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Forums - Gaming - It's time to prove gaming PC's are affordable...

RazorDragon on 09 March 2013
Shinobi-san said:
Wow! What a misleading thread. Quite a lot of bullshit being spread in this thread and not to mention how some of the information given is completely out of context.

First off whats with the comparison of current gen PC tech with PS3 and XBOX360???? Last i checked, these consoles released 6 - 7 years ago. Back then YOU ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT BUY A 360 "PC" equivalent for anywhere close to the price. Not even close.

Second the so called affordable PC builds ive seen in this thread are hiding significant costs (given that this is mentioned in OP but its still makes posts misleading). You absolutely can't leave out the OS cost, mouse & keyboard cost, cost to assemble the machine!!! Apparently you can buy PC parts and they put themselves together...HA!

Thirdly these are horrible builds. I think i saw a build for ~$450 at the beginning of the thread. Decent gpu, and decent cpu. Everything else is complete shit. How on earth can you condone a new PC buyer to buy a shitty PSU? Thats ridiculous. Please if you are new to PC building DO NOT FOLLOW ANY OF THE SHIT BUILDS YOU HAVE SEEN IN THIS THREAD. Rather create a new thread and you will get decent input on where to cheap out and where you should not. These builds just seem to throw in a low-mid current gpu and then it gets PS4 power level status somehow magically?

And fourthly, saying "X cpu shits all over the PS4 cpu", or "7770 destroys next box gpu and comes close to ps4" means JACK SHIT. Where are the numbers to back up these claims? Even on the most involved forums people dont claim to know these answers. And how the fuck does anyone know what gpu is in the next xbox? And since when did a 7770 start being on par with a custom designed 7870/7850 hybrid gpu (which NO ONE actually knows all the specs of???)?

Next the complete ignoring of the fact that consoles are designed with the primary function of running games. PC's are not. Developers are given lower level access to the hardware which definitely has a real world advantage. Again, I haven't come across anyone who disagrees with this. Everything is optimised for that specific hardware configuration. Look at the benefits you get when you start tweaking some game settings on a PC now take that same concept to extreme levels.

The seems to be a big misconception here, that when you buy a console you buying some sort of cut down gimped PC. Uhm you not. You buying a games console. These two things are not directly comparable. And if you do decide to compare atleast ATTEMPT TO DO IT RIGHT.

Also the comparisons with the WiiU are even more ridiculous. The gamepad is obviously a big cost for Nintendo when it comes to the WiiU and its exclusive to that system. NO PC WILL EVER HAVE IT (maybe in an extreme case ). So how in the hell are you comparing ? How do we know what cost the gamepad takes up?

Also people speaking about the ps4 as if its old tech...its not. Its quite a significant achievement for an APU design. Look at a massive 7870 gpu...being able to take that power and fit it into an apu design is something remarkable in my opinion. If the PS4 releases at ~400 then that will be great. And you will not be able to buy a FULL PC system (with decent components!) that has all its functionality and surpasses it for the same amount. There's just no way. At least not at the release of the PS4.


Linux has Steam now, so, actually, you can hide the OS cost. If you want to talk about the gamepad, well, you can buy the Razer DeathStalker which has a screen on it for about $250. About the GPU, there are mobile GPUs which pack similar power to desktop ones, except in a much smaller form factor and offer much lower heat and power output.



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Shinobi-san on 09 March 2013
lt_dan_27 said:

We aren't saying it's a surprise that PC's can game better than consoles at this point. We are saying it's stupid that some people think they are incredibly overpriced. Also, what cost to build a PC you? I ordered the parts and put them together myself. That sounds pretty free to me. Don't say that you need expertise. People who put them together like doing it, and it doesn't take that long (last one I built took two hours to build and install everything). I can post a build that is $30 more than a wiiu that would beat or match it's performance, and it has a 500gb hard drive. That price includes windows. Optimization only means so much. It helps, but you can build a pc for almost the same price now that matches it's performance. You can get cheap parts that aren't bad by the way. It's also arguable if you should include a mouse and keyboard. The only person that I know that didn't have a usb mouse and keyboard was my Grandpa. If you look at the  prices right now, it is really well priced. In 8 months, there will probably be a very similarly priced components by then. Yes you are correct about the fact that you won't be able to get a PC with that price per performance on release. If you could, then there would be no advantage to getting a console ever. To be clear, I am definitely getting a PS4 because I love those exclusives. 

