaning that your specific disk is now only useful if you deleted the installed game and want to reinstall it again.
Activation of game on another console, offline will result in the game working until the moment you take the console online, then the game will be forcibly deactivated and potential for bans.

Essentially, always on, always connected, plus refusal of play from disk gives microsoft complete control over what you play, patching games on the fly without your input, and essentially making used games worthless.


assumption

or its just a natural progression of what the 360 does....

Seems like you won't be disappointed if this come into fruition. Good for you.

I wonder if Gamestop feeble support for the PS4 after its announcement has anything to do with them considering the possibility that this may happen. They could be trying to make pressure on Micro to desist of this, if they actually intend to follow through. A couple of good PR for PS4 is not much, but I guess Gamestop can't do anything beyond that at the moment or maybe in the future. lol Unless they refuse selling Xbox stuff.

have you read any of this thread and the sensible responses or are you reading the op, jumping to conclusions and then sticking your fingers in your ears?


Are YOU reading this thread? I was arguably the first one to question if the article really said anything about blocking used games, lost for some seconds. Nothing is comfirmed, but nothing is denied yet.



Nintendo is selling their IPs to Microsoft and this is true because:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=221391&page=1

walsufnir on 21 March 2013
thranx said:
theprof00 said:
walsufnir said:
thranx said:
theprof00 said:

Rolls eyes..
There is a difference between mandatory and optional...and 360 games are a paltry 5-9GBs compared to 50 - 100.

Oh, and not a very clever way to avoid addressing points, sorry.

pc games arent 50-100 gigs yet either so i dont see why the next box games will be

because it helps argumentations why nextbox/ms is bad and sony isn't.

lot of eyerolling today for me. PS3 games ARE. Oh, so what, suddenly all your ports are going to be PC games? (Not like that's any different than it is now)


its my understanding some ps3 games are so big due to having the same data on there multiple times for faster load times. A limitation of the bluray drive. How big are games that have mandatory installs for the ps3? hard to find that info in google and I dont own a ps3. For comparison my batman arkham city install on my pc is 16.4551 gigabytes, dead space 2 is 9.333008 and LA Noire is 13.59375

And this is with higher resolution textures and other textures in different resolutions. A PC game is of course bigger than a console game.



theprof00 on 21 March 2013
walsufnir said:
theprof00 said:
walsufnir said:
theprof00 said:
Here's the problem s that people seem to be missing.
1) designing for install and designing to run off disc are different, making ports just that much more time consuming.
2) full installs will actually increase both piracy and used game sales as people install and sell.
3) always connected is a slippery slope.
4) hdd information can corrupt.
5) hdds are going to need to be massive, but not like people were against 100gb hdds for 100 $ this past box...
6) kinect is a camera you cannot turn off that microsoft has admitted they track

 

to 1) what? they could easily take the worse way (run off disc) and just port it. where is the difficulty?

to 2) ??? who says that there is no cd-protection? to me it sounds like the way it is now with 360 but install is mandatory.

to 3) it's the same way it is now.

to 4) ehh... ps3 has an hdd, 360 has an hdd, ps4 will have an hdd... what are you trying to say here?

to 5) a point to both ps4 and nextbox.

to 6) just put a towel over it, works with birds, too ;)

1. Right, which will take up extra space. It would be one thing if games were installed, but if they had to be copied, therein lies the problem.
2. So, still putting the game in the system, yet 50 comments already saying "yay, play without the disc".
3. No, it's not, not a single system ever has to be connected in any shape or form.
4. If you install the full game data to a hard drive, you are more likely to run into problems than by running it off the disc, because even tiny amounts of data corrupting can break a game. Worse, hdd game storage allows for lots of hacking opportunities.
5. If you're installing all games mandatorily, then you need a much bigger drive. It is not "a point to both", it's "both will require the same space, and 720 will require more on top of that because it requires hundreds of gigs to be installed." Even a TERABYTE is going to fill up quickly when you're talking BluRays.
6. Well that's certainly one solution.

1. depends and will be seen.

2. oh yes, the amount of comments is definitely supporting your argument ;) nice one.

3. I was referring that the same was said with Wii and 360 before they were released.  

4. So ps3 by now uses partly mandatory installs to HDD but I never heard that it was a big issue that games didn't work properly anymore because of broken HDDs. ODD is the worst they can do: set to break, loud, unbelievably slow due to insane access-times, produce heat. Also HDDs have extra sectors for corrupted sectors. This is not a console problem but a problem with every memory that can be written.

5. Because every game uses 50Gb? Hahaha, no :) It didn't happen to ps3 and it won't happen with nextbox and/or ps4. Some games could be quite big, yes, but I highly doubt that they all get that big. I expect ~20Gb on average (which would be worth ~45 games with 1TB).

1. It's a fundamental fact. There's a difference between an install and a copy. PS3 games do not require copying, but some have installs that copy just a little repetitive data.
2. Sure fine. 720 requires discs, 720 will encourage used games. Pick one.
3. So you're just arguing that this isn't an issue in your opinion. Fine.
4. Again, a difference between installing small amounts of repetitive data, and copying an entire disc. Not to mention the wear that level of use is going to cause.
5 Except 720 is being promoted as a media station, so we'll see how many games that ends up being.