Some people in this thread were doing direct comparisons between PS3 and a new PC...so yeah.

PC's are not overpriced but they are expensive. Take into account that the audience who buys consoles will probably not build their own one (i dont see parents, younger kids, older people building their own machine) and the cost increases even more.

My point is you guys are describing the niche situation...you describing something that a very small group of people do. Search the internet for parts, understand what to buy to make it work, then assemble it etc. Uhm WHAT??? I'm sorry but the average person is not doing this....not even tech savy people do this.

And again you doing a direct comparison with the WiiU? Im pretty sure the WiiU's cost is not in the hardware spec (cpu, gpu etc.) its mostly in the gamepad, which kinda explains why its not sold separately (that i know of).

And whats up with this sentence " If you could, then there would be no advantage to getting a console ever." Thats pretty much the problem right there. You see a console as a PC. Its not. There are so many more advantages to a console when it comes to gaming as industry and as a whole. Are you being serious here? Basically what you implying is that the only advantage is the cost saved on internal specs which MOST PEOPLE WHO BUY CONSOLES DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE????? Dude. Get real. Are you living in some sort of internet box? Surely you can see the bigger picture here? Im literally amazed at the comments on here...my only guess is that no1 is really being serious. Oh well.



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Shinobi-san on 09 March 2013
RazorDragon said:


Linux has Steam now, so, actually, you can hide the OS cost. If you want to talk about the gamepad, well, you can buy the Razer DeathStalker which has a screen on it for about $250. About the GPU, there are mobile GPUs which pack similar power to desktop ones, except in a much smaller form factor and offer much lower heat and power output.


You say that like all steam games are natively supported on linux?

Oh great add 250 to the price of that PC now where are with total cost? lol. And not to mention the functionality will not be the same.

Your last point is kinda true. A 7970 mobile edition is pretty much equavalent to a desktop 7870. Which is  approximately whats inside the ps4 (a bit less but really the performance of a 7850 and 7870 are close for the most part).

So yeah you can get PS4 level performance in a laptop. Hmmm i seem to have forgotten the price of laptops with that kinda gpu power though, care to remind me?



Intel Core i7 3770K [3.5GHz]|MSI Big Bang Z77 Mpower|Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1866 2 x 4GB|MSI GeForce GTX 560 ti Twin Frozr 2|OCZ Vertex 4 128GB|Corsair HX750|Cooler Master CM 690II Advanced|

Shinobi-san on 09 March 2013

I'm not some sort of console fanboi trying to say console gaming is the way to go.

But just looking at this thread and how everybody just sort of jumped on the PC bandwagon of how "affordable" it is...was just wrong and needed to be corrected.

People who are reading this thread looking for decent unbiased information, move on. It's threads and opinions like this that are causing people to leave the site. You don't just go around spouting bullshit just cos you on the internet.

Console gaming and PC gaming both have their place. And its precisely because of factors such as price, convenience, ease of entry and a closed platform and ecosytem that creates this divide.



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Mazty on 09 March 2013
Shinobi-san said:
Mazty said:
Shinobi-san said:
...cost to assemble the machine!!! Apparently you can buy PC parts and they put themselves together...HA!


Lolwut. Putting a PC together is rediculously easy. If you pay for someone to do it for you, you have been ripped off. Any 14 yr old with access to youtube could put a PC together if all he had as a screwdriver.

 

wow your ignorance is amazing.

Guys in this thread don't seem to realise how niche PC building is. Im well aware of how easy it is to put together a PC...you dont really need anything apart from the manuals. Even without those you could probably fit together parts just based on how they look. Not really the point.

Console gaming goes waaaaay beyond this. Look at the current gen...~75mil PS3's sold, ~76mil 360's sold, ~100mil wii's sold. Thats a massive audience. Id bet a great deal that the majority of those poeple will NEVER build up their own PC. And even if they could they will choose not to. Say what you want but it is time consuming...and people who are not nerds, working in some IT stream or technology inclined will not attempt it. Its a fact. Buying a console on the other hand?

You cant take cost factors out of the situation that suites you, it doesnt work that way. You need to do the comparisons right. What don't you understand about this? I walk into the shop I buy a console i go home i plug it in it works. You need to use the same analogy for the equavalent PC. Otherwise you not really comparing the same thing. ANd even then you still not comparing the same thing...

My ignorance is amazing that I realise how easy it is to make a PC?

Wut?

The point of this thread is that PC building shouldn't be niche and your comment that you have to factor in the construction is redundant. 20 years ago barely anyone had a mobile phone.Oh my! How times change! 

You order your parts for a PC, construct it when they arrive, job done. What's the issue here? 



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Shinobi-san on 09 March 2013
Mazty said:
Shinobi-san said:
Mazty said:
Shinobi-san said:
...cost to assemble the machine!!! Apparently you can buy PC parts and they put themselves together...HA!


Lolwut. Putting a PC together is rediculously easy. If you pay for someone to do it for you, you have been ripped off. Any 14 yr old with access to youtube could put a PC together if all he had as a screwdriver.

 

wow your ignorance is amazing.

Guys in this thread don't seem to realise how niche PC building is. Im well aware of how easy it is to put together a PC...you dont really need anything apart from the manuals. Even without those you could probably fit together parts just based on how they look. Not really the point.

Console gaming goes waaaaay beyond this. Look at the current gen...~75mil PS3's sold, ~76mil 360's sold, ~100mil wii's sold. Thats a massive audience. Id bet a great deal that the majority of those poeple will NEVER build up their own PC. And even if they could they will choose not to. Say what you want but it is time consuming...and people who are not nerds, working in some IT stream or technology inclined will not attempt it. Its a fact. Buying a console on the other hand?

You cant take cost factors out of the situation that suites you, it doesnt work that way. You need to do the comparisons right. What don't you understand about this? I walk into the shop I buy a console i go home i plug it in it works. You need to use the same analogy for the equavalent PC. Otherwise you not really comparing the same thing. ANd even then you still not comparing the same thing...

My ignorance is amazing that I realise how easy it is to make a PC?

Wut?

The point of this thread is that PC building shouldn't be niche and your comment that you have to factor in the construction is redundant. 20 years ago barely anyone had a mobile phone.Oh my! How times change! 

You order your parts for a PC, construct it when they arrive, job done. What's the issue here? 

Didnt say that it should remain niche...but it will. Oh look now all your comments are redundant -_-

 

 



Intel Core i7 3770K [3.5GHz]|MSI Big Bang Z77 Mpower|Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1866 2 x 4GB|MSI GeForce GTX 560 ti Twin Frozr 2|OCZ Vertex 4 128GB|Corsair HX750|Cooler Master CM 690II Advanced|

Mazty on 09 March 2013
Shinobi-san said:
Mazty said:

My ignorance is amazing that I realise how easy it is to make a PC?

Wut?

The point of this thread is that PC building shouldn't be niche and your comment that you have to factor in the construction is redundant. 20 years ago barely anyone had a mobile phone.Oh my! How times change! 

You order your parts for a PC, construct it when they arrive, job done. What's the issue here? 

Didnt say that it should remain niche...but it will. Oh look now all your comments are redundant -_-

 

Did you use ruins or a crystal ball to come to that conclusion? Over the past few years pc building has increased dramatically and if you look at Piston, it'll become more common place.



lt_dan_27 on 09 March 2013
Shinobi-san said:
Mazty said:
Shinobi-san said:
...cost to assemble the machine!!! Apparently you can buy PC parts and they put themselves together...HA!


Lolwut. Putting a PC together is rediculously easy. If you pay for someone to do it for you, you have been ripped off. Any 14 yr old with access to youtube could put a PC together if all he had as a screwdriver.

 

wow your ignorance is amazing.

Guys in this thread don't seem to realise how niche PC building is. Im well aware of how easy it is to put together a PC...you dont really need anything apart from the manuals. Even without those you could probably fit together parts just based on how they look. Not really the point.

Console gaming goes waaaaay beyond this. Look at the current gen...~75mil PS3's sold, ~76mil 360's sold, ~100mil wii's sold. Thats a massive audience. Id bet a great deal that the majority of those poeple will NEVER build up their own PC. And even if they could they will choose not to. Say what you want but it is time consuming...and people who are not nerds, working in some IT stream or technology inclined will not attempt it. Its a fact. Buying a console on the other hand?