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Mr Khan on 21 March 2013

If indeed true, that's one down. Now we'll just need to wait for the shitstorm from consumers, and see what PS4 is doing.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

TimCliveroller on 21 March 2013

Downplay agenda again and again.



Ex Graphics Whore.

theprof00 on 21 March 2013
walsufnir said:
theprof00 said:
walsufnir said:
thranx said:
theprof00 said:

Rolls eyes..
There is a difference between mandatory and optional...and 360 games are a paltry 5-9GBs compared to 50 - 100.

Oh, and not a very clever way to avoid addressing points, sorry.

pc games arent 50-100 gigs yet either so i dont see why the next box games will be

because it helps argumentations why nextbox/ms is bad and sony isn't.

lot of eyerolling today for me. PS3 games ARE. Oh, so what, suddenly all your ports are going to be PC games? (Not like that's any different than it is now)

No, the medium they use is. SOME ps3 games are. And which game is even remotely 100 gigs big?

Many games on ps3 use uncompressed audio and video and hi-res textures. This is going to be more standard in the future. With some of the games we've seen, expect 50GB games.



JogHurt on 21 March 2013

Post was removed and user was banned for spam

~tads12



walsufnir on 21 March 2013
theprof00 said:
walsufnir said:
theprof00 said:
walsufnir said:
theprof00 said:
Here's the problem s that people seem to be missing.
1) designing for install and designing to run off disc are different, making ports just that much more time consuming.
2) full installs will actually increase both piracy and used game sales as people install and sell.
3) always connected is a slippery slope.
4) hdd information can corrupt.
5) hdds are going to need to be massive, but not like people were against 100gb hdds for 100 $ this past box...
6) kinect is a camera you cannot turn off that microsoft has admitted they track

 

to 1) what? they could easily take the worse way (run off disc) and just port it. where is the difficulty?

to 2) ??? who says that there is no cd-protection? to me it sounds like the way it is now with 360 but install is mandatory.

to 3) it's the same way it is now.

to 4) ehh... ps3 has an hdd, 360 has an hdd, ps4 will have an hdd... what are you trying to say here?

to 5) a point to both ps4 and nextbox.

to 6) just put a towel over it, works with birds, too ;)

1. Right, which will take up extra space. It would be one thing if games were installed, but if they had to be copied, therein lies the problem.
2. So, still putting the game in the system, yet 50 comments already saying "yay, play without the disc".
3. No, it's not, not a single system ever has to be connected in any shape or form.
4. If you install the full game data to a hard drive, you are more likely to run into problems than by running it off the disc, because even tiny amounts of data corrupting can break a game. Worse, hdd game storage allows for lots of hacking opportunities.
5. If you're installing all games mandatorily, then you need a much bigger drive. It is not "a point to both", it's "both will require the same space, and 720 will require more on top of that because it requires hundreds of gigs to be installed." Even a TERABYTE is going to fill up quickly when you're talking BluRays.
6. Well that's certainly one solution.

1. depends and will be seen.

2. oh yes, the amount of comments is definitely supporting your argument ;) nice one.

3. I was referring that the same was said with Wii and 360 before they were released.  

4. So ps3 by now uses partly mandatory installs to HDD but I never heard that it was a big issue that games didn't work properly anymore because of broken HDDs. ODD is the worst they can do: set to break, loud, unbelievably slow due to insane access-times, produce heat. Also HDDs have extra sectors for corrupted sectors. This is not a console problem but a problem with every memory that can be written.

5. Because every game uses 50Gb? Hahaha, no :) It didn't happen to ps3 and it won't happen with nextbox and/or ps4. Some games could be quite big, yes, but I highly doubt that they all get that big. I expect ~20Gb on average (which would be worth ~45 games with 1TB).

1. It's a fundamental fact. There's a difference between an install and a copy. PS3 games do not require copying, but some have installs that copy just a little repetitive data.
2. Sure fine. 720 requires discs, 720 will encourage used games. Pick one.
3. So you're just arguing that this isn't an issue in your opinion. Fine.
4. Again, a difference between installing small amounts of repetitive data, and copying an entire disc. Not to mention the wear that level of use is going to cause.
5 Except 720 is being promoted as a media station, so we'll see how many games that ends up being.


1. There is one but to what positive/negative? And just a little? http://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5-hd-installation-approximately-10gb-in-size/  ~10 gigs. That means with a ps3 slim slim 12 gb you can have GT5 and than hope that no other game will have mandatory install.

2. I don't pick, I'll wait for MS to show.

3. So you're just arguing that this is an issue in your opinion. Fine.

4. It is not "small amounts of data". Also I told about all the disadvantages of ODDs. If you have a different opinion about it, so be it.

5. So what is with this turn again? A try for "it has no games!!"? This has nothing to do with my reply to point 5.

 

Obviously you don't want to argue with the things I said. That's fine, we can quit this talk now.