You cant take cost factors out of the situation that suites you, it doesnt work that way. You need to do the comparisons right. What don't you understand about this? I walk into the shop I buy a console i go home i plug it in it works. You need to use the same analogy for the equavalent PC. Otherwise you not really comparing the same thing. ANd even then you still not comparing the same thing...

What the Hell are you talking about? There are still a lot of people that play prebuilt systems. It's their choice to overspend, you can still pay far less. Also, 99.9999% of people build these PC's because it is fun. No one ever said consoles are stupid. It's really annoying to hear that PC's aren't a viable option though. Also I am not in an IT profession. I want to do thing with biology or genetics, and I am a 17 year old. One of my friends started building at like 13 years old. 



Captain_Tom on 09 March 2013
NightDragon83 said:
I think a bigger challenge would be... build a PC using only components and standards circa 2005 that can run the latest games that are available on X360 like Far Cry 3, Crysis 3, Battlefield 3, etc.



While this is possible, the problem is that the current consoles are so outdated that they themselves cannot even really run the current games.  Far Cry 3 on consoles is constantly around 20-25 FPS, and BF3 is 24 players with smaller EVERYTHING.  This generation has just gone on too long.  I think a 6 year gen is far more reasonable.



lt_dan_27 on 09 March 2013
Shinobi-san said:
lt_dan_27 said:

We aren't saying it's a surprise that PC's can game better than consoles at this point. We are saying it's stupid that some people think they are incredibly overpriced. Also, what cost to build a PC you? I ordered the parts and put them together myself. That sounds pretty free to me. Don't say that you need expertise. People who put them together like doing it, and it doesn't take that long (last one I built took two hours to build and install everything). I can post a build that is $30 more than a wiiu that would beat or match it's performance, and it has a 500gb hard drive. That price includes windows. Optimization only means so much. It helps, but you can build a pc for almost the same price now that matches it's performance. You can get cheap parts that aren't bad by the way. It's also arguable if you should include a mouse and keyboard. The only person that I know that didn't have a usb mouse and keyboard was my Grandpa. If you look at the  prices right now, it is really well priced. In 8 months, there will probably be a very similarly priced components by then. Yes you are correct about the fact that you won't be able to get a PC with that price per performance on release. If you could, then there would be no advantage to getting a console ever. To be clear, I am definitely getting a PS4 because I love those exclusives. 

Some people in this thread were doing direct comparisons between PS3 and a new PC...so yeah.

PC's are not overpriced but they are expensive. Take into account that the audience who buys consoles will probably not build their own one (i dont see parents, younger kids, older people building their own machine) and the cost increases even more.

My point is you guys are describing the niche situation...you describing something that a very small group of people do. Search the internet for parts, understand what to buy to make it work, then assemble it etc. Uhm WHAT??? I'm sorry but the average person is not doing this....not even tech savy people do this.

And again you doing a direct comparison with the WiiU? Im pretty sure the WiiU's cost is not in the hardware spec (cpu, gpu etc.) its mostly in the gamepad, which kinda explains why its not sold separately (that i know of).

And whats up with this sentence " If you could, then there would be no advantage to getting a console ever." Thats pretty much the problem right there. You see a console as a PC. Its not. There are so many more advantages to a console when it comes to gaming as industry and as a whole. Are you being serious here? Basically what you implying is that the only advantage is the cost saved on internal specs which MOST PEOPLE WHO BUY CONSOLES DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE????? Dude. Get real. Are you living in some sort of internet box? Surely you can see the bigger picture here? Im literally amazed at the comments on here...my only guess is that no1 is really being serious. Oh well.


Why can't you get that everyone is saying that it is worth it? That's all this thread is saying. You can buy it seperatley, and that game pad is nothing special anyways. I am saying in that sentence that the only real advantage consoles have is they have good price per performance. I don't see how that is hard to get.  Once again a 13 year old can put together a PC, you really don't have to be that tech savy. The only part that is hard is hooking the case buttons to  the motherboard. Also, this can't be to small of a niche market if almost everone knows at least a few people who have built them. You can also notice that there are a lot of websites that are completely dedicated to selling these parts.